Interesting New Information

[markmar]

Good luck

I've accumulated a list of clues from various sources. Four of them are:

1. Near the mine, perhaps covering the entrance, is a square rock with one elongated corner.
2. Just to one side of the mine is a square rock waist-high.
3. Look for a triangle of Rocks.
4. Three stones by themselves are the key to the mine.

I don't think the peak in the doodle is Weavers Needle. I'll be posting about that later.

GreenBranch

I want to write my opinion about these clues, just to give you a direction in your research.

Clues 1 & 2, are for the Waltz mine residual placer. That rock is to the south from the small mine.

Clue 3, is for a treasure spot which contains gold bars and another gold objects. Crazy Jake was searching for this spot.
Also, this clue is for Polka mine, but in this case the triangle is too small and could be seen only when someone is beside it.
In the treasure case, the mine/cave is at the base of the triangle, almost in the middle, and in Polka case, the triangle is few feet north from the mine.

Clue 4, is a misinterpretation of a clue which was wrote in a map for three Spanish gold caches ( Squaw lady map ), which wrongly was attributed to the LDM clues.

 

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[AZ Gold Hunter]

I found these two rocks below the cave and am very curious to know what they are. I shared these photos with several university geology professors who couldn't identify them. Any geologists in the audience want to give it a shot?

I definitely am not a Geologist but the photos look like Realgar. I haven't found any of that in the Superstition Wilderness but have down around Kearny. Could also be odd looking Cinnabar as well. Seems to orange for that but maybe with sun fading it could be.

Hope this helps

 

[Clay Diggins]

One more thing and then I'll end. I found these two rocks below the cave and am very curious to know what they are. I shared these photos with several university geology professors who couldn't identify them. Any geologists in the audience want to give it a shot?

View attachment 2115805
View attachment 2115807

It looks like the Jasper very commonly found in the volcanic rocks in the Superstitions and elsewhere. I've seen some of that color around First Water and south in the Superstitions.

Geology professors typically teach earth's physical processes. You would be better off asking a Mineralogist to determine the components of any particular rock.

 

[markmar]

Another remark I wanted to tell, is the sketch made by Waltz is not an image from above the shallow cave at his camp, but is from the location that the Military trail turns to the south ( in Holmes route told by Waltz ). Supposedly Rhiney and Julia should reached that spot in regards to follow the next clues to the LDM.

 

[markmar]

Good luck

I want to write my opinion about these clues, just to give you a direction in your research.

Clues 1 & 2, are for the Waltz mine residual placer. That rock is to the south from the small mine.

Clue 3, is for a treasure spot which contains gold bars and another gold objects. Crazy Jake was searching for this spot.
Also, this clue is for Polka mine, but in this case the triangle is too small and could be seen only when someone is beside it.
In the treasure case, the mine/cave is at the base of the triangle, almost in the middle, and in Polka case, the triangle is few feet north from the mine.

Clue 4, is a misinterpretation of a clue which was wrote in a map for three Spanish gold caches ( Squaw lady map ), which wrongly was attributed to the LDM clues.

What I wrote for the clue 3:
A GE image of the Polka mine with the small triangle beside, and a crop of a picture which shows the Horse of Holy Faith with the big triangle above.

 

[Cubfan64]

I definitely am not a Geologist but the photos look like Realgar. I haven't found any of that in the Superstition Wilderness but have down around Kearny. Could also be odd looking Cinnabar as well. Seems to orange for that but maybe with sun fading it could be.

Hope this helps

Not a geologist or mineralogist either, but I've seen samples of Realgar before at rock and mineral shows, and I second your guess - especially for that first rock. There are a few areas in that photo that show some crystal structure imho

 

[GreenBranch]

Marcmar

"I want to write my opinion about these clues, just to give you a direction in your research."

Thank you Marcmar for that valuable information! As I said in my first post I'm a latecomer to this game and need all the help I can get. So while I have your ear (or eyes I guess) can you share any information on the horse-head with the ear laid back? Where was this clue originally given and is there a place I can go to learn more?

Thanks.

GreenBranch

 

[GreenBranch]

Thanks to AZGOLDHUNTER, ClayDiggins and Cubfan64 for the tips on the rocks.

I wanted to share one more thing I learned on my recent trip.

I've always wondered about the statement that Waltz cut Ironwood to cover the mine. Yet Ironwood doesn't grow in the Sups in the upper elevations which I'm sure you all have figured out. But I was struck by the large stands of Manzanita that simply choked the upper ravine. Some of the trees were quite large with thick straight trunks that looked just like smooth shiny rusted iron. Ironwood. Now I know.

 

[GreenBranch]

Markmar

"the sketch made by Waltz is not an image from above the shallow cave at his camp"

Do you think the shallow cave is the same as the hidden camp spoken of in some of the clues?

