Huge copper coin - Solved! King George IV Penny!!!

[Narthoniel]

Hello,

I dug a coin today and I am hoping to gain some idea of what it might be before I start cleaning. I am sure that whatever it is peroxide will be alright, but, I want to be sure I am not potentially damaging a valuable coin.

The coin is copper, the rim appears worn, and it measures 33 mm in diameter. This site has given up coins from 1781 to 1853 so far and is located in southeast Virginia. When I dug this, I was shocked by how large it is. I would take a photo, but it is so caked with dirt it would not help. Literally 1-3 mm of dirt crust across both sides.

If you have any suggestions or ideas as to what this coin could be, please post. As I said, I more or less want to know I am not messing with a valuable coin. I realize it is not likely, but hey, better safe than sorry.

Thank you,
Anthony

 

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[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Flipping through the Red Book, I only see one coin that could be a match. It is on page 42 of the 2009 edition. The 1733 Twopence has all the features I am seeing. Comparing mine to the photo, I can see the crown of leaves and the ribbon in the back of his hair. Even the "notch" in the leckline appears to be on my coin.

 

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[Iron Patch]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Bust is facing the correct way for a George II, and the letters are correct...but the cut of the neck line looks wrong.

Might be Irish.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Bust is facing the correct way for a George II, and the letters are correct...but the cut of the neck line looks wrong.   

  Might be Irish.

I think we have a winner.   


Do the circumference and weight line up?

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Bust is facing the correct way for a George II, and the letters are correct...but the cut of the neck line looks wrong.

Might be Irish.

Good call Iron patch. Looks like it based off the drawing on Narthoniel's coin.

 

[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

I agree that it does appear to be a George the Second, which in and of itself is awesome! Makes this by far my oldest coin to date. However, here is another coin that appears to be a match. It is the one I referenced earlier. This coin is slightly larger than mine, which I understand since mine is worn. I cannot find any information on how large the irish coins are, and there is zero detail on the reverse of my coin to indicate which it is.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

I agree that it does appear to be a George the Second, which in and of itself is awesome! Makes this by far my oldest coin to date. However, here is another coin that appears to be a match. It is the one I referenced earlier. This coin is slightly larger than mine, which I understand since mine is worn. I cannot find any information on how large the irish coins are, and there is zero detail on the reverse of my coin to indicate which it is.

Possible but the Hibernia halfpenny finds probably out number the Rosa coins by 100-1. I think your coin looks more like Georgius, than Georgivs, making it a Hibernia Halfpenny.

PS... As I said it is possile though, I am lucky enough to have found a 1722 Rosa Americana Two Pence.

One more point is the composition of the Rosa coins tend to hold up much better than the Hibernias. My Two pence is crud free and my dirt usually ain't to nice to coppers.

 

[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Possible but the Hibernia halfpenny finds probably out number the Rosa coins by 100-1. I think your coin looks more like Georgius, than Georgivs, making it a Hibernia Halfpenny.

PS... As I said it is possile though, I am lucky enough to have found a 1722 Rosa Americana Two Pence.

One more point is the composition of the Rosa coins tend to hold up much better than the Hibernias. My Two pence is crud free and my dirt usually ain't to nice to coppers.

I had not noticed the V instead of a U. I am pretty new with these old coins, sorry to have suggested the rosa now. You fellas sure know your coins! For a halfpenny, this sure is a big coin! Do you know the diameter of them, or know where I could find that information?
Thank you,
Anthony

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Possible but the Hibernia halfpenny finds probably out number the Rosa coins by 100-1. I think your coin looks more like Georgius, than Georgivs, making it a Hibernia Halfpenny.

PS... As I said it is possile though, I am lucky enough to have found a 1722 Rosa Americana Two Pence.

One more point is the composition of the Rosa coins tend to hold up much better than the Hibernias. My Two pence is crud free and my dirt usually ain't to nice to coppers.

I had not noticed the V instead of a U. I am pretty new with these old coins, sorry to have suggested the rosa now. You fellas sure know your coins! For a halfpenny, this sure is a big coin! Do you know the diameter of them, or know where I could find that information?
Thank you,
Anthony

I just measured two. (27mm & 27.5mm)

For dug coppers usually what makes the most sense ends up being the case but not always. It's worth making sure so you have nothing to be sorry for.

 

[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Possible but the Hibernia halfpenny finds probably out number the Rosa coins by 100-1. I think your coin looks more like Georgius, than Georgivs, making it a Hibernia Halfpenny.

