I believe i found the reason for the pit on Oak Island and it wasnt for treasure.

[rowanns]

One thing however, is that Oak Island is extremely close to the mainland and highly visible. I could swim out to it when the ocean is warm (it's only about fifteen minutes away from me). If a ship was there for refit, it would have had a small summer window in which to do it. Summer was also the time when the Mi'kmaq would leave the inland rivers and lakes and live at the coast instead. If they were of a hostile nature, they could easily stop anyone from doing anything of any duration on Oak Island, believe me. What hasn't been discussed is if there any evidence of a native presence on the island. The platforms were definitely there by the way. Mahone Bay has approximately 365 islands. If one wanted to repair a ship, there are other islands that could have offered protection as well as secrecy.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[rowanns]

So why go to the trouble of constructing an artificial beach if one wanted to tell a story?

 

[Dave Rishar]

Just for the record, the ship refit theory is not my official position. However...

Why would this have to be done during the summer?

I can't say for sure whether or not there was a native presence on the island. There didn't appear to be one circa 1795. With the amount of holes dug on that island, I'd suspect that someone would have turned up evidence of a long-term settlement by now.

The platforms were definitely there? Do tell.

What artificial beach? There's an artificial beach now? Why go through the trouble of constructing one? Why go through the trouble of burying wooden platforms, strangely carved rocks, and all the other "discoveries" that have turned up? Why bury a treasure and leave rigging equipment hanging above it? None of it makes any sense, which is why I suspect that most (or all) of it is malarkey.

 

[Gold Maven]

What is the proof of the cove being man made?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Ladies & gentlemen: Listening, but still not a disbeliever that something of value was buried UNDER the block. leaving the Block is not logical unless it was left there by a lazy sub. just as happens today. Of course if it was realized that hiding the evdence of a depression / subsieince then it frankly would not mke any difference,

Here in Mexico this was of primary importance for Bandits, & treasure hunters, in one case was successfuly used for an escape < interesting story there, but not on The Oak theme.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

 

[rowanns]

Hi there, with regard to the artificial beach at Smith's Cove..... A layer of coconut fibre was found, a fibre bed if you like, that extended for approximately 145 feet along the shoreline. Below this was a layer of eel grass. And under the eelgrass were beach stones. No sand or gravel was there, which is a odd. The stones were tightly packed together and this is just something a person does not see with beach stones - they are scattered, not packed. When the area was dammed, five box drains were discovered. That's what I can tell you off the top of my head about the artificial beach. If someone was going to repair a ship, there would be no reason to construct this beach. I keep going back to this area time and time again and it frankly fascinates me more than the Money Pit. If my memory serves me correctly (which it might not!) I believe this is the area where I stumbled upon the stone with the letter "G" on it when I was a teenager. The stone was there. Hope some of this information helps. Cheers!

 

[rowanns]

Posted incorrectly. Sorry

 

[rowanns]

Just for the record, the ship refit theory is not my official position. However...

Why would this have to be done during the summer?

I can't say for sure whether or not there was a native presence on the island. There didn't appear to be one circa 1795. With the amount of holes dug on that island, I'd suspect that someone would have turned up evidence of a long-term settlement by now.

The platforms were definitely there? Do tell.

What artificial beach? There's an artificial beach now? Why go through the trouble of constructing one? Why go through the trouble of burying wooden platforms, strangely carved rocks, and all the other "discoveries" that have turned up? Why bury a treasure and leave rigging equipment hanging above it? None of it makes any sense, which is why I suspect that most (or all) of it is malarkey.

Hello sir. The artificial beach has been known about for quite some time, so its existence is nothing new to anyone. Mind you, there are other theories as to what this beach represented, one of which in particular is intriguing over and above the Money Pit. If we accept that fishermen from Europe came here hundreds of years before Columbus and the others, then they had to have a way to preserve their catch for the European market. So they'd need salt. It may be that the artificial beach at Oak Island represents the remnants of salt operations whereby the salt was gleaned from sea water and used to preserve fish. There is mention in the historical record of the remnants of an old dam being found on the island. The jury is still out on what actually was going on with the beach at Smith's Cove, but no one has suggested that what was there was not man-made. Repairing a ship takes time to complete and up here where Oak Island is located, the seasons are short, except for winter of course. A ship would not have wanted to over-winter here and would have wanted to get away before the onslaught of hurricane season in the North Atlantic. Late Spring at the earliest and Summer would give a window of approximately four months. Add to that the notion that fishermen just wouldn't come to this corner of the world en masse during winter and I would say this window is the only one that makes any sort of sense.

 

[Dave Rishar]

I've heard stories about the stones and the drains and such, but are they really there?

Depending on the reason for refitting a ship, the crew may not have had much choice in the matter over the timing.

