How about an honest answer...F-75 and Explorer users..

[Danimal]

Hi Greg , I read all your posts at all forums. (You get around haha)

I had this exact same doubt not long after getting my DFX. Thinking I was not
getting deep enough , afraid I was missing goodies. Well, I was, but not because
the DFX didnt see them, but that I didnt know what I was listening and looking for.

Try this once or twice and see if it doesnt help change your mind. It really did for me.

Sweep Speed 1 ( and go nice , slow and deliberate)
Recovery 10-15
Hot Rock Reject 20
BottleCap reject 1
Accept ALL from like neg.70 to +93
And get the PreAmp to 4 if possible
AC 75-80 DC 40-50 ( back down AC if erratic behavior no lower than 70)
Ground Balance thoroughly, twice to be sure.. over clean ground.
ToneID ON Filters 4 (play with these, important part of deep hunting)

The rest to preference mostly. Using this setup, search an area like you
"know" there is 10 inch deep coins. When you hear a high tone, investigate it.
Pinpoint that sucker in DC mode, and see if its coin sized and how deep.

I find quite a few deep wheats and silvers that sound like crap... but I didnt know
before, that they would sound like crap ! With those settings , when you hear
a high tone, even mixed in occasionally with other tones and nulls - check it out
if its 5+ inches. Just the other day, I had the worst sounding hunk of crap signal
ever, only 5 inches. Didnt barely register on the Signagraph, crackled and nulled
50% the passes... but every other pass, I got that sweet chirp. Dug it up and there
she was, a nice Merc... only 5 inches deep. Yet the next signal I got was 7 inches,
and blaring an 80 on the meter , plain as day easy signal, and it was a Wheat penny.

I determined the dry ground, powerlines above me, and some iron/trash debri in the
area was skewing my signal, and almost fooled me on that dime.

Trust me, I know the Explorer guys get deep coins ! But just ask them, if that 10" deep
mercury dime, came in loud and clear LOL... it most likely was not even close to a
great signal, but they knew what to listen for anyway.

Also, yes people find stuff 12" down. I gotta laugh even thinking about it though. I have
rarely, barely ever, detected a spot where after 7-8 inches, the ground stayed even diggable.
I detect 100 year old homes all the time, and 8 inches down, hit original base clay dirt from
when the dang house was built ! Maybe farmer fields and battle grounds etc I could find
deeper stuff, but 100 years or so old coins in my neck of the woods, are all 4-6 inches. Eight
inches is friggen deep !!

Sorry about this long book I wrote LOL. Just hate to see you switch , and then find the same
exact scenario. My problem, same as yours I believe, was that I was so used to finding clad
so easily, and it sounds so good ALL the time, that I thought a 7 inch silver dime would sound
as good,and sweet. It absolutely "wont". But once you know what it really does sound like
when deep, its just as sweet predicting a good find, with non-traditional sounds and readings.

For example... have you ever swung 20 times over one target, and got Null null null..chirp, null
null, null, null chirp. No Signagraph reading barely at all, with an intermittent random number ID ?
I do all the time. I pinpoint, see coin size, and 5+ inch, and dig. Occasionally its an old
nail or random thing, but alot of times, its the real deal... keeper Thats just how it is I figure !
In any case, I detected it, dug it, and found it, with the DFX. It didnt jump out and say "1902 Barber
here", but did enough to let me get it.

Dont give up yet At least try one, or compare. If I do and find better results , then I will probably
change brands too, but I see no reason to currently. The Explorers just have a neat way of
picking out keepers that are masked by iron or trash easier. I think thats why they find alot
in hunted areas... not so much the depth involved, but nabbing the ID from a masked target. All
those are still sitting around all over the world, because other machines didnt distinguish the good
target sitting by a chunk of iron. BTW, the DFX can be setup to seperate targets very well in trashy areas. I sacrifice depth hunting all the time, and pick out good stuff sitting in 20 million pull tabs.

Good luck in whatever you do, and keep us posted. Let us know if you try the above settings and how
you liked it. Cya !

