Im getting laid off!

[Doitlaynstyle]

I'm getting laid off!

This is great news. My company is hitting a short lull in work and it couldn't come at a better time. Mining season is in full swing and I think I found a claim to buy into. My RV is all period for the season because of the two trips I've taken in it this year and the one I'm leaving for today. This layoff will give me the chance to see if I can make it as a full time miner. So cool! If this works out and I'm able to pull enough gold I'll be buying my own claim and running full time which means I won't have to work anymore. Awesome right? If you had the chance what would you do? Find another job or chase a dream?

 

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[AzViper]

Layn, sounds if the Dirt Hog is going into action and not being sold. All the power to you. Your given an opportunity that few get to taste on a day by day or hour by hour adventure. I wish you well my friend...

 

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[Armchair prospector]

We don't need guys gold mining on unemployment checks, we need them working. If you are finding gold then you don't need the check. We are supporting those checks through our higher taxes. No sweet deal here. This just what Nancy Pelosy was hoping for. This is liberal thinking. It doesn't work!

 

[Jeff95531]

So all they want is a $1000 and they are hurting for cash...what does that tell you? Good luck but keep your head up.

 

[AzViper]

We don't need guys gold mining on unemployment checks, we need them working. If you are finding gold then you don't need the check. We are supporting those checks through our higher taxes. No sweet deal here. This just what Nancy Pelosy was hoping for. This is liberal thinking. It doesn't work!

Where did you read in Doitlaynstyle's post that he is drawing unemployment? Your just assuming cause he has been laid off. I would be more worried of the billions spent policing the world, supporting illegals, paying for those coming from third world countries taking jobs, paying their housing and insurance while they send our American dollar back home.

 

[63bkpkr]

Doin It,
I've been limited to email as I only have a connection when I'm at the local library so I've only just come in on this thread.

Your Question: What would you do if you had the chance to go prospecting for a long time (something close to this)? I had that chance in 2011 and was out in the hills for three months. At that time the snow was still in the NorCal mountains till mid July so I was limited. With the timing you have right now it would be a no brainer for me, I'd GO! However, I caution you to pinch penny's and be wise about taking Good Care of yourself as in no injuries even if it means you pass on a super spot.

Harbor freight offers an 8000 lb capacity cable hoist (their lighter ones are not worth purchasing) and it does wonders when coupled with a length of chain, some cable with hooks on each end and a set of tire chains used one at a time as a boulder bra. A snatch block and a right angle turnbuckle(might not be the correct name for it) from a place like Tractor Supply is a good investment to add to the 8000 lb capacity hoist.

The best of success to you and your adventure as you are going on an adventure! 63bkpkr

 

[Clay Diggins]

Good questions, all of them. I don't have to buy in yet, and its two other guys on a 120 acre claim that was partially processed back in the old days and the old miners stopped right at about the second world war. The claim hasn't been worked since then. My friends discovered the delinquent status of the claim and snatched it up.

I'm glad you are getting the opportunity Layne, I hope it all "pans out" for you!

The hair went up on the back of my neck when I read your post though. I've been reading your posts on this forum and others for the last few years so I'm really rooting for you. I'm with John though - something smells fishy here. I've included above the portion of your post that sent my BS radar tingling.

Two people can't locate a 120 acre claim. It takes 6 locators to make and hold a 120 acre claim. It might take the BLM a year or more to get around to it but if there are really only two locators they will be voiding the location case file. The claim will be declared void from the beginning as if it never existed.

I would strongly suggest you discover the answer to two questions before putting down any of your savings on this deal:

1. What exactly is the status of the claim location with the county recorder, BLM and Master Title Plat?
And
2. Why the heck would these guys, or more importantly a mineral examiner, believe that they have a placer that covers 120 acres? 120 acre placers are rarer than hens teeth and the law requires every 10 acres to be proven mineral in character.

If this were your typical "lets go out this weekend and see if we can find a little gold" claim you might be good to go. You are not talking about a little weekend fun, you are talking about feeding your family. Experienced professional miners sniff the pile very closely before stepping in it much less taking the bite as you are considering.

Successful miners need to know a lot more than what equipment might be good for a deposit before mining. Considering you are a newbie to the world of making a living mining you may as well start with the necessary process of playing devils advocate to any deal that you might be considering. It will become a skill that you will come to find invaluable if you are to survive in the world of small mining.

