Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Here is a great link "Shawnee History"
http://www.tolatsga.org/shaw.html

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Thought everyone might like this....

 

[Curtis]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Great Stuff!
I was to Indian Old Fields back in March, looking of course for a cache that was supposed to be there. Later I found out that it was a lot bigger area than the roadside marker seemed to indicate. So I would like to go back sometime. On the Shawnee town: (now Portsmouth) I lived in Wheelersburg area for over 30 years and found there are a lot of people in that area (Scioto County)that have huge Indian artifact collections, all private of course. One guy had a collection that would rival any museum, but that was 20 years ago and he was at least 70 back then. Just wonder what happened to his collection. The guy that took me there swore me to secrecy as the collection at that time so worth a mint.
I have a typewritten report from the early 1900s by a doctor that wrote all about and excavated most of the Indian mounds in Portsmouth this was before the science of archeology was official. He describes finding an Indian woman’s remains where she was covered by sheets of the mineral Mica. He also tells of finding out about some boys who got into a mound area site and had been selling a bunch of copper Indian artifacts for scrap! I also read somewhere that they had discovered a mass grave with hundreds of skeletons in it the people who found it were astounded by the numbers of people in it most of which were killed by decapitation.
There is a great book in the Portsmouth Library “A history of Scioto County” that has some really great stuff in it including woodcuts of the way the mounds looked before they were leveled for business/houses.
A lot of stuff happened in the Portsmouth area; even suppose to be some caches of colonial and British guns that were never found.

 

[swiftfan]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Ki, I wonder if the Great Cave they are talking about in the treaty was Mammoth Cave? Am I thinking of the right area?

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Ki, I wonder if the Great Cave they are talking about in the treaty was Mammoth Cave? Am I thinking of the right area?

Swiftfan, after i found this treaty i went and looked through my maps. The cave they are talking about is Mammoth Cave, the Green River runs right through the area. Also i think this is where people in the past have gotten the name great cave and added it in to the Swift legend. The cave Swift used was just called the Shawnee cavern, and the years following this cave became known to Swift buff's as the great cave of the Shawnee, when in actuallity the Shawnee cave is small, compared to Mammoth Cave....Also in the treaty above i think in article 3 Boone mentions Chief Doublehead and his warriors. Chief Doublehead also had and worked a silver mine in southeastern Ky.

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Curtis,
Indian old fields is a huge place, If i can remember correctly were HWY15 runs through the area was the southern most part of the village. The fort there was 200yards by 180yards, the main trading place. Cabins and wigwoms streched two miles north up to around Kiddville. I cant believe no extenive research has been done in this area. If one could get permission this would be an awesome place to research. There are many artifacts still hidden in the ground here, probally lost forever if no search is done soon. Also this place holds a hidden history not known to Kentucky as of yet. I have also heard the story of a cache being burried there somewhere, i think a couple coins was also recoverd some time ago. Curtis if you would like, next spring when the farmers plow the fields you could join me MDing and arrowhead hunting. Great story about Portsmouth its a shame those kids were selling the copper for scrap!

 

[Curtis]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Count me in, it may be better if there are a couple of people or small group approaching the land owners. Maybe we can offer to do some thing for them if they let us search. Any specifics on the coins found not too long ago?

 

[swiftfan]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

I'd like to help too. Let me know if there is anything I can do. I think if there was any caches available, they may be small pockets of stashes from the hunting parties returning to the village.

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

It would be great to have you guys along, im gonna try and figure out some of the more important areas to search, like where the trading center was. sould be all kinds of goodies buried in the ground there.
I dont know much on the coins that was found, could have been coins from other raids on white settlements as well. This village was destroyed in 1754-55 but the Shawnee still lurked around this area for almost 50 years after, Boone tells of many encounters with The shawnee while hunting this area in the 1770's. They did raid alot of early white settlements.

 

[Curtis]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Started checking stuff out about Indian Old Fields and got into my Archaeological survey of Kentucky and on Page 81 found this and other descriptions around the area:


7. A mound and circle at Kentake (Eskippakithiki), about a mile Southeast of Indian Fields Mr. Beckner opened this mound in 1888-87 and discovered a hearth with burned human bones. The circle around the mound contained charred stubs of palisades. East of this site were large numbers of surface artifacts and in the vicinity are many graves. This site is shown on the old Hoeing map and also on the Geological Survey map of 1926.