Man. That was one of the best written, most insightful postings I have read on TNet in a while. And right on the money about the DFX. I hunt with an Explorer user (Mirage) and I know that the ML also gets unstable on real deep targets. It's just that the advanced ML users STILL interpret the sounds clearly listening for that flute. I have learned that get ANY type of audible identifier on deep coins with the DFX the thing has to me run practically unstable as far as EMI sensitivity and feedback. I find all my targets in pinpoint first and then listen to the AC sounds. That also allows better definition for picking multiple targets apart quickly, before allowing AC to combine all that data and trigger all that noise. IN DC pinpoint the DFX will go as deep as ANY machine and it's there that a small deep target is first choosen to listen to with tone. Sometimes I will even scrape some topsoil off (if feasible...like woods hunting) to get a better tone ID from a deepie.
I've done very well hunting like this. Even when in an area where PLENTY of shallow coins exist...maybe some even silver era....I'll still stay in DC and while still memorizing where shallow small targets are for a quick (and surefire ID in AC) listen again for those deep small targets that just barely get the pinpoint threshold tone to rise and then fall away quickly, regardless of sweep speed. THOSE targets become exciting if you then switch back to AC and, like Raptor said, get even a slight warble of clear high tones. Ignore the wandering VDI#...watch the signagraph and listen.
Here's what I am running. I like it hot. (this rarely gets turned down even in high EMI areas because it's only in AC for the time it takes to try to ID.

AUDIO THRESHOLD 0-42 10
TONE 0-255 173
AUDIO DISC. ON/OFF ON
SILENT SEARCH ON/OFF OFF
MIXED-MODE ON/OFF OFF
AC SENSITIVITY 1-85 83 (or peg it if soil's moist and no EMI around)
DC SENSITIVITY 1-60 46
BACKLITE 0-6 0
VIEWING ANGLE 1-50 25
RATCHET PINPOINT ON/OFF OFF
S.A.T. SPED 0-10 10
TONE ID ON/OFF ON
V.C.O. ON/OFF ON
MODULATION ON/OFF OFF
AUTOTRAC ON/OFF ON
TRACK VIEW ON/OFF OFF
AUTOTRAC SPEED 1-20 8
AUTOTRAC OFFSET -10 +20 0
TRACK INHIBIT ON/OFF ON
COARSE G.E.B. 0-255 Auto
FINE G.E.B. 0-255 Auto
DISC. EDIT -95-+95 Accept -40 to +95
BLOCK EDIT -95-+95 Reject -95 to -41
LEARN ACCEPT ON/OFF OFF
LEARN REJECT ON/OFF OFF
RECOVERY SPEED 1-40 28
BOTTLECAP REJECT 1-20 1
HOT ROCK REJECT 0-20 10
SWEEP SPEED 1-20 7
GROUND FILTERING 2-6 4
VISUAL DISC. ON/OFF OFF
ICONS ON/OFF ON (dunno why I still like to see what they are thinking)
V.D.I.SENSITIVITY 0-99 85
DC PHASE ON/OFF OFF
GRAPH AVERAGING ON/OFF ON
GRAPH ACCUMULATE ON/OFF ON
FADE RATE 1-14 11
PREAMP GAIN 1-4 4
2 FREQUENCY (BEST DATA) ON/OFF-ON
2 FREQUENCY (CORRELATE) ON/OFF-OFF
VDI NORMALIZED ON/OFF ON
1 FREQUENCY (3kHz) ON/OFF OFF
1 FREQUENCY (15khz) ON/OFF OFF

 

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[DFX-SE Gregg]

Thanks will give it a shot...today the 45 merc I found was using a modified deep silver program...the signal was weak and broken even though it was only 5.0 deep...this is what is starting to bother me....

 

[diggerfororo]

Hi Gregg:

I have read this post from top to bottom and it is one of the best I have read BUT! Nobody has mentioned that your machine may not be able to get those deep targets.(Which I think you have implied. )
Not all machines of the same model are created equal. Just because John doe's machine can find a silver dime at 7 inches with a certain program, doesn't mean yours will. I am not tooting my horn about the machine I use but I have hunted with ML and Whites users and they can't get any deeper than I can. The ML has one advantage that the other machines don't. The width of the signal pattern at it's max depth is wider than any other machine. This gives you better odds of hitting a target at that depth. I use a 15+ yearold Fisher CZ6 prototype, one of 12 made before they went into production and it is the best I can find anywhere. I could buy any machine I want but have chosen to stick with what I think is the best. There are many reasons why I like this machine:besides I have used it for over 15 years. I hope this will help you decide what to do with your machine.

Les

 

[RaptorSE]

Good job on the Merc, and I know what you mean about the dime and a weak broken signal.
If anything bothers me, its exactly that also. You know what is funny about that though, is
that if you back the machine off to PreAmp 2, lower all sensitivity stuff to bone solid stable, and
recheck those, they will be great signals.