In our mining group a deposit must be tested and defined in area and recoverable values before a claim is made. Even then the miners aren't brought in until all the cost/benefits of that particular claim are considered in relation to other discoveries. This is a point often missed by greenhorns. Without future prospects to be mined any single deposit is a dead end job. Once your one prospect is mined out or becomes unprofitable you are unemployed unless you have other deposits already vetted and defined. This is an ongoing process - a job.

There are a lot of reasons a good prospect can go south. I'm sure you are already thinking of possibilities like water, fuel costs, access, weather and a played out streak. All those things can, and do, happen but in my experience the most common reasons mining ventures fail is the human factor. People make mistakes. As you will discover over time, if you succeed in living your dream, a steady mining partner that you can depend on is much rarer than a big gold strike. Two such partners is a virtual impossibility. You can make your odds much better by always being one of those rare good partners yourself but you can't do that for the other miners you partner with.

Just my two cents.

Good luck and
Heavy Pans

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

im still confused on why you don't stake your own claim?

 

[goldhog]

I'm glad you are getting the opportunity Layne, I hope it all "pans out" for you!

Two people can't locate a 120 acre claim. It takes 6 locators to make and hold a 120 acre claim. It might take the BLM a year or more to get around to it but if there are really only two locators they will be voiding the location case file. The claim will be declared void from the beginning as if it never existed.

Hey Clay,
Have a quick question for you.
If 6 people "locate a 120 acre claim" then sell it to ONE person, that is valid and one person can hold that.
But if the claim goes "invalid" / back into public domain, then it has to be relocated by 6 again, correct?
I think that is the point you were making.
Doc

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

Wow! I just got back last night at about eleven from a weekend of digging and watching the Idaho City rally races. All in all had a great weekend and found a little gold while we were there. Thank you all for the replies and I had a little time to go over the paperwork that is involved with the claim. Turns out that I was wrong as I usually am lol. The claim was bought out by one miner when the others left and the claim had maintained its size so that the newer 20 acre claim rule doesn't apply. That miner deeded it to his kid who is now in his sixties and he sold it to the older of the partners I'm looking at buying in with. So the claim is legit and doesn't fall under the worries that were brought up previously in the thread. I will be spending about the next month prospecting this claim and I WILL NOT buy in unless I think it's promising. The area we we'll be working can be worked with heavy equipment and you don't have to put in a P.O.O. (forest service lingo for plan of operation) for test holes and I will be renting a small Trac-hoe just for this purpose. I already cleared this with the guys and I will be bringing in a dowser just on a whim to see if that stuff is for real. I'll find the gold where I find it but I think it will be fun just to see. Thank you all for your kind words and your advice, I will take it to heart. I'm going to be using the gold I have already found to buy my way in so I WILL NOT be parting with that very easily or just throwing it to the wind on a hope. I'm not like the Obama administration lol. I'll post more as things progress and develop.

 

[goldhog]

Should be a great experience, as are most "different" times in our lives.
Have a blast and smile through it all.
Keep us posted and take pics.
Everyone will enjoy seeing them.
Doc

 

[Rawhide]

I had to pass up a great opportunity from a guy on here who had made some of his own geological equipment for testing. My health has not been good enough to commit to the hard work. If your in shape, I say go for it. If that gentleman still wants to go get the silver, Im still here thinking about you.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Hey Clay,
Have a quick question for you.
If 6 people "locate a 120 acre claim" then sell it to ONE person, that is valid and one person can hold that.
But if the claim goes "invalid" / back into public domain, then it has to be relocated by 6 again, correct?
I think that is the point you were making.
Doc

You are missing the most important part of that equation Doc.

If 6 locators sell a perfected mining claim to a single individual the 20 acre rule doesn't apply. Unperfected claims are still subject to the 20 acre rule even when they are transferred. This has been true for at least 120 years. With the recent hike in annual fees the BLM is finally taking an interest in enforcing this portion of the mining law. Beware relying on past experience here.

Big difference there.


Here is the rule in a nutshell:

You may transfer, sell, or otherwise convey an association placer mining claim at any time to an equal or greater number of mining claimants. If you want to transfer an association placer claim to an individual or an association that is smaller in number than the association that located the claim, you—

(a) Must have discovered a valuable mineral deposit before the transfer; or

(b) Upon notice from BLM, you must reduce the acreage of the claim, if necessary, so that you meet the 20-acre per locator limit.

The BLM is finally taking an interest in enforcing this portion of the mining law. Beware relying on past experience here. The BLM has been stepping up to the plate on this one in the last few years and unwary buyers have been surprised by the 30 day notice to bring in more locators or reduce the claim to 20 acres.

