In Middle Of Cancer Treatment Woman Loses Her Insurance

[Chadeaux]

...bomb.

Word association: military industrial complex.

I have never argued for Obamacare. Check all my posts. I've argued against incorrect social interpretations, hypocrisy, and ultra-conservatism (American fascism) generally. Personally, I think health care needs an overhaul on the preventative side, as well as on the corporate side. Sure, insurance for the poor is important, but I'd have done it differently than the ACA.

What you, Dave44, and TH don't seem to realize is the irony of the ultra-conservative stance. You move farther and farther right, and then call me a leftist. (People! I voted Romney for heaven's sake!)

You approve of socialist programs calling them "patriotic" when they benefit you and yours, and you call them evil "communism" (and other misnomers) when they don't benefit you. You care more about the money in your pocket than you care for the poor--and you toss red herrings everywhere to try and distract people from that fact.

(PS, Chadeaux, you can dispense with the insults.)

Just following your lead ... I see you are pretty liberal with those insult thingies when it fits your agenda.

The ONLY socialized medicine being discussed here is the abomination foisted upon us by our president and his minions.

As far as moving farther and farther to the right, nope. I've actually moved a bit to the LEFT of where I was 10 years ago. Maybe age is getting to me, IDK.

What I won't do is peg to the left as some here, including you, seem to want to see as the "norm" of people here in this country.

I believe that CHARITY is wonderful, and when I had money, that is where I felt it was best spent ... not paying more in taxes or buying more toys.

BTW, which desert are you from?

 

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[Ammonhotep]

Just following your lead ... I see you are pretty liberal with those insult thingies when it fits your agenda.

The ONLY socialized medicine being discussed here is the abomination foisted upon us by our president and his minions.

As far as moving farther and farther to the right, nope. I've actually moved a bit to the LEFT of where I was 10 years ago. Maybe age is getting to me, IDK.

What I won't do is peg to the left as some here, including you, seem to want to see as the "norm" of people here in this country.

I believe that CHARITY is wonderful, and when I had money, that is where I felt it was best spent ... not paying more in taxes or buying more toys.

BTW, which desert are you from?

I've attacked ideas and ideologies. If you took offense because you associate with those ideas or ideologies, that's your choice (really, it's a choice). You, however, spoke insultingly directly to me. You could at least have been creative and kept in on topic: "I know you'd have taken your meds if you hadn't lost your health insurance!"

You're welcome for the help. Please feel free to use that one in the future.

When the ultra-conservatives attempt to insult "my" ideology, I just laugh. I've been attributed with all kinds of beliefs I don't and have never held. They all seem to think I'm a leftist, especially Dave44. That guy! If people cared what I thought, they'd read all my past posts ... but they don't.

Mostly I'm just here to be entertained by radical, ad hominem expressions of conservativism. I don't actually expect other than the norm: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Feel free to reread my signature now. It's relevant.

 

[Chadeaux]

I've attacked ideas and ideologies. If you took offense because you associate with those ideas or ideologies, that's your choice (really, it's a choice). You, however, spoke insultingly directly too me. You could at least have been creative and kept in on topic: "I know you'd have taken your meds if you hadn't lost your health insurance!"

You're welcome for the help. Please feel free to use that one in the future.

When the ultra-conservatives attempt to insult "my" ideology, I just laugh. You guys all seem to think I'm a leftist, especially Dave44. That guy! If you cared what I thought, you'd read all my past posts ... but you don't.

Mostly I'm just here to be entertained by radical, ad hominem expressions of conservativism. I don't actually expect other than the norm: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Feel free to reread my signature now. It's relevant.

Oh, I've read and replied to your comments before. I guess you fashion yourself to be like unto the person C.S. Lewis was describing. Those who see themselves in that way almost exclusively lean left.

From experience, those who wish to promote socialism only want it for the masses. Just like Stalin, they preach socialism for the masses, but believe they should live as royalty. How is that different from your description of capitalism?

Now, your view of capitalism is apparently where the problem is. Likely, you've either lived a life of privilege in one of those countries or are bitter because you can't succeed personally in a capitalistic world where you have to produce to keep a job.

 

[Ammonhotep]

Oh, I've read and replied to your comments before. I guess you fashion yourself to be like unto the person C.S. Lewis was describing. Those who see themselves in that way almost exclusively lean left.

From experience, those who wish to promote socialism only want it for the masses. Just like Stalin, they preach socialism for the masses, but believe they should live as royalty. How is that different from your description of capitalism?

