Is The Obvious The Answer?

[Old Silver]

AND! ANOTHER "Maybe"... Drug-dealing Thomas Beale from Kentucky/China as "the source" of the "Willis Treasure" in Kentucky; dunno...

No, that was buried at the start of the Civil War.

 

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[bigscoop]

Doesn't really matter what the exact linguistics and/or circumstances to it all may have been. It just seems rather obvious to me that we have two nearly identical amounts of wealth attached to the exact same name/surname and that there is only a year separating the loss of that wealth and the birth of the other.

 

[ECS]

AND! ANOTHER "Maybe"... Drug-dealing Thomas Beale from Kentucky/China as "the source" of the "Willis Treasure" in Kentucky; dunno...

...or maybe he was the ginseng supplier to Girard, Astor, and Patterson that was traded to China.

 

[ECS]

And you may be 100% correct. But until you produce the thing you require of others (proof), then yours is another one of those unproven theories you mentioned.

I have provided a chain of evidence that influenced the creation of the Beale Papers, though as with everything presented by others concerning the Beale tale, is circumstantial, but at the same time a strong chain of connection.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

In 1816 you have a sensational, nearly earth shattering bankruptcy of a Thomas Beale.
In 1817 you have the narrated beginning to a sensational Thomas Beale treasure mystery.
Can anyone say....."Du."

Curious in all of this are those dates of deposit that correspond with the Adams Onis Treaty, the ten-year term attached to this treaty also matching the ten-year term detailed in the Beale treasure mystery.

Also curious, is Monroe's claim that, through treaties ending with the Adams Onis Treaty, that Adams had finally secured US passage all the way to the Pacific. Really? What passage? How did he know there was a passage?

So let's assume that there was a known passage. Who did we share the Pacific coast with? And what lied straight across the Pacific from this shared western cost? Could it be, say, China? And where did our bankrupt Thomas Beale engage in all of his rich opium business? Uh.....could it be, say, China? And who, above all others did the US want to financially cripple during those important years of those Adam's treaty negotiations? Uh....could it have been the East Indiana Trading Company and the British position in the west? And last but not least, who held a great deal of the loss during that sensational Thomas Beale bankruptcy? Uh....could it have been the East India Trading Company?

If you want to know why our bankrupt Thomas Beale was found floating dead in a river then one really need not look further for an answer.

AND! Who is buried in China...? Maco, China...?

 

[ECS]

AND! Who is buried in China...? Maco, China...?

Thomas Beale - WOW.com

 

[bigscoop]

Anybody taking any bets that this guy's ancestral tree doesn't include Virginia and/or the surrounding regions. Then again I'm not sure just how much publicity the Thomas Beale bankruptcy got in the US but if it got enough then it could just be that the author was playing off of that sensational bankruptcy. But from where I'm sitting the two sure seem to be joined at the hip somehow.

 

[ECS]

I wonder if, perhaps, sometimes the truth behind a tale is far more obvious then we want to allow ourselves to believe? If so then perhaps this is the case with the Beale mystery?

In 1816 a wealthy opium trader named Thomas Beale suffered a sensational bankruptcy, his losses, ironically, nearly equaling the legendary Thomas Beale treasure to the very dime. “Coincidence!”...you say?

As the treasure legend is told, the Thomas Beale party was formed in 1817, this being just one year after the opium trader's sensational bankruptcy. But what if this wasn't a legitimate bankruptcy? What if it had all been pre-arranged and planned?

Now this might all sound too obvious to be true but the reality to the situation is that, well, perhaps it's just too darn obvious for anyone to accept. Basically all it would have required were some planned investments with a few trusted and well organized co-conspirators. From here it would then be a simple matter of turning those investments into hard currency through various shell companies over a period of time. Once this was done all that was left to do was to secretly transfer that hard currency to its prearranged location/locations in the states. And “presto!”....we suddenly have secret deposits being made into a secret vault.

Thomas Beale is said to have lost a fortune in his sensational bankruptcy, the Thomas Beale treasure mystery allegedly harbors this same amount of wealth. Coincidence? The Thomas Beale bankruptcy took place in 1816, the Thomas Beale treasure mystery begins in 1817. How ironic.

Like everyone else over the years I have looked high and low for possible answers to a fantastical treasure tale that quite frankly and quite obviously never took place. There was no mine out west, no trading gold and silver for diamonds in st. Louis and no winter stays in Santa Fe. All of this just being an elaborate cover story for the wealth that was to be distributed later to the deserving.

Of course one will surely argue moot points in defense of the mine's existence even despite the cold hard evidence that such an adventure and mining operation just wasn't possible in 1817-1822. They will also no doubt argue that it would take years to turn illicit gains into hard currencies, which of course isn't true at all when you have wealthy Americans like Girard and Astor on the other end of those illicit deals that the original Thomas Beale was involved in. No doubt that such men could turn a ship full of merchandise into hard currency faster then you can say, “swap”, just as their successful histories illustrate. Odd that these men could still make a fortune while Thomas Beale is allegedly losing his shirt. And who better to run a series of shell companies and phony corporations?

So perhaps we've all been duped by allowing ourselves to believe in the impossibles despite the obvious that has been staring us straight in the face all along? Well, maybe so, but as of today you can sign me up as I think I have suddenly become a believer in the obvious.

