How

[Modelmaker]

New person, have watched way too many episodes to not ask, how can a human dig with pick and shovel 130 some feet deep with a 13' circumference hole, how do you dig a flood tunnel out to the ocean underground. What happens when you break out into the water, die?
I have a feeling that the commercial money is enough to sucking us all in?
What am I missing?

 

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[SSR]

You should not be using reason on unreasonable suggestions that come to you verbally. We are only called to apply reason onto reliably demonstrable facts. Nullius in Verba.

 

[Blackfoot58]

It’s like watching Superman;
Never question how a pair of eyeglasses can work as an effective disguise.

 

[SD51]

I mentioned this before...as a teenager, I read the article about Oak Island in the "Readers Digest" magazine and I wondered, "Who buries something of value that deep and expects to someday recover it"?

 

[SSR]

I mentioned this before...as a teenager, I read the article about Oak Island in the "Readers Digest" magazine and I wondered, "Who buries something of value that deep and expects to someday recover it"?

Someone who is representing what was misrepresented to them might suggest that foolishly to a public known to gobble up that sort of thing. The writer who did that years ago reported what story details he amassed from sources that have no reputable origin. Because we have been given so many precise numerical details in the evolving story it is quite probable that there's a mathematical allegory at play of the sort that were becoming popular in the mid 19th century. That may be the gist of it. Work out a little math based story and discover a proof for some well known Euclidian geometric theorem that some smart ass is teasing you with. There's way too much numerical detail in this story for it to be anything but a tempting puzzle, imo. You don't solve a puzzle by digging holes even if the numbers came to you from an alleged hunt for a treasure involving alleged vanishing holes. Lewis Carrol was doing stuff like this in the 1860s. You don't solve his math based riddles by actually following a rabbit down a hole. You just grab the numerical details from the story and go from there. I was rereading "Brave New World" the other day and noticed that Aldous Huxley did exactly that in the first chapter of that work. In the numerical details of the chapter there is a math puzzle.

 

[SSR]

It’s like watching Superman;
Never question how a pair of eyeglasses can work as an effective disguise.

It's a actually a bit of clever commentary by the creator of that story detail. It suggests that we see what we want to see or that we are often oblivious to things that are clearly in front of us. Same is true with suggestions. We believe what we want to believe, facts be damned.

 

[Blackfoot58]

It's a actually a bit of clever commentary by the creator of that story detail. It suggests that we see what we want to seem or that we are oblivious to things that are clearly in front of us. Same is true with suggestions. We believe what we want to believe, facts be damned.

Yes. Does Superman need the cape to fly, or is it just an odd fashion statement? 😀

 

[SSR]

Yes. Does Superman need the cape to fly, or is it just an odd fashion statement? 😀

The cloak is a symbolic detail from the magic tradition. The cape confers special powers. In superman's case it allows him to fly. If you look it up, the trend of depicting circus strongmen wearing capes is apparently what led comic book heroes to be shown that way, or so thy say. There's probably a lineage of ideas here that goes back all the way to the magi. In the story he may need it to fly, but the choice of having that detail appear may be a relic of very old pop culture.

 

[Limitool]

Yes. Does Superman need the cape to fly, or is it just an odd fashion statement? 😀

I think he needs the cape. And for the last 3 years I've tried to see if it actually works. And it does. I have a full length cape and am learning how to make it work 100% but it's difficult. Ground takeoffs are proving troublesome so I jumped off my shop roof for a head start and that works out every time. Now the flying is truly the easy part. It really is...! It's the landings that are proving truly difficult. Each time I land (3-times) it taking longer to recover to try again. I don't know how long the learning curve was for Superman but I may try one more time this year. But rest assured you can fly with a cape but I'm starting to question the need part...? Maybe my thinker is wrong slightly.

 

[SSR]

I think he needs the cape. And for the last 3 years I've tried to see if it actually works. And it does. I have a full length cape and am learning how to make it work 100% but it's difficult. Ground takeoffs are proving troublesome so I jumped off my shop roof for a head start and that works out every time. Now the flying is truly the easy part. It really is...! It's the landings that are proving truly difficult. Each time I land (3-times) it taking longer to recover to try again. I don't know how long the learning curve was for Superman but I may try one more time this year. But rest assured you can fly with a cape but I'm starting to question the need part...? Maybe my thinker is wrong slightly.

Always trust your cape!

 

[releventchair]

New person, have watched way too many episodes to not ask, how can a human dig with pick and shovel 130 some feet deep with a 13' circumference hole, how do you dig a flood tunnel out to the ocean underground. What happens when you break out into the water, die?
I have a feeling that the commercial money is enough to sucking us all in?
What am I missing?

There are (mostly true) accounts of well digging to be found.
I think it was a FoxFire book I read the last ones in?
One they used a wagon wheel rim to start it round , and short handled pic and shovels. Bucket on rope.
Depth is an interesting part of some accounts.
Old accounts mention burning material in a couple to reduce built up gas.
And mention air /lack thereof at depth, not being just a given depth beginning of decline.
Mention can be found too of how water at bottom is dealt with. How far to dig after it is encountered and how to kind of filter it's entrancing to reduce odds of cave in.