I think I have come to realize that the DFX has the power to go deep as ever, in certain circumstances with
juiced up settings, but in general, less PreAmp and Less AC will "ID" the midrange 5-8 inch coins 10x better. Maybe lose that last inch or two of depth on a real deep one, but up to the range you are talking about... you seriously dont need even close to hot settings at all. (I have a very hard time lowering mine too though... its a mental thing lol)

Greg, seriously try this, you will be amazed. Set your machine at Preamp 2, and very safe AC and VDI settings. And wave some coins under the coil.... and wait until you see how deep it still goes. Heck,I read all the time of finds at 9-10" at PreAmp 2. The DFX setup to borderline unstable, actually gets less performance alot of the time. The hotter the setup, the more the ground, iron, minerals,EMI and everything else responds as well. Which in turn screws up ID and signals.

Also to Danimal, man, you just gave me some great ideas, that I never thought about before. I cant believe I havent gridded small areas in DC for deep targets, then checked in motion mode. Its genius if your in a good spot. Ill be doing this ASAP

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Hi Gregg:

I have read this post from top to bottom and it is one of the best I have read BUT! Nobody has mentioned that your machine may not be able to get those deep targets.(Which I think you have implied. )
Not all machines of the same model are created equal. Just because John doe's machine can find a silver dime at 7 inches with a certain program, doesn't mean yours will. I am not tooting my horn about the machine I use but I have hunted with ML and Whites users and they can't get any deeper than I can. The ML has one advantage that the other machines don't. The width of the signal pattern at it's max depth is wider than any other machine. This gives you better odds of hitting a target at that depth. I use a 15+ yearold Fisher CZ6 prototype, one of 12 made before they went into production and it is the best I can find anywhere. I could buy any machine I want but have chosen to stick with what I think is the best. There are many reasons why I like this machine:besides I have used it for over 15 years. I hope this will help you decide what to do with your machine.

Les

Thanks Les....seems like you know your machine well.... I actually have been getting out more...not less as I had planned...needed a break today... I have been writing down some of the programs sent to me on diffferent forums and been trying them...not much change up to now...reducing the bottlecap reject option on my dfx did seem to help a little...but did find more bottlecaps too! If I can find a program that even shows a hit at 8.0 I will be happy...some one suggested my stock coil may be defective... The smaller coil getting me 6.5 inches I am happy with...but that is the second small coil I have had to get first one had a bad cable/broken inside coil line...

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Good job on the Merc, and I know what you mean about the dime and a weak broken signal.
If anything bothers me, its exactly that also. You know what is funny about that though, is
that if you back the machine off to PreAmp 2, lower all sensitivity stuff to bone solid stable, and
recheck those, they will be great signals.

I think I have come to realize that the DFX has the power to go deep as ever, in certain circumstances with
juiced up settings, but in general, less PreAmp and Less AC will "ID" the midrange 5-8 inch coins 10x better. Maybe lose that last inch or two of depth on a real deep one, but up to the range you are talking about... you seriously dont need even close to hot settings at all. (I have a very hard time lowering mine too though... its a mental thing lol)

Greg, seriously try this, you will be amazed. Set your machine at Preamp 2, and very safe AC and VDI settings. And wave some coins under the coil.... and wait until you see how deep it still goes. Heck,I read all the time of finds at 9-10" at PreAmp 2. The DFX setup to borderline unstable, actually gets less performance alot of the time. The hotter the setup, the more the ground, iron, minerals,EMI and everything else responds as well. Which in turn screws up ID and signals.

Also to Danimal, man, you just gave me some great ideas, that I never thought about before. I cant believe I havent gridded small areas in DC for deep targets, then checked in motion mode. Its genius if your in a good spot. Ill be doing this ASAP

Honestly I tried gain at 2...gain at 3...my silver coins are coming in with gain at 4...only one last week at 3....and that was when the gain at 4 left the threshold unstable and i backed off ac sens. also... I think some of the advice about accepting some of the ferrous signals below zero is worth a shot...also will try danimals settings this week...

 

[dewcon4414]

Greg, if you are like me, in those fairly new parks you are hunting too fast, just because the DFX can. I see that large hunting area and want to cover as much as possible. Habits are hard to break. Our coils are different than the minelabs standard coil. It takes in more and has more to seperate. Deep our cone shaped foot has to pass over the coin... but if the explorer guys move too quickly... they miss it because of the thin foot. Im still debating if i want to find that occassional silver coin or pick up more of those rings. Because i just think the explorer is not any better than the DFX at 5 inchs where i find a good many rings. Ive hunted with explorer guys on the beach. They find deep (18") targets... where i found smaller ones and about 3 to 4" shallower. I think for me if Whites would get a good noise reduction system and less more stable VDI numbers, without wrap around, id be ok.