8. A low mound with rock graves at Holly Springs. This site is now almost entirely obliterated Reported by L. Beckner.

9. Indian Fields. A village on the site of an Indian village from which it derives its name. It was occupied by the Shawnee In rather recent times. Just west of this site the remains of mounds and graves have been reported by Hon. J. V. Swope and residents of the neighborhood report similar evidences of prehistoric occupation for a considerable surrounding area.

If there are mounds and other finds all over the area for over a mile in diameter we could have a really good time looking for all kinds of things...Ki since you are local to it, can you find the Hoeing Map and GS of 1926? That might help some, it could be in the library(Winchester?)...let me know if you can not..my wife works at NKU and I can check out their maps/books.

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Great idea, I'll see what i can dig up on the history of this place. Winchester would be a great place to start, I'll also check out the local libray here in Stanton as well....

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Eskippakithiki going back through history

The Shawnee are comprised of five named divisions: Chillicothe, Hathawekela, Kispogogi, Mequachake, and Piqua. Captin John Smith who arrived in the new world in 1607, refered to the "Chawanocks" as living in Virginia, where they continued in dwindling numbers for some years. That the "Chawanocks" were Shawnee is questionable but "Chawanocks" is very similar to "Sawanwake" a plural name for Shawnee. By 1680 the principle locations of the Shawnee were in the Cumberland valley and along the Savannah river in South Carolina. They had migrated either to the mouth of the Ohio and up the Cumberland and Tennessee rivers, or over the Great Warriors Path southward across Kentucky.

The cumberland river was in fact called the Shawnee river up until the end of the 18th century. When the early French traders came into this area in the 1670's the Shawnee had a principle village on the Cumberland river, near the present-site of Nashville, which had been occupied as early as 1665. On a map in 1684 the main river emptying into the Mississippi from the east is the Casquinampogama (Tennessee) and it has several tributarys including the Wabash and Ohio rivers. The westernmost river to flow into the Tennessee is the "Misseoucipi" (not to be confused with the Mississippi river) and the next river is labeled "Skipaki-cipi".
Between these rivers is the Shawnee village of Cisca, with a path leading to Saint Petro on the coast of Florida and a legend that translates "path by which the Shawnee trade with the Spanish". In 1683 the inhabitants of Cisca and other Shawnee's joined the French at Fort Saint Louis on the Illinois river. On this same map the village of "Mequatchaiki" is situated on the north bank of the Skipakicipi river, probally a village of the "Mequachake division. The Skipakicipi river is undoughtably the Green river, but the identity of the "Misseoucipi is not clear, it's probally the Red River or the Licking river.

In 1707 a southern indian taken captive to Virginia drew a map on which he placed a village called "Ephippeck" (Eskippeck) on the Apalachicola river in the panhandle of Florida. This could be a Shawnee settlement from the group identified with the Skipakicipi river in Kentucky and more possablly the group that later returned to build Eskippakithiki in Clark county, Kentucky. The Shawnee group being the Mequachake, or the Piqua. Kentucky historian Lucien Beckner suggest that the village of Eskippakithiki in Clark county may have been originally settled by a party of those fleeing from the Cumberland river, this may have been the group situated on the Apalachicola river in 1707 who moved north settleing first at present-day Nashville and driven from there to Eskippakithiki by 1718.
Eskippakithiki is a Shawnee word meaning "blue lick place". The village was favorably located near preasent day Winchester on a hill above Lulbegrud creek. The site was as the name implies near a saltlick, which attracted large numbers of animals. It was also situated along the Great Warriors Path the major trail leading from villages in Ohio to the Cumberland river and on to the south. Besides Beckners interpretaion there are many other theories about the origin of this village, but there was apparently no white contact there until 1752.

There was some 3,500 acres of land cleared by the Shawnee in the vicinity of Eskippakithiki, baseing estaments on the time required to deaden and completely remove by burning the great oaks, hickories, sycamores, gums, and maples from such an area, Willard Jillson noted Kentucky historian sets the founding of the village at 1680-1685. Such an early date is very possable in that Shawnee groups escaping the Iroquois down the Great Warriors Path would have passed through this area.
Eskipakithiki is an interesting and important village for the Shawnee. According to Beckner it was originally built by a group or groups belonging to the Mequachake or Piqua divisions, and he believes this to be the village listed in the 1736 census of containing some 200 men. It is certain that Eskippakithiki was home of one of the most famous of the Shawnee chiefs, Cathecassa, better known as Black Hoof. Several sources mention him in relation to this village, and Black Hoof himself claimed to have been born there.
In 1752 a Virginia trader named John Finley was invited by the Shawnee to build a house at Eskippakithiki, but he was forced to flee in 1753 when some French Indians attacked a group of Virginia traders at the village. The village was abandoned in 1754 after the fall of Fort Necessity, and the inhabbatants apparently joined the Shawnee in Ohio, though some may have joined the Cherokee in eastern Tennessee...