 

[musician]

@Idahodutch The 4-peaks-clue could have variations from the original source. Assuming that Waltz still thought a lot in german terms, he could have said, the 4 peaks lined up "hintereinander", which translated to "lined up one behind the other" and could easily change to "lined up as one" over the time.
The meaning of "hintereinander" in german is not necessarily a mathematically exact line.
Maybe he didn't care about the missing mountain an spoke of "4 peaks" as the whole group.

But you have a point , if you find many clues and can create a route out of them.

 

[DonaldTrump]

Several months ago, as I thought about all the clues Dutch Hunters have used to find the LDM, I realized that the only one that seems to be directly created by The Dutchman was the Doodle. I figured that if this is truly a view from above the cave adjacent to the mine as Helen Corbin believed, I should be able to find it on Google Earth. After many hours of flying around the Sups, I discovered a landform that I think matches it pretty well, so last week I planned a day trip.
View attachment 2115272

After hiking through some of the most difficult terrain I have ever encountered, and after reaching the spot on Google Earth, this is what I found.

View attachment 2115273

Intrigued, I climbed up the steep route to the right of the cave and once on top, turned around and saw this. A horses head with an ear laid back?

View attachment 2115276

Excited, I hiked over to explore the area but it was getting dark and was forced to turn back and after hiking down by headlamp, I drove out at 2:00 a.m. Seems I never have enough time to devote to these excursions. But I am planning a longer stay in February and hope to have more information to share.

Now I know what you're thinking: Why doesn't he show the Google Earth view of the Doodle? I thought about it very seriously but realized that it might create a mad rush to find the spot by people not prepared to face the terrain and the approaching winter weather. I really don't want anyone to get hurt. So I decided to hold off until I've had a chance to explore the area further and perhaps find a better route.

Until next time, I hope many of you will comment and share your opinions. Politely of course.

GreenBranch

The Lost Dutchman mine is a hoax and doesn't exist. Anyone looking for it is wasting their time as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Idahodutch]

@Idahodutch The 4-peaks-clue could have variations from the original source. Assuming that Waltz still thought a lot in german terms, he could have said, the 4 peaks lined up "hintereinander", which translated to "lined up one behind the other" and could easily change to "lined up as one" over the time.
The meaning of "hintereinander" in german is not necessarily a mathematically exact line.
Maybe he didn't care about the missing mountain an spoke of "4 peaks" as the whole group.

But you have a point , if you find many clues and can create a route out of them.

Musician,
Thanks, I don’t speak German, but in English, the clue seems to describe the view.
The clue is written as part of a series of clues, that definitely speak to following them like one would directions.

Following …. Not creating 🤓😉
Idahodutch

 

[Clay Diggins]

Not a geologist or mineralogist either, but I've seen samples of Realgar before at rock and mineral shows, and I second your guess - especially for that first rock. There are a few areas in that photo that show some crystal structure imho

It should be pretty easy to tell. Realgar is a little harder than talc. You can cut it with your fingernail. It will crush to a powder if you rub your thumb on the mineral (Arsenic Sulfide).
Pictures of Realgar:

Mindat.org

Mindat.org is the world's leading website about minerals and where they come from.

www.mindat.org

 

[GreenBranch]

Repost for Jeff.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Cinnabar (mercury sulfide) taken from a mine on Tortilla Mountain.

 

[Clay Diggins]

That's really bad color. Way too yellow / red.

Fixed that for you.

Try taking your pictures in natural light. The color will be much more accurate.

Pictures of Cinnabar

Mindat.org

Mindat.org is the world's leading website about minerals and where they come from.

www.mindat.org

Cinnabar is also soft enough to cut with a fingernail. Pretty easy to test. Not a mystery.

 

[markmar]

Repost for Jeff.

Someone has to be very careful in handling these specimens. Azdave35 wrote how in his opinion Jim Hatt's demise was a result of his contact with that cinnabar ore he found in the same spot with Matthew's source.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Pure mercury sulfide itself is highly inert even if consumed. It's only elemental mercury that's toxic to mammals. Unless Jim was smelting the ore his exposure was minimal at most.

Learn more about cinnabar:

Cinnabar - Epic Mineral Overview

Cinnabar is bright red mercury sulfide, main ore of mercury and a source of red pigments.

mineralexpert.org

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Someone has to be very careful in handling these specimens. Azdave35 wrote how in his opinion Jim Hatt's demise was a result of his contact with that cinnabar ore he found in the same spot with Matthew's source.

You are correct marker.
The photo I posted here on the right came from the same mine Jim Hatt was involved with. Jim and i took about 50 pounds of cinnabar ore from that mine. The mine is still open and an exposed vein of cinnabar is at the back of that mine. Anyone can visit this mine but it is in rugged country on Tortilla Mountain far off any trail.

The photo here on the left is cinnabar taken from a mine in Nevada. (Not my photo)

 

[markmar]

Another option if cinnabar is toxic at https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/cinnabar.htm