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Greg, if you are like me, in those fairly new parks you are hunting too fast, just because the DFX can. I see that large hunting area and want to cover as much as possible. Habits are hard to break. Our coils are different than the minelabs standard coil. It takes in more and has more to seperate. Deep our cone shaped foot has to pass over the coin... but if the explorer guys move too quickly... they miss it because of the thin foot. Im still debating if i want to find that occassional silver coin or pick up more of those rings. Because i just think the explorer is not any better than the DFX at 5 inchs where i find a good many rings. Ive hunted with explorer guys on the beach. They find deep (18") targets... where i found smaller ones and about 3 to 4" shallower. I think for me if Whites would get a good noise reduction system and less more stable VDI numbers, without wrap around, id be ok.

Honestly I hunt very very slow...cover small areas and always plan on returning to a park at least 10-20 times... I am copying the programs people have sent me on the various forums and will be testing over the next few days... I have seen a couple guys flying thru this older park I hunt...with the coil being near the ground only when directly in front of them with careless swings and going to fast.... But I cannot be happy knowing my detector is not getting signals past 6.5... I see to many guys hitting deeper coins...with those explorers...I want in! In my mind....I just really believe everywhere I go there are coins....even if some areas turn out bad...

 

[Willy]

Figured that I'd add my 2 cents here. One of the reasons that Explorers/Sov's get such good separation in trash is 'cause they use DD coils.. stick one on your DFX and the separation will dramatically improve. Another thing to consider is that you can crank up the sensitivity of your detector (with a DD and in bad ground) and get potentially much better depth than with a concentric coil. One other thing that might be hampering your ability to find deep coins is that, with a concentric coil, the 'footprint' might be sooo wide and long that shallow (iron) targets are masking the deeper ones to some extent.. maybe just enough to bump down the ID on the deepies. ..Willy.

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Figured that I'd add my 2 cents here. One of the reasons that Explorers/Sov's get such good separation in trash is 'cause they use DD coils.. stick one on your DFX and the separation will dramatically improve. Another thing to consider is that you can crank up the sensitivity of your detector (with a DD and in bad ground) and get potentially much better depth than with a concentric coil. One other thing that might be hampering your ability to find deep coins is that, with a concentric coil, the 'footprint' might be sooo wide and long that shallow (iron) targets are masking the deeper ones to some extent.. maybe just enough to bump down the ID on the deepies. ..Willy.

Thanks Willy...the next coil I am goin to try is a dd...the 6 x 10...

 

[DIRTSWEEPER]

Hey hey, figured I would add to this since I am a Minelab Quattro user. Its much like the explorer but has been made alot more simple to use. Willy is right in the way of the DD coil being better in trash, but it also doesnt get smaller at the lower depth. The DD sends a bar shaped signal the lenth of the coil, and rather narrow, and has no cone shape like the concentrics do. Also the minelabs mentioned run quite a few freq rather than one or two, also giving them an edge over some others. The DD coil is the way to go if you wanna swing a whites for sure, but still think the good trash seperation is due to multiple freq discrimination. I have read that people had a hard time in trash filled spots, and have to say I make alot of finds with a chunk of rusty whatever in the same hole as my keepers. Hope you figure out the best solution.........HH L8R


HOWLOW

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Hey hey, figured I would add to this since I am a Minelab Quattro user. Its much like the explorer but has been made alot more simple to use. Willy is right in the way of the DD coil being better in trash, but it also doesnt get smaller at the lower depth. The DD sends a bar shaped signal the lenth of the coil, and rather narrow, and has no cone shape like the concentrics do. Also the minelabs mentioned run quite a few freq rather than one or two, also giving them an edge over some others. The DD coil is the way to go if you wanna swing a whites for sure, but still think the good trash seperation is due to multiple freq discrimination. I have read that people had a hard time in trash filled spots, and have to say I make alot of finds with a chunk of rusty whatever in the same hole as my keepers. Hope you figure out the best solution.........HH L8R


HOWLOW

Thanks actually trash is not my problem though...depth is...the dfx is a killer in trash often plucking coins from same hole as trash! The little 6 inch in diameter 5.3 Eclipse is fantastic....it does it all...works great... The stock coil is my concern...trash separation not much obviously not to be expected with a larger coil...but depth of only 6.5 is the problem with it... I am happy with the depth of 6.5 on the smaller 5.3 coil..thanks...

