Interesting Story on Cave Hoard Coins

[divewrecks]

Yeah these are some really great coins. I have been watching them move out on Ebay. Since they came from Acapulco, no doubt they were used in the Manila galleon trade in some aspect. There was a brief description of one of the hills around the city of Acapulco being torn down, or having a big hole gradually blown through it to make the city cooler in Shurtz's Manila galleon book.

Thanks CS. That inspired me to do some research and I found a great Acapulco mule trail reference written by Shurtz in a very old history journal. Also some other stuff to study, including a listing with the name of ships leaving and returning from Manilla around 1730. Note, there was one coin that was a 1731 overstrike of a 1730 coin in the recent sale, assayer F. That is the first 1731 I have seen from that find. From that information I believe that the hoard was hidden or lost in early 1731.

Stan

 

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[cuzcosquirrel]

I think 1730 was the year they lost the Sacra Familia going from Acapulco to Manila.

 

[divewrecks]

I am finding mixed references on the Sacra Familia, most related to an English capture in 1721. Of course there could have been two ships with that name, as I do find mention anyway of a loss in 1730. Do you have more descriptive info on the 1730 loss?

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

I also picked up the 1730 G/F double assayer.

Posted for Sam since he can't figure out his Slackintosh....

Nice coin!

Stan

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thanks Stan, If my mac had spark plugs, I'm sure I would know what to do

 

[divewrecks]

The last of the cave cob auctions that were recently running on Ebay was completed last night and this 1730 (believed by seller to be struck over a "9") assayer R coin started a bidding war that brought 36 bids and ended at $705. It is a pleasing shape and similar to the "R" coin I bought and just received in the mail. I like the hammered "facet" edges most pronounced on the shield side of the coin.

Further visual analysis shows that two opposite sides are "as cast" and the other two are sheared. This would have been cut from a longer "strap" of material that was cast and then sheared into lengths, probably just using a the trained eyeball to get the weight close before a scale check. Mine weighed 26.95g. Since this one was likely a tenth or two overweight, the two sharpest edges were snipped off.

Stan

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Wow $705, Great price Stan, I think more people will be paying attention now, If any more come up for auction.
Sam

 

[divewrecks]

Another was listed today and bought by a bidder using buy-it-now for $225. Nice coin. Assayer's initial a little weak, but I think it is a "G"....Stan

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Here is what I have from the galleon list:

The San Francisco Xavier, lost at sea en route to Acapulco, presumed "beeswax wreck" near Nehalem Oregon.

Nuestra Señora de Begoña, attacked by Anson and Rodgers, escapes, arrives Acapulco 26 January 1710.

Nuestra Señora de la Encarnación y Desengaño, captured by Rogers on Dec. 2nd, 1709 off Baja California.

The Sacra Familia, lost en route, from Acapulco to Manila in Mindoro, 9 or 10 November 1730.

Anson captures the Nuestra Señora de Covadonga, 1743 sailing from Manila to Acapulco at the mouth of the Embocadero.

This is from W. L. Shurtz and Cruikshank's 2006 list.

I may try to reach Cruikshank and see if he can illuminate this any further.

 

[pegleglooker]

bump

 

[divewrecks]

Another cave cob listing. Not as nice as some of the other recent ones....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-Silver-Coin-1730-Mo-G-R_W0QQitemZ290398146639

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Here is one from another recognized land hoard a little further south.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/PANAMA-HOARD-C1629-8-REALE_W0QQitemZ250575812590

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

And here we have a coin from 1730 assayer "R", but this one went down in a wreck instead of being stashed in a cave....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rooswijk-Sunken-Treasure-Mexico-8-Reales-1730-Cob-COA_W0QQitemZ250577425704

Stan

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

My three cobs from the hoard, One has a greenish touch, Must have been at the bottom of the pile.
Enjoy Ossy.

 

[dread]

hi all

my own 1730 Mexico mint squarish cob got it from http://www.sedwickcoins.com/ (so you know its real)
this cob went down with the Rooswijk in 1739 (or 1740 depending)

 

[divewrecks]

Dread, nice assayer R coin from a trusted source....

Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Six more cave hoard coins hit the auction block....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-PHILLIP-V_W0QQitemZ260585520187

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-phillip-V_W0QQitemZ260585517681

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-1730-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged_W0QQitemZ260585515298

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-1729-R-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged_W0QQitemZ260585513806

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-4-Reales-1730-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged_W0QQitemZ260585512394

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-4-Reales-1729-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged_W0QQitemZ260585511411

Stan

 

[Salvor6]

Wow! Wonder how long before the govt raids his house?

 

[divewrecks]

Cave cobs at auction starting at $1 and no reserve....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-4-Reales-1729-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-/260602877372

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-4-Reales-1730-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-/250632624928

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-1730-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-/260602875856

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-phillip-V-/250632623704

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mexico-Cob-8-Reales-Original-Not-Sea-Salvaged-PHILLIP-V-/260602874580

Stan

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Nice one with great date, cross and shield.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1730-Mo-R-Mexic...=260602874580&ps=63&clkid=8275167879501746554