✅ SOLVED Indian Chief ???

[2moshers]

The size of a quarter, I found this concave brass piece adorned with the head of an Indian Chief near two Large Cents (1838-1843). Am very curious to see if anyone may know exactly what it may be? Was found in New Jersey. Thanks!View attachment 1482911View attachment 1482912

 

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[Mud Hut]

It looks like it could possibly be a bridle rosette, but not sure 100%. I will check my books tomorrow.. Too tired tonight.

 

[A2coins]

I would agree but ya never know. That is really coolo

 

[jewelerguy]

looks like a broken off loop directly above the head. I would say either a necklace charm or a key fob

 

[Mud Hut]

It looks like it could possibly be a bridle rosette, but not sure 100%. I will check my books tomorrow.. Too tired tonight.

I have not been able to find one that depicts an Indian Chief on it, but I was able to locate some with the same architecture described as being early 19th century.
I have attached a reconstruction showing the attachment points on yours and how the bar probably looked.

 

[gunsil]

I agree with jewelerguy, looks like a broken off piece near the top. I do not see any remnants of a cross bar like a rosette would have.

 

[Mud Hut]

I agree with jewelerguy, looks like a broken off piece near the top. I do not see any remnants of a cross bar like a rosette would have.

Look closely at the back of the original photo. The attachment points are at the 11o'clock and 5o'clock positions. I rotated it and marked them in my post above.

 

[HuntinDog]

I say Pendent...
In the two pics of the front and the back.
At the 1 0'clock position on the front pic you see a broken spot that might have been where a ring for a pendent would have been.
Also on the pic of the back at the 5 0'clock position there is the same broken ring.
If these two spots line up front and back... I say pendent.

 

[Mud Hut]

I say Pendent...
In the two pics of the front and the back.
At the 1 0'clock position on the front pic you see a broken spot that might have been where a ring for a pendent would have been.
Also on the pic of the back at the 5 0'clock position there is the same broken ring.
If these two spots line up front and back... I say pendent.

Always good to have two points of view.

 

[The_Piratess]

Always good to have two points of view.

Congrats on a such a great find!!! That is exactly the first thing that I saw too Mud Hut.

 

[2moshers]

Here are two more photos showing a size comparison and with the broken part at 12o'clock in both. Thanks for the responses. I initially thought pendant but because of the concave shape am not sure?View attachment 1483259 View attachment 1483260

 

[2moshers]

I guess I will mark this as solved with a 50/50 chance of it being a pendant or a bridle rosette. Makes it a little more interesting I'm thinking. Thanks for all of the responses!

 

[Mud Hut]

If it is lead filled, it would not be a pendant.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I agree with Mud Hut. I've seen lots of concave-backed solder-filled horse bridle rosettes (notably including the "Intertwined USA" rosette), but I've never seen a concave-backed solder-filled brooch or pendant.

In my opinion, it is most likely from the early-1800s.

 

[HuntinDog]

2Moshers,
Your two attachments didn't show up for me.
Does your piece only have one broken spot on the edge or does it have two opposing broken spots??

Cannonball,
The back doesn't look like it is lead filled to me.
And I don't see the tell tale rust spots from the rosette bar.
It looks more like plated cast pot metal.

I still say pendent.
But as it has been said... always good to have two points of view.
It won't be the last time I'm wrong...

 

[2moshers]

Hard to tell as is very worn but looks like 2 opposing spots but then again maybe not? So is it solder-filled brass or plated cast pot metal? Also what caused the pockmarks and are they related to either? Also what might the blue material be in the head dress?

 

[nhbenz]

Probably too small to have been set up as a bolo tie? But I thought it odd how similarly patterned the enamel part was to this more modern one:
That photo is from the listing below... I just wondered if it were loosely copying an old one: https://www.etsy.com/listing/255178...rch_query=indian chief bolo&ref=sr_gallery_36

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Nhbenz, I think you've pretty much solved this one. The emblem on your Etsy find looks like a VERY-nearly-exact match to me. The very slight difference in the enameling can be attributed to hand-painting the rnamel. Also, seeing 2moshers' find next to a quarter in the new photos causes me to drop my assertion that it is a rosette (horse-harness emblem). Never seen an actual rosette that's even close to that small.

I figured it was a solder-filled brass shell because the corrosion visible on the back of the tabs is like the solder corrosion I've seen on rosettes and buckles, etc, AND because the corrosion on the back of the semicircular "tabs" around the object's emblem didn't eat into the smoothly circular edge of the tabs... which suggests that the object's exterior surface is made of a harder (or more corrosion-resistant) metal than the filler-metal. But again from examining the new photos, I see some of the same kind of corrosion on the object's front, at the bottom of the emblem's circular border. So I now agree with HuntinDog... it appears to be made of plated cast potmetal. Good call, HuntinDog.

 

[2moshers]

Wow! What a likeness (nhbenz). Is plated cast pot metal on the heavy side (TheCannonballGuy) as the Indian Chief 'pendant' has a heavy feel to it for its size? Also would it still date to the early 19th century? Again it was found near 2 Large Cents. Might help if we could identify the tribe of the Indian Chief. Again thanks to all for your persistent help. Looks like pendant is now the only answer.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The weight of "potmetal" depends on what kinds of metal are contained in it. The name potmetal comes from the practice of tossing various kinds of leftover metal scraps into the melting-pot. Being a "recycling product" it is impure and cheaper than almost every other metal except iron. It is used to make cheap-quality objects, such as "souvenir" belt-buckles and trinkets. It tends to be quite brittle, instead of being "bend-able," breaking much more easily than other metals. If potmetal contains a lot of tin, it will be lighter than average. If it contains a lot of lead, it will be heavier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

I'm genuinely sorry to have to disappoint you, but... being made of potmetal AND its emblem being VERY-nearly-exactly identical to the modern-made bolo tie clasp posted by nhbenz, I'm reasonably sure your find was made during the latter part of the 20th-Century.