Now, your view of capitalism is apparently where the problem is. Likely, you've either lived a life of privilege in one of those countries or are bitter because you can't succeed personally in a capitalistic world where you have to produce to keep a job.

Wow, I love these assumptions!

I'll tell you about myself, but you won't believe me. I grew up in a deeply religious family (still are) where my father was laid off 5 times. We had to move several times. We always scrimped and saved. I worked hard to get my education (including two masters degrees and two foreign languages), but I chose to work as a school teacher. I've seen much of the world and lived nearly 7 years abroad. I love America. Last year I gave away 30% of my salary and never give less than 10%, even when I'm struggling. I've started two nonprofit orgs. I left elementary teaching last year and decided to start a business, which is what I'm presently doing.

How's that matching up?

Although I think Obamacare is a mess, I'm willing to pay more because I value others' health. Perhaps due in part to my education, I can clearly see the long-term benefits to having a healthy and productive population of Americans. One minute people accuse me of being pro-redistribution (which I'm not), the next you accuse me of elitism, while its the conservatives who want tax breaks for the rich in a nation with an ever-increasing income distribution!

You guys just keep the ironies coming! The cognitive dissonance must be killing you guys!

 

[Chadeaux]

Was a comment on what I have seen in my lifetime. With very few exceptions, the person spouting those socialist views falls into one of those two categories.

I have no problem with paying taxes for services such as police, fire, etc. These provide for the COMMON GOOD of the entire community.

I applaud your willingness to give to charity, most folks won't..

Zerocare is socialism.

The problem with Zerocare is that PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET TREATMENT, WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET TREATMENT UNDER ZEROCARE.

I've spoken with someone who is in Hospital management. I asked a simple question: "Once Obamacare goes into effect, will you still be required to accept all who show up in the emergency room ... even if they owe you money?" Their answer was a simple no. If a poor person does not pay their last emergency room bill, because they could not afford the insurance and are one of the 7-30 million who will not be able to get Zerocare, you WILL be denied treatment.

Presently, if a hospital or clinic receives "federal funds" they cannot deny treatment to anyone. If that person has no money, the federal government uses our money to pay for it.

Zerocare is NOT healthcare. It is insurance. By its nature, SOMEONE is going to make some serious money from this scam. Most confidence schemes make someone very wealthy, and not always who you would expect.

If a single mother has to take one of the "Bronze Plans" under Zerocare, how is she going to pay the $6,000.00 + deductible? Simple answer is, she can't. When she can't pay, and the insurance won't pay until after she does, she and her children will be unable to receive treatment until the old bills get paid.

Elitists come in capitalistic societies and socialistic societies as well as communistic societies.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I reiterate, no government has the right to tell free citizens what insurance they must buy or put their hands in our pockets to pay for someone else's insurance.

They sure as heck do not have the right to force citizens to buy insurance they will never ever need. I have no intention of being the first man in history to become pregnant and I highly doubt my wife will ever need to have prostate cancer surgery....




We will NOT go quitely into the night!

 

[Mad Machinist]

Since I can't figure out the multi- quote thing, here goes.

OB,

You posted:

The two insurers were also operating at a tax disadvantage in the state. As California Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones explained, “One of the factors I believe contributed to this decision….is the special tax break that California law gives to Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield, which has allowed and continues to allow those two companies to avoid paying $100 million in state taxes a year.” “Aetna and United Healthcare don’t get the special tax break provided to Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield, and so they faced a major competitive disadvantage in California.”

Last I checked CA had a rather LIBERAL government. So why are some companies getting a "special" tax break when others are not? Like corporate capitalism much?

Crispin,

You posted:

United Health is lousy insurance to begin with. For those of you wondering why they just don't take out the gallbladder...Stage four has mets. Odd to begin with...one does not see a whole lot of gallbladder cancer.

I have United. And they just paid for a $50K chopper ride for my daughter because she reacted rather badly to prescribed medication. Maybe you need to read what your actually paying for. I carry the EPO plan because of my children.


Ammo,

You posted:

Being killed by cancer or by capitalism?

Old Bookaroo nails it again.

Not even close. Right now your so far out in left field, your not even on the field.



Actually I can't do the rest right now. There is too much "stupid" flying around.

 

[Dave44]

Wow, if you miss a few days you can get bashed in every post! Is it love?

 

[UncleMatt]

Here's the reality ...

No conservative has yet admitted this fact: if the insurer wanted to keep the lady, to help her, they would do it!