Cave in being another matter.
From falling items dropped from above to literal cave in. A small stone at 80 feet per drop can bonk with authority. Let alone the bucket a teammate is hauling your digging with.
One account had a deep heavy clay soiled pit close up overnight.
The diggers enthusiasm for digging wells understandably beginning to fade after.

i agree the pits described on Oak Island defy logic. At least the unshored/ unlined/ unpumped ones . Or most any over several feet deep.
A winter recovery would be brutal beyond. AFTER punching through the frozen surface first.

i need a volunteer to get in the hundred foot hole, only slightly below sea level.
What happened to the last six? They kind of quit. You can see the last ones hat down there.

 

[SSR]

There are (mostly true) accounts of well digging to be found.
I think it was a FoxFire book I read the last ones in?
One they used a wagon wheel rim to start it round , and short handled pic and shovels. Bucket on rope.
Depth is an interesting part of some accounts.
Old accounts mention burning material in a couple to reduce built up gas.
And mention air /lack thereof at depth, not being just a given depth beginning of decline.
Mention can be found too of how water at bottom is dealt with. How far to dig after it is encountered and how to kind of filter it's entrancing to reduce odds of cave in.

Cave in being another matter.
From falling items dropped from above to literal cave in. A small stone at 80 feet per drop can bonk with authority. Let alone the bucket a teammate is hauling your digging with.
One account had a deep heavy clay soiled pit close up overnight.
The diggers enthusiasm for digging wells understandably beginning to fade after.

i agree the pits described on Oak Island defy logic. At least the unshored/ unlined/ unpumped ones . Or most any over several feet deep.
A winter recovery would be brutal beyond. AFTER punching through the frozen surface first.

i need a volunteer to get in the hundred foot hole, only slightly below sea level.
What happened to the last six? They kind of quit. You can see the last ones hat down there.

In the vicinity of the MP there were no less than 5 water collection wells dug that all, in time, were contaminated by salty ground water infiltration. The wells were not dug to access veins of fresh water. They were dug to collect fresh water seeping in (as sumps). To maximize the collection depth you'd head for high ground. That's exactly where the MP location is.

There are n flood tunnels, but I find interesting that the suggestion keeps being trotted out as a feature where was only ever a bad theory. Various visual representations of it through the years have suggested they looked like the angled tunnels that resemble the shafts in the Great Pyramid. To me, this seems to have been done to suggest an upside down pyramid structure going 9 symbolic levels deep. Whoever crafted this nonsense was at least modelling it on something that was potentially recognizable. So many of the Biblical events in the Bible were attributed to events of the 18th dynasty (of 32 total dynasties). That, again, is echoed with the the lot 18 of 32 suggestion.

I would never question the fact there were searcher activities, but there doesn't seem to be evidence for any original working. The thing has always been lost, and yet we retain pretty specific numerical details to "guide" us in recognizing this story from way beyond 1840s NS.

 

[releventchair]

In the vicinity of the MP there were no less than 5 water collection wells dug that all, in time, were contaminated by salty ground water infiltration. The wells were not dug to access veins of fresh water. They were dug to collect fresh water seeping in (as sumps). To maximize the collection depth you'd head for high ground. That's exactly where the MP location is.

There are n flood tunnels, but I find interesting that the suggestion keeps being trotted out as a feature where was only ever a bad theory. Various visual representations of it through the years have suggested they looked like the angled tunnels that resemble the shafts in the Great Pyramid. To me, this seems to have been done to suggest an upside down pyramid structure going 9 symbolic levels deep. Whoever crafted this nonsense was at least modelling it on something that was potentially recognizable. So many of the Biblical events in the Bible were attributed to events of the 18th dynasty (of 32 total dynasties). That, again, is echoed with the the lot 18 of 32 suggestion.

I would never question the fact there were searcher activities, but there doesn't seem to be evidence for any original working. The thing has always been lost, and yet we retain pretty specific numerical details to "guide" us in recognizing this story from way beyond 1840s NS.

Not to debate theology(a worthwhile thing) , relatability matters.
Thus two Biblical accounts of creation.
That doesn't mean deception or fiction.
It does suggest people have more faith (belief in an unseen) when they can relate to a given geography, or river name ect. being mentioned.

Faith in the integrity , let alone the purpose of a hole in the ground is another matter.
And ones perspective affected by standing peering into it ; vs being in it.
And all we have are accounts and the rare picture of a hole!
Third party? Fourth?
I don't smell dirt or seawater here online. Still don't trust it's integrity over waist deep even in fictional accounts though.. No faith in such unknown unstructured substrate.
Sand and gravel mixed? Clay? Sedimentary sludge?
Being water saturated below sea level t doesn't slide around above bedrock?

 

[SSR]

Not to debate theology(a worthwhile thing) , relatability matters.
Thus two Biblical accounts of creation.
That doesn't mean deception or fiction.
It does suggest people have more faith (belief in an unseen) when they can relate to a given geography, or river name ect. being mentioned.

