Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

[-Ki-]

Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

After a lot of research, Indians play a huge roll before, during, and after Swift mined silver. Indians were not known for mining metals, until just recently...Studies now show Indians not only mined metals such as silver, gold, copper, lead, etc, but smelted and forged as well. This was found by the silver, gold, copper, ornaments at these burial sites. These predate the earliest white men of the area. The Indians considered there burial grounds sacred, as well as there mines sacred grounds. Could be why Swift was attacked so many times., Indians found the white man loved the shinny metal and would trade silver for wampum, riffles, gunpowder, whiskey and other goods the white man brought to trade....
Was looking for some information on the great cave of the Shawnee. History seems to not say much about this place, as it was a secret to the Indians, and also to Swift and crew....
Some info i do know on this subject: It is located close to Swifts principal mines.
This cave goes through the mountain, or cliff, and is claimed by the Shawnee.....It is a place where they buried their dead and would housed many graves. The opening is small as you go in, and then opens up to bigger cambers as you tunnel back through the cave. Suppost to extent from one side of the mountain to the opposite side. It wouldn't be no small cave cause the Shawnee Indians that shows Swift the cave would not have let these men step on the graves of their dead ancestors....
There would be many smaller chambers throughout the cave which swift and crew could have massed a huge storeroom, it is my belief that it might be one of these smaller chamber that would have been walled up with sand, stone and dirt and the silver treasure buried behind the manmade wall.......here are some maps i have that shows the Indian and early pioneer trails and traces.....

 

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[funkman]

Re: Found an Indian Mine (pics included)

sorry don;t know anything about mines or caves...but I do know it looks sweet! Hope you have the best of luck when you decide to explore it. Maybe some copper items will be hiding in there for you.

HH

FUnkman

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

On the first map 1775-1780 You will see the warriors path that comes up through station camp creek and then crossing the Red river, on the Red River you will see Lick creek, this creek has another name today but could have been the creek Swift named Lick creek in his journals? The other trail is the Wilderness road that Boone blazed making way for the later pioneers........

The second map is of mainly Indian trails and very few pioneer trails, i have studied this map and found that where the warriors path crossed the red river, their was another path the Indians used called the warriors fork, this is what the Indians called the Red River. A path went from the main warriors path up the red river trail, up through the north fork of the river, and through the Red River gorge, from here the path made its way through the mountains of Ky to the headwaters of the Sandy River, to where John Creek is located. This could play into the Jenny Wiley story as well!!!. Swift mentions in his journals that a a point at the headwaters of the sandy, that the company split into groups and some worked the northern mines and the others working the lower mines as swift mentioned a group going west a distance and the other group going in a southwest direction. I believie that the group that would have went west could have traveled this trail to the Red River Vally, as well Jenny Wiley traveled this path back home after escaping -Ki-

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Here is a map 1812-1850 If you notice on this map one of the first detailed maps of the area, you will find Swifts Creek on the Red River.......also upper and lower devil's creek in Wolfe Co.

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Those are some nice old maps Ki!

I have dozens myself dating back into the 1800's on Swift areas of interest.

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Thanks SS.... I love the history of how things were..... Man i was born 250 years to late!!! I would have been right beside Swift or Boon, and possably in the furtrade --- aka--- "silvermining" I would love to long hunt, i guess its in my blood....

It is my belief that the Shawnee Cave will be found around or close to one of the Indian trails of that time..... Think about this one a minute, said applys to the mines as well, the Indians knew of and dug ores of metal before the whiteman showed up, it would be their trails that would have ran very near these locations to where the mines were hiddin. At a certain mark, carving or landmark the Indian would know the hidden path to take to the cave or mine.......

SS, have you had any luck locating this cave?? or heard any new storys??

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Ki, unfortunately, just as I was going to look for the "Great Cave", I stumbled upon several other signs and the "vault" and have spent most of my time there and excavating the Rich Mine. The area I had to look in has several dozen old Indian campsites around that I have found and looked very promising. However, as we all know, the entrance it small and will be like finding a needle in a haystack in this laurelly country!

I was born too late as well, I would have loved to have been in the mountains during Swift's time!

 

[truckinbutch]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

We were all born too late . My question is : They had the technology to mine and refine ore into a finished product , yet did not utilize the wheel for transportation or develope refining iron ore . Why were they so specific and confined to bow and arrow / spear technology for sustenance and protection ?
I'm not a naysayer . Just a curious thought that passed my feeble brain .
Jim

 

[cstraiton]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

We were all born too late . My question is : They had the technology to mine and refine ore into a finished product , yet did not utilize the wheel for transportation or develope refining iron ore . Why were they so specific and confined to bow and arrow / spear technology for sustenance and protection ?
I'm not a naysayer . Just a curious thought that passed my feeble brain .
Jim

I'm no expert by no means, but my best guess is that they might have known about the wheel and it's uses, but in an effort to help preserve the secret trails they chose not to use it in transporting ore. Wheels would have left a much easier trail to follow than horses would have left behind. Plus it would look more like the white man had been there to other Indians and possibly caused tension between the tribes. I also think they viewed the ore more useful as something to trade with than raw materials to make something out of. As far as hunting with bows and arrows, I believe that they had a spiritual connection with hunting with bows and arrows. Much like the bow hunters today, they found it more challenging and it gave the animals a fighting chance. It was more about proving your hunting skills and proving how much of a man you really are. Like I said I'm no expert by no means, this is just me throwing out my best guess to your question. I'm sure someone who knows more about Indians and how they lived around here in that time period, could offer a better or more accurate answer.