There may have been a settlement in eastern Kentucky in the period after the French and Indian war. Historian Jillson places a Shawnee village at the confluence of Big Mud Lick and Little Mud Lick creeks in northern Johnson County from 1764 to 1774. This is the village from which Jenny Wiley is supposed to have made her escape. There are other references to the Shawnee in the vicinity of Big Sandy river as well. One of the most interesting accounts is the tradition of John Swift, who is said to have discovered and worked silver mines with the Shawnee as labors in eastern Kentucky from 1760-1770.
This tradition persistes among the Shawnee as late as 1870, when a decendant of Cornstalk returned to Mud Lick creek in Johnson county in search of silver....

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Here are a couple of maps of the area around the former site of Eskippakithiki.. All the Indian trails seem to run through this area. Swift clearly tells of how they planned to use the trails known to Munday, the two Frenchmen, and the Shawnee that was with them, these would of course been Indian trails that ran through Kentucky. Depending on Swifts route to his mines, either coming in from the north, or south i believe they would have possably passed through this area. Remember Swift tells in his journal --"Munday and the Frenchmen led us to a place where the Indians, he called "Mecca or Mequa" Indians had used as a campground"....

 

[Curtis]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

KI,

I am convinced they used the trails that went Thur that area to get futher north than most people believe. I also want to think the cave of the Shawnee is in between that area and Swaneetow at the mouth of the Scioto River (Portsmouth/South Shore). I am checking out a place this weekend that may have some more of the items Swift mentions...My friend and co-brother-in-law(we married sisters) are checking out a couple of places. He may have found the "french mines" if so it is fitting perfectly with the mines I found as being the Lower Swift mines...and what we are looking for this weekend are the upper mines....it sure does fit! I am pretty excited about this. One of the traces goes with in a mile or so of this place!

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

I strongly agree as well that no matter if they was coming into Kentucky through Pound gap, or the Cumberland gap that they would have passed through this area traveling north to your location. Always look for bent trees, this is how the Indians would mark their paths in a heavy forest.
The key to finding the mines is to find the "furnace rockhouse". In Swift's directions to the mines in his journal, he always starts at the furnace. I found a good story about your location, and it is possable that the mines could be in your area, i wish you the best of luck this weekend, and look forward in seeing what you may find... -Ki-

 

[swiftfan]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

I don't know if there was a trail linking the Pound Gap to Old Fields, but I'll look into it..there would have to be something..

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Swiftfan...
Understanding the old trails used by Indians, early explorers, longhunters, and settlers in our modern times is quite the challenge. The land and waterways have since changed a great deal in the last 250 years and makes retracing these trails rather difficult. The best way ive found locating these old trails is by following some old road ways, and of course history books of Kentucky. We know by reading Swifts journal that Swift was led into Kentucky by Munday, 2 Frenchmen, and several Shawnee Indians and they had planned to use Indian trails known to these men who was with Swift. Now look at Dr. Thomas Walkers, and Gists trip into Kentucky in 1750, these men also used Indian trails that ran through the state, and wrote about them in there journals. Gist's trip in 1750 he mentions Eskippakithiki and labeled it on his map. The trail coming into Ky from Pound Gap, goes through the gap, the trail here goes in a northwest direction to Beattyville, then turns north and follows the Red River to Eskippakithiki, then turns north again going to Ohio.
I'll look more into this myself and see what i can come up with, i also added a picture of the trails Gist and Walker took through Ky. These would of been simalr trails Swift and company would have used. I hope this helps you with your research........ -Ki-

 

[HCA1961]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Great information, Ki! Seriously........good stuff!!

I would be honored to join you in the spring if you put a little trip together. It would be nice to meet you and some of the other Swiftologists! Just tell me when and where.

Thanks again! I love to see this shared information.

HCA1961