IS THIS A BAG OR CLOTH SEAL?

[CKaufman]

I found these about ten feet apart at six inches or so. I also found sixteen silver dimes and around forty wheaties, the earliest dated 1918 at the same site. One side has W.S.B and the other GREENSBORO,NC. They are made of lead and have remnants of an iron wire through them.

 

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[Silver Searcher]

Bags, Bales or Sack seal

SS

 

[ivan salis]

yep their seals. -- salt , sacks of stuff , cloth and such.

 

[CKaufman]

yep their seals. -- salt , sacks of stuff , cloth and such.

How old are they? Are they common finds? Any value?

 

[ivan salis]

that I do not know -- the company name or persons name would of course be the WSB --the bussiness would be in greensboro , nc of course --could be tabacco bales -- cloth, salt or anything transported in bags or bales in bulk . the seals were used to prevent any one snitching a bit of "whatever" out of the bag or bale or cutting a bit of cloth off the end of the bolt of fabric. --- to get into the bag or bale they would have to break the seal .

 

[Breezie]

yep their seals. -- salt , sacks of stuff , cloth and such.

How old are they? Are they common finds? Any value?

They couldn't be any older than 1808 because the city of Greensboro, NC was not established until that time. I think your seals are for COTTON, and they are circa 1828-1833 because Henry Humphreys (the wealthiest man in town)had the first steam-powered Cotton Mill in North Carolina. By 1833 75 looms were in production, and cotton cloth was being exported to neighboring counties and states.

Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Correct me if Im wrong but I dont think they are cloth seals. I always thought the cloth seal was without wire. I think they could be railroad boxcar, meter or anything that would need protection from tampering. The wires have rusted off. Second pic is blurry.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Correct me if Im wrong but I dont think they are cloth seals. I always thought the cloth seal were without wire. I think they could be railroad boxcar, meter or anything that would need protection from tampering. The wires have rusted off.

Quite right BigC..... there Bag, or Bale seals, or as you say for something that would need protecting from tampering

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I thought bag seals look like this.

 

[Breezie]

BCH, yes, they 'could' be (although I think they are cotton seals) RR seals because a railroad was established in 1856, which was used to carry the cotton cloth. All of this is quite interesting because Burlington Industries/Burlington Coat Factory of today was all a direct result of the cotton and railroad during the Victorian times. Breezie

 

[Silver Searcher]

I thought bag seals look like this.

They use the wire through the centre, like the one posted

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21009&cat=131

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I thought bag seals look like this.

They use the wire through the centre, like the one posted

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21009&cat=131

SS

The bulla - a disc with a tunnel from side to side through which a string or wire is passed - became a popular form of seal during the 18th century. It was found to be more versatile than the rivet-type seals hitherto used on cloth, as it could be attached to a wider range of goods, including the bags, bales and sacks in which they were distributed. (quote from link)

OK thanks. Good link and I think that explains it.

So is it like the pictures I posted or something older? I remember having a seal like this on my electric meter first installed in the 60's.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I thought bag seals look like this.

They use the wire through the centre, like the one posted

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21009&cat=131

SS

The bulla - a disc with a tunnel from side to side through which a string or wire is passed - became a popular form of seal during the 18th century. It was found to be more versatile than the rivet-type seals hitherto used on cloth, as it could be attached to a wider range of goods, including the bags, bales and sacks in which they were distributed.

OK thanks. I think that explains it.

Looking at it again, the remainders of the wire, do look heavier than the ones used on bag seals.....so you may be right

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I guess its hard to put a date to it. A side view may help. Apparently they have used these seals for several hundred years.

Maybe the key here is to ID W.S.B. It doesnt sound like a railroad or electric company so maybe you can just ignore anything I said. I ask and I learn.

 

[ivan salis]

the "anti tampering" wire type security type seal is a bit later time frame wize -- which helps a bit but its still got a broad time frame --the letters and town shown would most likely be the best way to age it --if a match bussiness wize can be found -- a company or person WSB -- in GREENSBORO , NC -- as breezie says must be post 1808 since "greensboro" did not exist before then . cotton bale tag would be a good guess being the textile industy and cotton trade in the area

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have saved several US lead seal wire patents if you want to see but without a side view, I cannot tell if they are a match. Here is a database of cloth seals but mostly foreign but maybe worth a look. I agree WSB is the key here. http://ourpasthistory.com/Gallery/bagseals?page=1

 

[CKaufman]

here's a side view. there are 4 holes, 2 on one side and 2 on the other. I did a little research on the web today but couldn't find anything on the initials wsb. the only match was a radio station and i don't think its relevent. also the wire is not braided like the pic posted of the modern one.

 

[ivan salis]

wire thru both holes one going each way one left the other right -- pull snug --then crimp inpressing the seal on it and snip off the excess wire --from the looks of it , i'd say bale type seal wire wraps around the bale holding it tightly

 

[CKaufman]

wire thru both holes one going each way one left the other right -- pull snug --then crimp inpressing the seal on it and snip off the excess wire --from the looks of it , i'd say bale type seal wire wraps around the bale holding it tightly

I think you're right. it looks like the wires had enough tension to pull through part of the seal, if that makes sense.

 

[CKaufman]

yep their seals. -- salt , sacks of stuff , cloth and such.

How old are they? Are they common finds? Any value?

They couldn't be any older than 1808 because the city of Greensboro, NC was not established until that time. I think your seals are for COTTON, and they are circa 1828-1833 because Henry Humphreys (the wealthiest man in town)had the first steam-powered Cotton Mill in North Carolina. By 1833 75 looms were in production, and cotton cloth was being exported to neighboring counties and states.

Breezie

thats interesting because i'm 20 mins from g'boro.