PS... As I said it is possile though, I am lucky enough to have found a 1722 Rosa Americana Two Pence.

One more point is the composition of the Rosa coins tend to hold up much better than the Hibernias. My Two pence is crud free and my dirt usually ain't to nice to coppers.

I had not noticed the V instead of a U. I am pretty new with these old coins, sorry to have suggested the rosa now. You fellas sure know your coins! For a halfpenny, this sure is a big coin! Do you know the diameter of them, or know where I could find that information?
Thank you,
Anthony

I just measured two. (27mm & 27.5mm)

For dug coppers usually what makes the most sense ends up being the case but not always. It's worth making sure so you have nothing to be sorry for.

Hmm, my coin is quite a bit larger than that. I don't think the reverse will ever give up any detail which is a shame. At least now we know it is definatly a coin, has good ol George on it, and he seems to be number II. Now if only I could find a list of coins minted with his mug on them that list detail about the coins.
Anthony

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Possible but the Hibernia halfpenny finds probably out number the Rosa coins by 100-1. I think your coin looks more like Georgius, than Georgivs, making it a Hibernia Halfpenny.

PS... As I said it is possile though, I am lucky enough to have found a 1722 Rosa Americana Two Pence.

One more point is the composition of the Rosa coins tend to hold up much better than the Hibernias. My Two pence is crud free and my dirt usually ain't to nice to coppers.

I had not noticed the V instead of a U. I am pretty new with these old coins, sorry to have suggested the rosa now. You fellas sure know your coins! For a halfpenny, this sure is a big coin! Do you know the diameter of them, or know where I could find that information?
Thank you,
Anthony

I just measured two. (27mm & 27.5mm)

For dug coppers usually what makes the most sense ends up being the case but not always. It's worth making sure so you have nothing to be sorry for.

Hmm, my coin is quite a bit larger than that. I don't think the reverse will ever give up any detail which is a shame. At least now we know it is definatly a coin, has good ol George on it, and he seems to be number II. Now if only I could find a list of coins minted with his mug on them that list detail about the coins.
Anthony

So what does your coin measure? If it's much larger the case isn't closed yet.

PS... I must have been tired last night suggesting (or at least thinking) Rosa Americana... totally wrong bust. The coin you thought it was is VERY rare.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Just by his photo next to the Large Cents makes the Irish Halfpenny, not possible.


You should have posted size in millimeters when first posted, and by not cleaning the dirt off, big mistake, too hard for us to ID. Cleaning ground corroded coppers is necesarry to ID, otherwise a nice guessing game. Peroxide does not destroy coins by the way, despite what many say, the coin was already destroyed by the corrosion, or by the cleaner rubbing way too much................................................

Take more wet cotton swabs and work the dirt off where detail is, the lettering around the edge first, then bust detail or other details....................

 

[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Just by his photo next to the Large Cents makes the Irish Halfpenny, not possible.


You should have posted size in millimeters when first posted, and by not cleaning the dirt off, big mistake, too hard for us to ID. Cleaning ground corroded coppers is necesarry to ID, otherwise a nice guessing game. Peroxide does not destroy coins by the way, despite what many say, the coin was already destroyed by the corrosion, or by the cleaner rubbing way too much................................................

Take more wet cotton swabs and work the dirt off where detail is, the lettering around the edge first, then bust detail or other details....................

In the very first post I stated the size. It is 33 mm in diameter and the rim shows some wear, so it may have been a little bigger origionally. I have tried peroxide on coppers, and while I understand what you are saying about the damage being done by the ground, I have not had good results with it. It causes the dirt on the coin to cement up, and it will not come off.

As for looking into this coin with limited cleaning and no details visible, I had no idea coins this large were around. I wanted some idea as to what it could be, and there were some very insightful possabilies provided. I did not want to clean it, becuase of reasons I just stated. Couple my bad success with an unusual old coin, and I am extremly more cautious. I am a newbie, but I have learned some things. Once you start cleaning, there is no backing up.

Possible but the Hibernia halfpenny finds probably out number the Rosa coins by 100-1. I think your coin looks more like Georgius, than Georgivs, making it a Hibernia Halfpenny.

PS... As I said it is possile though, I am lucky enough to have found a 1722 Rosa Americana Two Pence.

One more point is the composition of the Rosa coins tend to hold up much better than the Hibernias. My Two pence is crud free and my dirt usually ain't to nice to coppers.