What is obvious is that you, my friend, like to create stories behind stories, behind stories, behind stories.
Seems you have placed one two many red herrings on the smoker to be palatable.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What is obvious is that you, my friend, like to create stories behind stories, behind stories, behind stories.
Seems you have placed one two many red herrings on the smoker to be palatable.

AND! It was Robert MORRIS/MORRISS, who suffered "$$$$$ ruin"... NOT Thomas J. Beale of the "Job Print" (aka Beale PAPERS Pamphlet) of 1885...

 

[ECS]

AND! It was Robert MORRIS/MORRISS, who suffered "$$$$$ ruin"... NOT Thomas J. Beale of the "Job Print" (aka Beale PAPERS Pamphlet) of 1885...

But that wouldn't fit this theory! Oh, well, onward to the next theory.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

But that wouldn't fit this theory! Oh, well, onward to the next theory.

YET! RM came up with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to build the WASHINGTON HOTEL in 1823... FACTS!

 

[franklin]

YET! RM came up with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to build the WASHINGTON HOTEL in 1823... FACTS!

Not really facts. Do you have the cost estimate and the construction cost on paper along with the blueprint of the building? I have a photograph of the Washington Hotel and it was there before 1819. Now that is a fact.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Not really facts. Do you have the cost estimate and the construction cost on paper along with the blueprint of the building? I have a photograph of the Washington Hotel and it was there before 1819. Now that is a fact.

NOPE! ONLY the FRANKLIN HOTEL was "up" in Lynchburg, Va; built in 1817... FACT of Lynchburg, Va. HISTORY. Show "pic" of "Washington Hotel, please... THANKS!

 

[franklin]

NOPE! ONLY the FRANKLIN HOTEL was "up" in Lynchburg, Va; built in 1817... FACT of Lynchburg, Va. HISTORY. Show "pic" of "Washington Hotel, please... THANKS!

Sorry Rebel KGC everything written is not the truth except the Holy Bible. Authors make mistakes all the time by copying other author's mistakes.

No I will not post pic of Washington Hotel. I will give you one next time we meet.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

THANKS! Already have "pic" of Washington Hotel, built in 1823; TJB MAY have stayed at RM's Washington House or Washington Inn. ONLY Hotel in Lynchburg, Va. at the "time" of "TJB/RM" was the Franklin Hotel (Samuel Harrison). TJB's letter to RM... May 9th, 1822, "Ever since leaving my comfortable quarters at your HOUSE..."; heh... HOUSE! HOUSE! HOUSE! No HOTEL... didn't EXIST in 1822.

 

[ECS]

Later on, an Otey was the manager of Lynchburg's Washington Hotel.
...and both Ward and Clayton Hart were married to an Otey, and Robert Morris was once in business with an Otey.
...and it was an Otey that shown an iron box with a torn number covered slip of paper to Pauline Innis.

 

[bigscoop]

Later on, an Otey was the manager of Lynchburg's Washington Hotel.
...and both Ward and Clayton Hart were married to an Otey, and Robert Morris was once in business with an Otey.
...and it was an Otey that shown an iron box with a torn number covered slip of paper to Pauline Innis.

So now you believe there was an iron box? Amazing how, depending on the nature of the discussion/conversation, how you allow yourself so much liberty as to what might be true in that narration and what can't be. Some days it's all fiction, other days it isn't all fiction as long as it all remains local to the typical lore and such. You're something else, that's for sure.

 

[ECS]

Bigscoop, all I mentioned is that Pauline Innis was shown an iron box by a member of the Otey family. It is mentioned in her book, "GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE".
Did I post that it was "THE" iron box? No, I did not.
As usual with the Beale story, and as demonstrated in your above post, you take a word, phrase, or reference and create a totally different meaning or story then what was writers intention.
All these defensive retorts are not helping your credibility, nor your current presented all in one theory piecemealed from all your previous "real story behind the Beale story" in the job pamphlet.
As I have stated over and over again, either the Beale story as presented in Ward's copyrighted job pamphlet that is based on the 1822 letters from Beale sent to Robert Morriss is true, or it is a complete work of fiction.
With all your ATERNATIVE story behind the story theories without any true definitive link to Beale or the story in the job pamphlet, it is your tacit agreement that the Beale Papers for all intents and purposes are a work of fiction.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Later on, an Otey was the manager of Lynchburg's Washington Hotel.
...and both Ward and Clayton Hart were married to an Otey, and Robert Morris was once in business with an Otey.
...and it was an Otey that shown an iron box with a torn number covered slip of paper to Pauline Innis.

ALSO later on, Robert MORRIS became manager of the FRANKLIN HOTEL... Robert MORRIS was the FIRST manager of the WASHINGTON HOTEL in 1823.

 

[franklin]

ALSO later on, Robert MORRIS became manager of the FRANKLIN HOTEL... Robert MORRIS was the FIRST manager of the WASHINGTON HOTEL in 1823.

O.K. If all of that is correct how did Robert Morris' wife Sarah Mitchell talk him into signing a ten year lease on the Washington Hotel in 1818? I have a copy of the lease. Also when they laid out "Debtor's Prison" in 1819 how was the Washington Inn mentioned in the boundaries of "Debtor's Prison?"