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

cstraiton, you hit the nail on the head......... The Indians had a culture unlike our own, the land give them life, and everything was used according. The Indian culture was overdone by trading with whites, they laid the bows and arrows down after trade for the rifle, it made hunting much easier, and also helped with their trade of pelts and skins....I'll post some more later on this topic...

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Talking about John Swift...
In 1753 and probably a few years before, he traded with the Indians and was connected with the English fur traders in what is now Ohio.

As a fur trader, he spent much time with the Shawnees, married the daughter of a chief, and fathered a few children. Other accounts have it, though, that his wife was half French and either Shawnee or Wyandott, her father having been the Frenchman.

While trading with the Indians, he was captured by the French, but escaped through the help of two Frenchmen he knew. After his escape, he went to Virginia, and later fought in the Army of Braddock and Washington at Fort Dungannon.

While on Braddock's ill-fated expedition to the French fort, he met and came to know well the following men from North Carolina; James Ireland, Samuel Blackburn, Isaac Campbell, Abram Flint, Harmon Staley, Shadrach Jefferson, and Jonathan Munday. All these men lived about the head of the Yadkin, the South Yadkins, and the Catawba Rivers in North Carolina.

Swift learned about the silver mines from the Indians with whom he traded. The mines had been worked for several years by the French and the Indians. The Indians were Shawnees, although the Cherokee still claimed the area where the mine was.

The first trip we came Mundy got lost. We put out horses on the river called Red. We put them in a place surrounded by clifts and fastened to the entrance with grape vines. We crossed the river to the other side and wandered around all day and came back from Awhere we started from. The next day Mundy said he would go down to the river to the Indian trace. He would know the way then. He went down to the river two or three miles west and found the Indian trail. So we wandered all that day and next. Late in the evening Mundy hollored out, ‘Here is the myrtle thicket. I know the way now.’



early as 1840 John D. Shane, in the "Draper Papers", said that Swift "had considerable mechanical genius, and possessed a knowledge of the art of refining silver". He further explained that Indians took Swift down a river to Maysville and after landing and going over a rich alluvial tract, went into mountains and found the silver ore in a cave, or rock house. Shane further explains in great detail where Swift had his smelter, coined money, hid treasures, and later searched in vain for the mine.

These are just a few theorys on A Swift Indian relation....If Swift did trade with shawnee of the Ky, and ohio, then swift would have known these trails well, and possably used these at one point or time. Just a thought -Ki-

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

So could the clues to the Swift silver mines lie in the shawnee indian history in storys handed down from generation to generation.....




"There were traditions of mythical silver mines, also, in Kentucky. It was the locating of one of these mines on The Red River in Kentucky that brought Blue Jacket and his party to the home of James Galloway, Sr., in 1800. The story of his visit was given to Benjamin Drake by Major James Galloway, Jr., deputy surveyor of Virginia military lands, a banker and large land owner and a well-known writer of that period, under the pseudonym of "Pioneer, Jr." Drake quotes the story here given, in his Life of Tecumseh:

In the spring of 1800, Blue Jacket and another chief whose name I have forgotten, boarded for several weeks at my father’s, in Greene County, at the expense

page 7

of a company of Kentuckians, who engaged Blue Jacket, for a valuable consideration, to show them a great silver mine, which tradition said was known to the Indians as existing on Red River, one of the head branches of the Kentucky. A Mr.

38Ohio Arch. and Hist. Quarterly, 26:114-116.

p 301

OLD CHILLICOTHE

Jonathan Flack, agent of this company, had previously spent several months among the Shawanoes, at their towns and hunting-camps, in order to induce this chief, to show this great treasure. At the time agreed on, ten or twelve of the company came from Kentucky to meet Blue Jacket at my father’s, where a day or two was spent in settling the terms upon which he would accompany them; the crafty chief taking his own time to deliberate on the offers made him, and rising in his demands in proportion to their growing eagerness to possess the knowledge which was to bring untold wealth to all the company. At length the bargain was made; horses, goods and money were given as presents, and the two chiefs with their squaws were escorted in triumph to Kentucky, where they were feasted and caressed in the most flattering manner, and all their wants anticipated and liberally supplied. In due time and with all possible secrecy, they visited the region where this great mine was said to be emboweled in the earth. Here the wily Shawanoe spent some time in seclusion, in order to humble himself by fastings, purifications and pow-wowings with a iew to propitiate the Great Spirit; and to get his permission to disclose the grand secret of the mine. An equivocal answer was all the response that was given to him in his dreams; and, after many days of fruitless toil and careful search, the mine, the great object so devoutly sought and wished for, could not be found. The cunning Blue Jacket, however, extricated himself with much address from the anticipated vengeance of the disappointed worshippers of Plutus, by charging his want of success to his eyes, which were dimmed by reason of his old age; and by promising, on his return home, to send his son whose eyes were young and good, and who knew the desired spot and would show it. The son, however, never visited the scene of his father’s failure; and thus ended the adventures of the celebrated mining company of Kentucky.39"



"When boys, we played about the mystic location of the two round, stone-filled holes he describes. They are near the foot of "the devil’s back-bone," a quite high ridge, with a declivity down to the bank of Massie’s Creek not far from the old King Mill site. The legend of the lost silver mine was one with the legend of Sleepy Hollow to our boyhood imagination."