 

[rowanns]

I've heard stories about the stones and the drains and such, but are they really there?

Depending on the reason for refitting a ship, the crew may not have had much choice in the matter over the timing.

Well, I can tell you that the stone with the letter "G" was there because I saw it and pointed it out to my older brother at the time. Because we were young and sneaking on the island to begin with (fun!), I didn't really get the chance to look at things too closely. I can tell you that there are concrete samples of the coconut fibres in existence. Also, remnants of the coffer dam originally used to block off Smith's Cove for investigation can still be seen at the island. As to the drains themselves, they are no longer visible as far as I know and there is no definitive proof that I can find to confirm they are connected to the Money Pit, but don't hold me to that. Pictures also exist of a stone triangular marker near what I believe is known as "Old Smith's Cove". Now that marker may no longer be there - who knows - because it is amazing what has been just plain destroyed on this island in the quest for "treasure". Oak samples taken from the Money Pit were carbon dates, so yes, they were real. There was a stone with an inscription on it - definitely - and a Professor at Dalhousie University had offered an translation that really kicked the treasure idea into overdrive. That translation is disputed. Just some further information - hope it helps.

As to the ship refitting idea, I just can't see any fisherman at that time and with those vessels making the decision to sail the North Atlantic in the winter. Furthermore, the Mi'kmaw certainly had contact with them in other areas of Nova Scotia and the relationship appears to have been a peaceful one (they weren't staying and I believe that was an important factor).

When push comes to shove, there has been so much damage done to the Money Pit over time, so much destroyed to get some sort of riches, that I believe whatever may have been there is there no more. I think the only thing that may be found now will be of an artifact nature, and frankly I find that all rather sad. Riches come in many shapes and forms and sometimes knowledge is the true treasure because it leads us toward new ideas and relationships, but that's just my opinion. Oak Island to many is the quest for gold. To me, it is the quest for knowledge and answers. It always has been. Cheers!

 

[cazisme]

Septic Tank?

 

[Gold Maven]

The "drains" depicted by a sketch on the TV show, show them under this cove, draining to the pit.

Even if they don't go to the pit, where could you possibly drain the water to? You can't just drain water with no place to go.

If they were meant to flood the pit to protect the treasure, it seems like huge overkill, and if flooded how could the hiders retrieve it?

Imagine digging below the water line, at such a remote location, lining the tunnel with stone, it just doesn't seem plausible.

Hopefully this rejuvenation of the mystery will put enough young fresh minds on it, that we may get a definitive answer.

 

[Dave Rishar]

I believe that you saw the stone. I won't question that.

Where did it come from? Who carved it? Where had it been between the time when it was discovered, and the time when you saw it?

I believe that there are coconut fiber samples. Where did they come from? Where had they been between the time that they were discovered, and when they were seen?

It seems to me that it would take a few hours, a bulldozer, and a digital camera to put the artificial beach story to rest...maybe an expert or two officiating would help, but that's not a deal-breaker. This hasn't been done. I don't think that it will ever be done. It would certainly free up some investor money if it showed what we want to be shown, but no one has ever bothered to do it. They just want to dig more holes.

Why?

I know how I would run this dig. How would you run it?

 

[rowanns]

I believe that you saw the stone. I won't question that.

Where did it come from? Who carved it? Where had it been between the time when it was discovered, and the time when you saw it?

I believe that there are coconut fiber samples. Where did they come from? Where had they been between the time that they were discovered, and when they were seen?

It seems to me that it would take a few hours, a bulldozer, and a digital camera to put the artificial beach story to rest...maybe an expert or two officiating would help, but that's not a deal-breaker. This hasn't been done. I don't think that it will ever be done. It would certainly free up some investor money if it showed what we want to be shown, but no one has ever bothered to do it. They just want to dig more holes.

Why?

I know how I would run this dig. How would you run it?

To my knowledge the stone is still there, was certainly mentioned, and was never moved. It is unclear where the coconut fibres came from; hence the requirement for more research into that. I really am not sure where you are going with that. Are you suggesting that a 145 foot long stretch of beach was lined with eel grass, coconut fibres, and beach stones to create a hoax? I can only say this to you. I am from this area, I know the way my fellow Nova Scotians in small communities relate to each other. There is no such thing as a secret and there would be no way to keep a secret that involves this many individuals. No way. There are disagreements between families that span generations around here.

You are suggesting that things have disappeared only to reappear. Where did you come up with that? Blankenship has stuff and so do his partners. They are not required to produce anything, but you appear to be suggesting magic tricks afoot, which is a serious suggestion to make toward that man.

I'm sorry that you feel this is all "malarkey" as you put it earlier. I'm sorry that you feel this is nothing but a hoax perpetrated by, well I guess, folks who had nothing better to do around here than to create a beach with drainage holes.