I had not noticed the V instead of a U. I am pretty new with these old coins, sorry to have suggested the rosa now. You fellas sure know your coins! For a halfpenny, this sure is a big coin! Do you know the diameter of them, or know where I could find that information?
Thank you,
Anthony

I just measured two. (27mm & 27.5mm)

For dug coppers usually what makes the most sense ends up being the case but not always. It's worth making sure so you have nothing to be sorry for.

Hmm, my coin is quite a bit larger than that. I don't think the reverse will ever give up any detail which is a shame. At least now we know it is definatly a coin, has good ol George on it, and he seems to be number II. Now if only I could find a list of coins minted with his mug on them that list detail about the coins.
Anthony

So what does your coin measure? If it's much larger the case isn't closed yet.

PS... I must have been tired last night suggesting (or at least thinking) Rosa Americana... totally wrong bust. The coin you thought it was is VERY rare.

My resources are limited when it comes to non US coins. I was flipping through the red book, and the only one with this style and size on the obverse is the rosa.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

Missed the 33 mm in size but did not miss the size comparison next to the Large Cents that is why I knew it could not be the Irish Halfpenny. But, to not remove the dirt hiding the details will not accomplish identification.

There is stopping once you started cleaning, it is not a one way street, you go slowly and in stages, if you see it getting worst than you would like to see, stop, and that is that, but if not enough details showing, guessing is just that.

When we see a coin not showing any detail or maybe some if you have imagination, the diameter, weight, sometimes even an edge shot help, but as Buckles suggested if you are not confident in how to clean using any method, at least do more of the wet cotton swab cleaning for bringing out some details, even if it is a letter or two, that sometimes can be enough.

 

[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Any ideas? - I SEE A HEAD!!

I showed this coin to a local coin dealer today, and he said it looked like a British Penny from King George II. On the reverse should be a lady sittin on a shield, but facing right instead of left. He said he could see the head and shoulder, but I still cannot. He said there is no way to get an exact date, which is about what I expected, but I am glad to see it identified. A HUGE thank you to everyone who contributed suggestions and advice. I really appreciate the efforts you all put forth. Now to go dig another!!!

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Huge copper coin - Solved! King George II Penny!!!

Sorry dude, but I doubt your dealer has it right and the fact he couldn't tell you exactly what it is pretty much indicates that. A Geo. II Halfpenny is not 33mm. (No Penny) Even a counterfeit 30mm would be very big. I've seen a lot and nothing over 30mm.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Re: Huge copper coin - Solved! King George II Penny!!!

That thing sure looks big to be a halfpenny

 

[Narthoniel]

Re: Huge copper coin - Solved! King George II Penny!!!

I did not say half penny, but rather penny. After some re-evluation, I can also see the scarce details on the reverse. Ill post a photo of it and doodle on it again so you can see where to look.

Upon some online sleuthing, I realize I have made a slight mistake. This is not a George II coin - it is a George IV. I had to search a large database to find the matching coin, but I am certain I have it now. I can even see the first 2 numbers in the date! Ill also attach a photo of a coin of this type in better condition.

Anyone ever heard of this coin being dug in the states? I never have, but I am fairly new at this game.
Anthony

More research shows this coin was only minted in 1825, 1826 and 1827, with the 1827 being a rare Australian only issue. I can see the first 3 numbers, but the third is missing. But, I know enough to be satisfied.

 

[Iron Patch]

Yes! and I'm about to give myself a slap. Last right I did think king George IV because I know he faces left, but at the time I still had damn Irish in my brain and when i checked Geo. IV I only checked Irish but the penny's wording had the Georgius too low. I just had one of those Brit. Geo. IV coins in my hands in the last week...DUH!

 

[Narthoniel]

Yes! and I'm about to give myself a slap. Last right I did think king George IV because I know he faces left, but at the time I still had damn Irish in my brain and when i checked Geo. IV I only checked Irish but the penny's wording had the Georgius too low. I just had one of those Brit. Geo. IV coins in my hands in the last week...DUH!

Hey, you did a lot to help me solve this one, and I appreciate it. I didnt give a lot to go on, so don't take it too hard. I am just glad to have figured this out. I remember when I pulled this out thinking, "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!?" I never expected to dig a british copper minted after 1800, but the dirt holds surprises aplenty! Thank you again for your help, I do appreciate it!
Anthony

 

[RELICDUDE07]

yes but do go ahead and slap yourself ironpatch