The simple fact, however, is that they booted her because she's not profitable. Did Obamacare make her unprofitable? No. What made her unprofitable? It's the high cost of medical care. Why is it so costly? Because corporations have a captive market. They don't have to charge outrageous prices. They do it because they can.

They do it because they care more about money than about the health of American citizens.

I'll quench the "but R&D" counter-argument right now: other corporations in other countries are doing just fine recouping their RD at lower prices than in the US. In addition, many of the most profitable privately held patents were in part (or whole) developed via publicly funded National Institutes of Health!

Sure, obamacare has a LONG way to go before it'll work like it's supposed to. I mean ... wow, that website debacle! Yet all conservatives keep bringing to the table are anecdotes. Those anecdotes only prove one thing: conservatives hold the same values as the businesses and the insurers.

Those "values" are simply that they could care less about others as long as their bottom line doesn't change for the worse.

Great post!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Government has no right to force cancelation of citizens current insurance and to force a citizen to buy inferior socialist insurance they don't want or need, they have no right to put their hand in our pockets to take money we earned to pay for someone else's insurance.

They have no right to force men to buy insurance that includes coverage for pregnancies nor women for prostate cancer.

Liberals who want to live in a socialist society are free to move to one.


We will NOT go quitely into the night!

 

[UncleMatt]

Just like conservatives are free to move to countries where taxes, religion, etc. are done the way they like.

You are free to have an opinion about what role you think government should play, but then so does everyone else as well. Conservative opinions are not the only correct opinions by default. People have one vote with which to promote their perspective. When you don't have enough votes to win, you lose, and so does your perspective.

If that is a problem for someone, they need to move to a country where their perspectives are forced on others, since they are unable to accept living in a free democratic society where their perspective is not always going to carry the day. If you can't accept election or legislative losses, you won't be very happy living in the USA, whether you are from the right or the left. Democracy requires losers to accept defeat.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Matt this country was not founded on socialism, that is a foreign disease brought to our shores that some have decided to embrace and betray the principles and ideals that this country was founded on.

America was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not a socialist state...

It has nothing to do with legislative losses, it has everything to do with betrayal of our Constitution and our founding principles...... It has everything to do with betrayal of an oath of office, of betrayal against American citizens and their rights as guaranteed by our Constitution.





We will NOT go quitely into the night!

 

[UncleMatt]

The word socialism appeared nowhere in my post. That was not an element of my post in any way at all. Responding with things I did not even say is not really valid. My statement was very clear, and applies to everyone equally in our country.

And while I support capitalism, I also acknowledge that word appears nowhere in our Constitution...

 

[Chadeaux]

Just like conservatives are free to move to countries where taxes, religion, etc. are done the way they like.

You are free to have an opinion about what role you think government should play, but then so does everyone else as well. Conservative opinions are not the only correct opinions by default. People have one vote with which to promote their perspective. When you don't have enough votes to win, you lose, and so does your perspective.

If that is a problem for someone, they need to move to a country where their perspectives are forced on others, since they are unable to accept living in a free democratic society where their perspective is not always going to carry the day. If you can't accept election or legislative losses, you won't be very happy living in the USA, whether you are from the right or the left. Democracy requires losers to accept defeat.

No, this country was founded on FREEDOM, and NOT TAXATION. In fact, a rebellion against "TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION" happened here in the 1770's.

You know, it was that big thing called THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR where we kicked King George in the backside and sent his troops scurrying home.

We created documents to protect those freedoms that MEN FOUGHT FOR AND DIED FOR. You know, the very ones that Barack Obama hates ... the Constitution and Bill of Rights along with the Declaration of Independence.

Everything we see going on with healthcare is in opposition to those documents.

I'm beginning to see that Thomas Jefferson was right when he said: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure."

 

[Chadeaux]

The word socialism appeared nowhere in my post. That was not an element of my post in any way at all. Responding with things I did not even say is not really valid. My statement was very clear, and applies to everyone equally in our country.

And while I support capitalism, I also acknowledge that word appears nowhere in our Constitution...

No the word did not issue forth in your post but the sentiment surely did

Just like conservatives are free to move to countries where taxes, religion, etc. are done the way they like.

To even imply that persons who love the freedoms afforded under our founding doctrines should leave is an inflamatory statement!

 

[UncleMatt]

No, this country was founded on FREEDOM, and NOT TAXATION. In fact, a rebellion against "TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION" happened here in the 1770's.