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

The Warriors' Trace was an old Indian trail that ran from the north, crossed the Ohio River at the mouth of the Scioto, and proceeded along the Licking River through what is now Fleming County, Kentucky. The trail ran through Eskippakithiki, with one branch leading down through the Cumberland Gap. "The French took this trail to trade in the Carolina's and Georgia".

John Goff, in an old newspaper account, states that the buffalo trail, known as the "Warriors Path," ran from Blue Licks to Indian Old Fields. There it divided, one branch going toward the valley lands of Red River, and continuing to the head waters of the Big Sandy(called Warriors Fork, or Red River trail), the other to the Kentucky River and Cumberland Gap.

In 1907 this old path was still plainly discernible in places and could be followed with great accuracy its entire distance. This was the first road in Kentucky.

 

[Curtis]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

God stuff Ki,

Read it in my quest over the past few years...some of it is hard to find...but you are on the right track. I think you are looking at one of his sets of mines maybe the lower ones? Remember Maysville was called Limestone back in Boone's day. In Swifts time it was probably unnamed but later was part of Zane's Trace. It followed the annual buffalo migration to cross the river there. My theory about the upper mines is just a little different than most. I think Swift went more north and west. I think they were on the trace that ended in Limestone. The Indian trace came close to the area near Sand hook(near not thru) and they could have jumped off of it anywhere. One possibility is near Carter Caves, not one but three natural rock bridges there, its rock and rough, and several more items not far from there like a large and small stream that goes underground (remember the sinking springs?) I found several items near there (well 20 miles away) a friend who got me interested found some bullet molds wrapped in bearskin (UK confirmed) on a ledge, a rock with DAS (Desiree Ann Swift) with a date of 1769, the creek following the right directions (this is key!), two monument rocks, a haystack rock, a buffalo rock, a cliff with a hole in it, and on and on.

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Thanks Curtis, I believe one way to unlocking this mystery of the Swift mines is to learn some of the trails Swift could have possably took while operating his Silver Mines, I believe and feel very strongly that Swift would have used some of these Indian trails to penetrate the Ky wilderness.....attached are some pictures of the Red River running through the gorge, along the area of the pictures is the location of an Indian trace....I can only imagine what the Indians and also Swift would have thought about this place....

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Here is GIST's AND Dr. WALKERS route through Ky in 1749-1751..... Gist was a Friend to the Shawnee of the Ohio, and traded with them on occasions..... Swift was also friends with the same Shawnee and could have possable used the same trails Gist did....

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

After conparing the many journals together, they all relate on common aspects. One being the trails Swift used entering and exiting the Kentucky wilderness going to and from his mines, or should i say mine! He mentions 2 places more than others, Alexandra Va. and the Yadikin in North Carolina. From these two points of reference and with the many clues given in Swifts journal, and given the known trails of that era in and around Ky, i was able to recreate using my software a couple possable trails Swift could have used here in Ky. I will however give some basic info on these trails. The first picture is of Dr. Walkers and Gist route through the wild unknown Ky, i have highlighted some possable Swift trails in yellow. Notice both Gist and Walkers paths cross the area of the Red River. It is known that both these men crossed the red river between Claycity, and Stanton. Gist going south, and Walker following the north fork of the Red River back to the headwaters of the big Sandy (which is known as the Red River trail).

The second picture is of the Indian trails of that era, i have added in the names of important places mentioned in the Swift journal. Notice trail 7.... This was the Red River trail, a branch of the Warriors Trace that ran from the Shawnee Indian village of Eskippakithiki, along the Red River, up the north fork through the Red River Gorge, and continuing to the area of the head waters of the Big Sandy. From here the trail ran through pound gap. I must Note that the "wilderness road" was not cut until 1775, 10-15 years after Swifts mining operation......No other trails were known at that time......

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

I was going through some old maps i have, and thought id post this one. Could help someone new to the Swift legend understand the gaps and passes.

Also used by Indians, and early longhunters door way into the "wilderness".... -Ki- ....

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

THANK you, Ki! These maps are VERY useful in MY research... gonna go to Jones Memorial Library, TODAY... to do MORE R & I (Research & Investigation).

 

[-Ki-]

Re: Indians of the Swift era... (Trails & Great Shawnee Cave)

Your very Welcome Rebel....
I have also found these maps to be alot of help
tracking down Some possable Swift and Indian
trails......