Luckily it looks like Layne already has this issue covered but a misunderstanding here could be costly.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

That is a very powerful bit of info. The mineral deposit is there and proven so I hope we are covered. The paperwork looked right to me. I'm not going to ask the BLM though cuz that might just bring unwanted attn. Fortunately the district is covered by the Forest Service and not the BLM. If that makes a difference I don't know...

 

[Clay Diggins]

That doesn't make any difference Layne. The BLM is the agency that manages the mineral lands. The Forest Service is a surface management agency and doesn't adjudicate mining claims. The BLM does have some adjudication responsibilities but they are limited. It's best to know about the few instances where they do have some little authority. This was one of those situations so I thought I would mention it.

Heavy Pans

 

[elkie13]

Let me know if you need assistance with the forest service part of it. If it really is us forest service you need a POO just to drive a car there. Double check this ok? You do not want to be in hot water with them, I KNOW! Lol

 

[goldenIrishman]

If this works out and I'm able to pull enough gold I'll be buying my own claim and running full time which means I won't have to work anymore. Awesome right? If you had the chance what would you do? Find another job or chase a dream?

Won't have to work anymore? If only that were the truth! You will be working harder than ever before but loving it a lot more as well.

EDIT: After reading through the rest of the thread I have to agree with Clay here. Forest Service is SURFACE RESOURCES only, but they can still make your life hell. Access has become a major issue in a lot of areas in the last few years but at least it seems to be getting better. Test that area until you're sure it's worth investing in and make sure that the paper trail adds up as legit. Make sure you've got the ducks all lined up and you stay on top of following the regs in your area. These differ from area to area in some respects so advice for a miner in AZ may or may not be valid in Idaho. Once you get busted for not following some regulation, they can make it almost impossible to get things going again. There is a guy with a claim not far from ours that was shut down for not having a POO in place and now they will not approve one for him. This has been going on for a couple of years now.

If you've got open areas there, I'd at least spend some time looking into them as well. If you can find one that is worth it, file your own claim and keep yourself from having to deal with partners.

 

[Goldwasher]

So is a mineral survey the only way to establish and quantify the necessary value? Or can our fellow miner pay some taxes and plop down a Tupperware full of gold on the lead geologists desk and be on his way.. (relatively speaking)....and as far as a p.o.o how about if that was only required on a "PERFECTED" claim I realize that is not the case but, sheese it would help stream line everything and keep people from getting burned in the wallet. What if you have two claims? It takes three years to effectively prospect both and show your valuable discovery. Couldn't some one come along and challenge the validity if they knew you were just prospecting. I realize that involves court. But, is this a situation that comes up often? Are you not charged with making a valuable discovery before you even file? So, how is that not inferred? So, perfecting is essentially proving the discovery....and prudence?? I believe every thing Clay says he knows his stuff. Yet it makes things foggier for me at this point. Mainly because we are discussing law and theory....in a situation with so many variables. What do you think the percentage of "Perfected" vs. " Un-Perfected " claims is. I don't believe I have ever talked to anyone who actually has one other than a few who were patented. They were really old lode claims that had been patented for decades. Thank you very much for bringing this up Clay....Best of luck Layne it sounds like a good and safe situation as far as getting involved in an existing claim. I hope Clays info keeps you away from any misfortune.

 

[AzViper]

Our local club got bitten by this entire issue above. The club had 20 plus claims with many being 140 to 160 acre claims. BLM put a stop to it. Now each of these old 160 acre claims are now eight 20 acre claims. To keep just these eight the club would have to refile at $194.00 x 8 = $1552.00 then on September 1st these eight claim will each need another $140.00 for the amount of $1120.00 to renew the claim every year after. The club had to make a decision on what to keep and what to let go cause after everything was set to 20 acre claims the club would have had to refile for 193 twenty acre claims and then on September 1st renew the claims. Had the club kept all these claims it would have cost $37,000.00 and another $27,000.00 on September 1st and every year after.

Now you can see what the BLM is up to... $$$

 

[russau]

they cant beat us so theyre drownding us in paperwork and fees! this sounds like unreasonable restrictions to me!

 

[pacog]

AZviper, Well is see good and bad issue's with the new Fee's that have to be paid on each claim.

First off let me ask, does your Club really need 193 20 acer claims? I mean that seems like a lot. How many members are in the Club?

The Bad is see is the BLM has more powers(very bad) and more paper work that they already can't keep up with.

The good is see is that there will no longer be people or groups hoarding large number's of claims and not working them. If your claim has gold on it, it should be pretty easy to work it to come up with the $140 yearly fee. JMO. If it doesn't get worked then, oh well you need to find the money somewhere.