You know, it was that big thing called THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR where we kicked King George in the backside and sent his troops scurrying home.

We created documents to protect those freedoms that MEN FOUGHT FOR AND DIED FOR. You know, the very ones that Barack Obama hates ... the Constitution and Bill of Rights along with the Declaration of Independence.

Everything we see going on with healthcare is in opposition to those documents.

I'm beginning to see that Thomas Jefferson was right when he said: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure."

Once again, I made no such statements in my posts. Try responding to what is actually posted by people. I did not say our country was based on taxation, that came from you!

And another thing, every time you respond to someone is not an occasion when you need to try to re-state every right wing talking point you want to promote. I made specific comments about specific topics. If you have opinions to express unrelated to those things, why would you quote my post as a starting point for your rants?

 

[UncleMatt]

No the word did not issue forth in your post but the sentiment surely did



To even imply that persons who love the freedoms afforded under our founding doctrines should leave is an inflamatory statement!

Not that I said anything like that whatsoever, but what I posted is simply an opinion you do not share. None of the dramatic, overblown stuff you attempted to attribute to it is involved. And you don't get to insert things with any validity into what people post, and then pretend you had a leg to stand on for doing so. Keep your mind reading conclusions to yourself, what I post is meant to be taken at face value with no self-serving interpretations needed from anyone. Address what is posted, not what you decide I must have meant.

 

[Chadeaux]

Uncle Matt, read my post again. You will see that I explained why it was said.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/s...-woman-loses-her-insurance-3.html#post3687641

Read it in context and you will understand where my understanding of your post comes from. No need for constitutionally minded people to leave, but that is your insinuation. Therefore, my answer as well as Treasure Hunter's answer to you.

If that wasn't what you meant, then perhaps you need to reconsider what and how you write as that is what your post implied.

TH said: "Liberals who want to live in a socialist society are free to move to one" to which you replied: "Just like conservatives are free to move to countries where taxes, religion, etc. are done the way they like."

Now, if there is anything missing here, it is the understanding that we know Liberals don't like the Constitution ("It's a document of negative freedoms" Barack Hussein Obama on NPR), the Bill of Rights (you would love to see that pesky document disappear) or the Declaration of Independence (you would probably like to bow at the feet of the Tyrant in the white house today). Therefore, your statement implies that anyone who does, should leave.

Those documents are POSITIVE FREEDOMS guaranteed to us in these United States. If you don't agree with those documents, then YOU are part of the problem and may leave.

 

[JunkShopFiddler]

Okay, all you fine folks, I have a question...No college education for me, no degrees or even tech schooling, ("Mongol only pawn in game of life")...I'm pushing 60 and have health problems of my own, I struggle every day to get out of bed and get on with the business of living. Down the street is a young man of 25 years of age who lives off his three, (or more) pregnant gals...Would someone with the benefit of higher education please explain to me why I am forced to use my income to subsidize his illegit offspring, and make his maternal and pediatric monthly insurance payments for him, isn't it enough that a 60 year old has to buy this young man his food and provide housing for him and his multiple partner gal concubines?

Does it really take a college degree to see that the social handouts the government steals from folks like me just serve to propagate the numbers of irresponsible folks in the country? Hey, ya'll, WOOHOO! just get the gal gown the street preggers and you get to live for free off those the Gov steals from. And then all the well educated folks with high sounding words and fancy sheepskin papers on the wall will love and defend you for your irresponsible life style, fatherless children, and for the the votes you sell to liberal politicians...Ain't that the new America.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The word socialism appeared nowhere in my post. That was not an element of my post in any way at all. Responding with things I did not even say is not really valid. My statement was very clear, and applies to everyone equally in our country.

And while I support capitalism, I also acknowledge that word appears nowhere in our Constitution...

Matt my post was not that you said socialism, it was your comment that conservatives need to except the results of the election.

Beside the fact there was election fraud in last election my post and complaint is not about the election, it is about the socialism bo is trying to cram down America's throat. It is about the betrayal of oath of office and and betrayal of American Citizens and our freedoms.

"If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." "Your insurance will be cheaper".

How far do you think lucifercare would have gotten if bo had not lied to the American people. He was told in 2010 what was going to happen.

Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS, NSA, drone attacks on American Citizens, illegal seizure of
American's medical records, illegal seizure of reporters phone records, spying on all law abiding Americans,
supporting Al Qaeda rebels in syria, supporting of Muslim Britherhood, all of these are the reasons we opposed bo.......

We will NOT go quitely into the night!