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

DFX-Gregg, I think I know what your problem is. In the past year, you set a goal to surpass 10,000 coins. What is that telling you? Well, buddy, to achieve that goal in a timely manner, you were probably "speed" detecting. That means, you were not listening for that slight variation in the signal tone that indicates a super deep coin, kind of like my good buddy, Captn_SE, does.

DFX-Gregg, you already have a good machine, so why do you want to change? I seriously don't believe you understand that DFX as much as you believe you do, kind of like my good buddy, Captn_SE, understands his SE. Gregg, before you make another detector choice, I would advise you to learn how to tweak your DFX. Or, if you want super depth, purchase the new 12" Spider coil.

Just my two cents worth of metal detecting advice.

Bone Dry Detecting...Kirk

 

[strike it rich]

I recently had a covervsion with a gentleman and was telling him that I was planning on getting a minelab guess what he said why dont' you get a fisher f75 go figure

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

DFX-Gregg, I think I know what your problem is. In the past year, you set a goal to surpass 10,000 coins. What is that telling you? Well, buddy, to achieve that goal in a timely manner, you were probably "speed" detecting. That means, you were not listening for that slight variation in the signal tone that indicates a super deep coin, kind of like my good buddy, Captn_SE, does.

DFX-Gregg, you already have a good machine, so why do you want to change? I seriously don't believe you understand that DFX as much as you believe you do, kind of like my good buddy, Captn_SE, understands his SE. Gregg, before you make another detector choice, I would advise you to learn how to tweak your DFX. Or, if you want super depth, purchase the new 12" Spider coil.

Just my two cents worth of metal detecting advice.

Bone Dry Detecting...Kirk

Well I a trying all the programs I can find...no difference yet...none... And usually I do hunt slow...but will go even slower and dig more questionable signals... Recovering a lot of coins does not necessarily mean you are going fast...it could be that you are digging the right signals also...A few have suggested my stock coil may be the problem...

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

So, if you change to a different brand (e.g., Minelab, Fisher, Garrett, etc.), will you change your name? For example, after a possible F75 purchase, would you become "F75-Gregg"?

Bone Dry Detecting...zoyster

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

So, if you change to a different brand (e.g., Minelab, Fisher, Garrett, etc.), will you change your name? For example, after a possible F75 purchase, would you become "F75-Gregg"?

Bone Dry Detecting...zoyster

Yes! Here is a possible list!

dfx explorer Gregg

Gregg's f-75

how do they sound? Seriously I am keeping dfx just would like to add another...one that will hit 8.0 when it needs to running some new programs in morning with dfx ...will see...if any difference...not confident after air tests....

 

[RaptorSE]

Not confident after air-tests... that doesn't sound good at all.

What were your findings, as I just did some airtests with my Wedding band,
and I get a "super" good signal at 15"

Im in the middle of coin air tests between stock and Super 12, and will post it
when all is done and recorded.

What kind of findings did you get? - sounds like disappointment, in which case,
maybe something "is" wrong with the equip. Let us know ! DFX should air test
pretty impressively from what Ive seen and read about as well.

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

DFX-Gregg, I heard that the F-75 will super deep. Maybe you should get it!

Bone Dry Detecting...Kirk

 

[RaptorSE]

Ok, here are some preliminary airtest results of just the Super 12 so far. I will make a
complete fact finding post for the Reviews section when all done, but for now, will
share some info so far.

Super 12 air tests on Silver coins with DFX. After various freq.trials with different results, I used a
very hot 3khz only, as it got best distance on the silver... no doubt.

Silver Quarter diggable signal at 12-13 inches. Only 10-11 inches in Best Data. 8-9 on 15khz.
Mercury Dime (a thin one) , diggable signal at 10-11 inches, Best Data 9-10, 15khz barely a 7"

*my wedding band (gold), came in best in 15khz of course, and a very well measured 13.75 inches.
I guess my 15 inches quote earlier was a little high, but still very good. Best data on this was around 13".

Will report stock coil when I get the chance to do that.

DFXGregg - I had one major eye opening discovery, that made me slap my forehead... The settings
I was using with Best Data, airtested waaay less. There is definite loss of depth from using a Multi frequency mode in airtests anyway. The settings I was using, saw the Quarter at 9". Thats 4 inches less !!!! Id say for silver coins, use 3khz only, and get your AC and PreAmp as high as possible.

All the above data, was for a diggable signal at search speeds. After recording the distance, I was
able to pick up good signals at even further, by sweeping very fast back and forth. This would be
good to do on iffy targets, to get a better reading possibly when actually hunting.

Well, thats it for now. If anyone has any data from tests they actually performed, how do these numbers compare ? Good, bad, average ?