Taking in a bulldozer to Smith's Cove would just destroy things even further. One could do a cross section and that would be better. Archaeologists would be a help here. Folks want the treasure however, not the beach, so why would they dole out cash there? That's just common sense.

Judging by your comment that this won't be done adds further credence to my suspicion that you are not taking any information I said seriously and are frankly calling folks liars and a great many folks at that.

That's too bad. I came on this board to have reasonable conversations about Oak Island, but while your scepticism is laudable and I for one applaud it, the artificial beach is not a "story' as you put it.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ok Ladies & Gentlemen: to let my imagination run wild, a Pirate ship loaded with the loot of Panama sailed north to the island.

Since it was starting to seriously leak, it was grounded on what was a very high tide - high tide of the year - and the repairs made.

But the high tide did not return, so they dumped a lot of ballast stone to lighten the ship.

But still not enough, , so they buried the Loot from Panama - the pit - which had been packed in coconut fibres, which also served for the caulking.

But still not enough, so they dug a shallow trench alongside of the ship to refloat it, then sailed away with happy thoughts.


OK, the line forms on the right --->, , Jodie will help with the coffee.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s OK, OK it is s good as any so far

P.P.S. CROW, please don't forget my percentage !!

 

[rowanns]

Could have been Abermarle and his boys looking to deposit loot after the sacking of Havana. After all Nova Scotia by then would have been under British domination - easy scoot up the coast to the new port of Halifax and head off overseas only to not to make it back for awhile due to the conflict in the colonies and the French playing havoc. Just a thought - not my own- but a theory raised by William Crooker. Cheers!

 

[Dave Rishar]

I'm not suggesting that the beach was constructed as a hoax. I'm suggesting that it was not constructed at all. How does anyone know what that beach is made of if it hasn't been excavated in its entirety? Until it has been, it's just a story. Until someone finds a drain, those are just stories too. Unless a rune stone turns up, that was just a story. Those gold links that came up on the drill? Also gone, and also a story.

If you want to know why someone might be less than honest about what they found, follow the money. It seems as if every time something is found, it's right around the time that the person doing the digging is looking for investors.

At this point, people have been tromping around that island for a bit over two centuries, digging holes, moving things around, establishing/disestablishing camps, and generally making a mess of things. As I said, I'll believe that you saw a stone with a G on it. I'll even believe that it's never been moved. But who carved it? Some might say that it was a Templar that did it 1,000 years ago, but I could counter that it was done by a bored worker taking a break in the 19th century with the same level of validity - perhaps moreso in my case, as mine is the simpler explanation that still fits with the existing evidence.

At the end of the day, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Every single piece of evidence that I've been able to find can either be debunked or is inconclusive.

I'm aware of the stone with the runes on it. It was yet another piece of evidence that turned up when a team was looking for more investors, and is yet another piece of evidence that no one can find anymore. It's also another piece of evidence that makes no logical sense whatsoever. Why bury a marker at 90 feet telling the diggers to go another 40? They're already balls deep in the recovery process if they went that far; they need no further encouragement nor guidance. This seems to be a trend with the Money Pit - questionable evidence that makes no sense, unless the purpose of the "find" was to generate a bit more cash.

I don't think that many of the people making these discoveries were liars exactly, although I'm quite certain that a few of them were, particularly back in the early days. I'd go so far as to speculate that most of the guys that did lie or falsify evidence did so with the best of intentions. I think that a lot of them truly believe that the evidence is solid, but I don't think that they're basing their beliefs on rational thought. They enter the subject with the idea that there's something there, so how does the evidence fit? I'm a self-admitted skeptic and I approach things from the opposite direction: I don't think that anything's there, so does the existing evidence prove me wrong? As of now, it does not. Likewise, when we hypotheticize about how the treasure got there, we can have some interesting conversations but it's important for someone at some point to step back and say, "Hey, is there even anything there in the first place? Does this even make sense?" I'm one of those guys.

I'm hard on Mrs. Hope's story as you've probably noticed, and I'll bet that she was one of the great folks that you mentioned. I have no problem with the woman. I have a problem with her stories. I don't doubt that she really believed that Vikings built a castle near her home, or even that leprachauns stole her neighbor's car. That doesn't mean that I believe it, and her beliefs don't necessarily make the stories true.

The guys doing the digging certainly have nothing to gain from convincing me. I don't have the money to invest in them and if I did, I'd invest it in something else. However, I'm not going to believe a story unless it's backed up by solid evidence, particularly a story this amazing. We're not there yet.

When I asked earlier how you'd dig the site, it wasn't a trick or anything. I was honestly curious. Let me firm that up a bit: if you were going to try to recover this treasure, would you randomly drill holes and drain swamps, or would you start at the beginning and try to verify some of the existing legends? How about digging up that artificial beach for a start? It would take a day with a bulldozer. It could probably be done for less than a thousand dollars. Doing so would prove (or disprove) one of the foundational stories supporting this legend for good, and hey, you might even turn up one of those drains in the process. That seems like money well spent to me. Of course, one might find just the opposite - it's not artificial, there are no drains, and then the whole thing falls apart.