Faith in the integrity , let alone the purpose of a hole in the ground is another matter.
And ones perspective affected by standing peering into it ; vs being in it.
And all we have are accounts and the rare picture of a hole!
Third party? Fourth?
I don't smell dirt or seawater here online. Still don't trust it's integrity over waist deep even in fictional accounts though.. No faith in such unknown unstructured substrate.
Sand and gravel mixed? Clay? Sedimentary sludge?
Being water saturated below sea level t doesn't slide around above bedrock?

Allegory is not to be taken as willful deception, but it is a form of fiction. The stories come to us from the golden age of myth. We know they do and we can recognize in them the numerical influence of the earliest cult of numbers.

The only thing you or I were very instructed to have faith in is the idea that being good works because it will be mimetically copied by unsophisticated ape-like creatures who are primarily guided by imitation. The OI story imitates. As a recipe for behavior it works. Faith in the details in allegories is a path to a tragedy (given to us by the act if dying in a hole digging for an answer), and that tragedy can also be mimetically propagated (people can be recruited in the digging of holes). A bunch of people quoting texts who are not acting out the suggestion of being good leads only faction building and wars. The point was to make us avoid that at all cost. The spiritual is about "knowing thyself". What kind of animal am I? How can the knowledge of who I am be used to create a harmonious outcome for all? Those are question that mattered to the Philosophers of Alexandria who worked on the Greek texts that became later Gospels.

I personally don't like trying to rationalize the OI details, but one can do that. I don' t think there ever was a hole there that wasn't a well or a clay excavation. I but more reliance n the fact that the OI story was sniffed out for what it is in 1847. It's a sort of new take on an old story. The numeric details we are given repeat the theme of the oldest numerological schemes. Only when one doesn't have that in his tool chest does one not immediately see the parallel. OI is also about reinvention tat keeps the mystery tradition vibrant. It works as an invitation for us to study our empiric roots of knowledge by asking us why we see the repeated use of the numerology. It's not really about us believing any of it. Knowing where it comes from is a quest in itself. This is the motif of self betterment that is in Freemasonry.

 

[releventchair]

Allegory is not to be taken as willful deception, but it is a form of fiction. The stories come to us from the golden age of myth. We know they do and we can recognize in them the numerical influence of the earliest cult of numbers.

The only thing you or I were very instructed to have faith in is the idea that being good works because it will be mimetically copied by unsophisticated ape-like creatures who are primarily guided by imitation. The OI story imitates. As a recipe for behavior it works. Faith in the details in allegories is a path to a tragedy (given to us by the act if dying in a hole digging for an answer), and that tragedy can also be mimetically propagated (people can be recruited in the digging of holes). A bunch of people quoting texts who are not acting out the suggestion of being good leads only faction building and wars. The point was to make us avoid that at all cost. The spiritual is about "knowing thyself". What kind of animal am I? How can the knowledge of who I am be used to create a harmonious outcome for all? Those are question that mattered to the Philosophers of Alexandria who worked on the Greek texts that became later Gospels.

I personally don't like trying to rationalize the OI details, but one can do that. I don' t think there ever was a hole there that wasn't a well or a clay excavation. I but more reliance n the fact that the OI story was sniffed out for what it is in 1847. It's a sort of new take on an old story. The numeric details we are given repeat the theme of the oldest numerological schemes. Only when one doesn't have that in his tool chest does one not immediately see the parallel. OI is also about reinvention tat keeps the mystery tradition vibrant. It works as an invitation for us to study our empiric roots of knowledge by asking us why we see the repeated use of the numerology. It's not really about us believing any of it. Knowing where it comes from is a quest in itself. This is the motif of self betterment that is in Freemasonry.

 

[SSR]

View attachment 2186951

Yup, mimetic theory 101. That's what you want the other primitive apes to copy. Be good, or as the Roman's would have said: be Chrest. Chrest has the meaning of "the Good one" in honorific Latin titles. The early pre Christian Church followers we referred to as chrestians in some of the Greek texts that still survive. The Philosophy was very close to Stoicism. Don't live life with revenge or retribution in your heart, because that is a recipe for the wrong stuff to be put out to be copied. We never learned the moral of the lesson, and it cost Western European society all that it cost them during the 30 years wars in Europe. It's hard to believe that the bloodiest wars imaginable were fought about who was the best kind of Christian. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees. The ruler here certainly applies to Freemasonry. The point of that was also to turn people into good people. You had to go beyond the 3rd degree to be presented with the Christianized version of this in the Holy Royal Arch adjunct degree. The 4 Taus (T) of the Holy Royal Arch Emblem are the inspiration for the mystery in 40 represented at OI. 40=four tee. Was there ever a hole dug and made to contain all this detail? Not likely. One was adorned with it. The quest is for us to be good men/women and to not be lost in the pursuit of accumulations of "wealth" that foster jealousy and want. It's not a bad story to be trying to keep alive.