I apologize if I'm out of my lane here, but it seems to me that most (or all) of these operations pass up these opportunities to verify stories for the opposite reason that I'd want to - because they might just disprove them, and then the legend falls apart, the holes were dug for nothing, the investors are pissed off, and six people will have died for something that never existed. It wouldn't take much to solve this mystery one way or the other, but not too many people seem interested in doing so and honestly, I don't blame them.

Apologies if I offended you or any of your neighbors. That was not my intent.

 

[rowanns]

Sigh....

The drains were found, the eel grass was there - I could go on, but see no point frankly. It is not that people aren't interested, it is that people feel that whatever was there, and they are certain something was there, it has probably been destroyed by now with all the drilling and bulldozing and the like. You can't go digging up the beach completely if you think the drainage system is somehow connected to the Pit - that would be as reckless as what has been done to date.

You and I will agree to differ on what constitutes proof and what is a legend.

I am quite familiar with Mrs. Hope's work and while I understand she was a very nice lady who has unfortunately passed on, I don't agree with a single thing she wrote other than the fact that there were ruins of some sort on her property. The New Ross area of Nova Scotia is not far from Oak Island and it does have a wonderful history worth exploring, but not of the nature Mrs. Hope believed!

So we agree to disagree on Oak Island (I'm right and you're wrong!), but we agree about Mrs. Hope's work.

 

[Dave Rishar]

The drains were found? When? By whom? Pics/film/evidence?

There is certainly a point to go on. You've obviously seen how tenaciously I argue my point. If my point is wrong, and a new point is correct, I will argue that just as tenaciously. I take pride in my adherence to logic. I have no loyalties. I only have what is right and what is not, based on my observations and the evidence provided to me. I have no dog in this fight. This is one issue that I'd love to be wrong about, and I'd love for someone to take the necessary steps to put me in my place. It can be done right now. No one wants to do it. My loss, I suppose.

If the drainage system isn't connected to the pit, we need to drop it. That's a core element of the legend. Either there were drains set up to flood the pit, or there were not; if they were, they had to be connected to it. You can't have this both ways. And digging up the beach is reckless, but excavating the beach is not, so call it an excavation and dig the damned thing up for once and for all. Everyone knows what is there, so what is the harm in turning it up? Dig it up and let's be done with it. I'm sick and tired of these stories. Let's prove them or put them to bed. There's little to no archealogical worth to this island now anyway. That part doesn't matter any more, so dig it all up and let's figure out what we're dealing with. The island is far too jacked up now to make any solid conclusions in any event. Call it one big excavation and retire it.

The grass is there, or is it? Can you verify that every inch of that beach is covered with sand, then eel grass (I thought we were talking about coconut fiber, so we'll include that), then manmade stones, and then the natural beach?

We may agree to differ on what constitutes proof, but if it doesn't exist today (and its demise cannot be documented), it doesn't exist to me. I can claim that the USS Nimitz made a port call there, but no one will believe me. Why not?

You have the stories, but have you verified them? Are they stories or are they fact? I'm not intentionally being an @sshole here, but I want facts, not local lore. Local lore doesn't pay the bills. Is all this stuff really here, or is it more stories? You're a local. I'm actually much more comfortable with asking you this than asking on most forums, but I want an honest answer. I don't want your stories, or the stories that you heard. What is really there?

Not an insult, just an honest request for information. I'm a skeptic, but I'm open-minded. I don't get mad when people prove me wrong. I've been wrong before. I was very wrong about the Vikings, for instance. It's great when I'm wrong! I learn something! And the next time that the discussion comes up, I have something new to offer. No one truly loves being wrong, but I can honestly say that I enjoy it, if only because I will be less likely to be wrong the next time it comes up. I'm never angry when I'm forced to learn something.

About the dig, though...I will repeat that question. How would you dig this? Would you continue on the established path, or would you do something else? Why?

As for the post in general, I'm drunk as hell, so if certain parts don't make sense, just ask me again tomorrow. I'll try again when I'm sober.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

g'd morning Dave you 'need' coffee I see. You posted --> I don't get mad when people prove me wrong. I've been wrong before
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sooo you ARE married eh?

As for my pirate post, you Do realize it was a 'TONGUE IN CHEEK' post, no?

Frankly I have never given Oak Island much thought, what I know of it comes from here, but it does seem a bit fascinating, IF one can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. I agree, use some of the expensive tools available today to scan to the bottom to see if any metallic objects, anomalies, or chambers exist down there ! Cheaper in th elong run.