History Channel Story On Jesse James, KGC, And Found Coins

[okietreasurehunter]

Back to the thread..... While it was an entertaining show it raised more questions than it answered. It left me a little disappointed in the History Channel as most of the show was mere speculation with nothing for proof that could be verified. I'm betting that they won't be working with Mr. Pastore in the future though. I'd also lay money on the fact nothing close to a KGC vault will be recovered at the spot they were digging.

 

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[Texas Jay]

Jealousy? I don't think that has anything to do with it. Pastore is an idiot that doens't know anything about treasure hunting except what he makes up or steals from other people.

The so called treasures were planted and that should be very obvious to everyone. He was using the information from a known fraud and con man as his "facts" on Jesse James and just about everything he said about the property he was on is untrue.

Add in the fact he apparently couldn't run a gpr to save his life, or a metal detector for that matter, and the whole thing turns into a sham of gigantic proportions.

Will You Please Report Every Post that Says this ?
attacking People on TreasureNet is Against Our Rules.

THANK YOU !
JEFF

Thank you, Jeff. Your mailbox may be full with all the insulting and derogatory messages aimed at me recently...just for believing what I believe. And, yes, I do believe the Pastore finds are authentic KGC.
~Texas Jay

 

[okietreasurehunter]

or his mailbox may be full of all the things you've said about other people Jay.

 

[jeff of pa]

Jealousy? I don't think that has anything to do with it. Pastore is an idiot that doens't know anything about treasure hunting except what he makes up or steals from other people.

The so called treasures were planted and that should be very obvious to everyone. He was using the information from a known fraud and con man as his "facts" on Jesse James and just about everything he said about the property he was on is untrue.

Add in the fact he apparently couldn't run a gpr to save his life, or a metal detector for that matter, and the whole thing turns into a sham of gigantic proportions.

Will You Please Report Every Post that Says this ?
attacking People on TreasureNet is Against Our Rules.

THANK YOU !
JEFF

Thank you, Jeff. Your mailbox may be full with all the insulting and derogatory messages aimed at me recently...just for believing what I believe. And, yes, I do believe the Pastore finds are authentic KGC.
~Texas Jay

not a word till now Jay

guess I opened a worm Hole with My Comments
but in My opinion YES Believers in Treasure
Do get Priority over Naysayers With me Simply
because this is a treasure Hunting site.
And Especially if the Naysayers overdo it
by making accusations.

Treasure Hunters don't need to Prove anything they feel
they need to keep under their Hats.

Naysayers need to prove Negatives .

 

[jeff of pa]

ok, there is SOMETHING very STRANGE going on here with this WHOLE subject/topic/thread...

All I'm sayin'




It doesn't smell right.

there is influence being exercised.....

Lot of "coincidences", posts disappearing, stuff like that..

nothing disappearing that is on subject

 

[alec]

Jealousy? I don't think that has anything to do with it. Pastore is an idiot that doens't know anything about treasure hunting except what he makes up or steals from other people.

The so called treasures were planted and that should be very obvious to everyone. He was using the information from a known fraud and con man as his "facts" on Jesse James and just about everything he said about the property he was on is untrue.

Add in the fact he apparently couldn't run a gpr to save his life, or a metal detector for that matter, and the whole thing turns into a sham of gigantic proportions.

Will You Please Report Every Post that Says this ?
attacking People on TreasureNet is Against Our Rules.

THANK YOU !
JEFF

Thank you, Jeff. Your mailbox may be full with all the insulting and derogatory messages aimed at me recently...just for believing what I believe. And, yes, I do believe the Pastore finds are authentic KGC.
~Texas Jay

not a word till now Jay

guess I opened a worm Hole with My Comments
but in My opinion YES Believers in Treasure
Do get Priority over Naysayers With me Simply
because this is a treasure Hunting site.
And Especially if the Naysayers overdo it
by making accusations.

Treasure Hunters don't need to Prove anything they feel
they need to keep under their Hats.

Naysayers need to prove Negatives .

You're kidding me right? Me, a naysayer against treasure? Come on Jeff, I write for a treasure hunting blog, http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/, I treasure hunt myself and am getting ready to start doing it on a full time basis next month. I'm a long way from being a naysayer. I just don't agree with certain things about the KGC and that shouldn't make me a naysayer, just somebody that does research.

Naysayers need to prove negatives? I've been putting up proof for a long time now but apparently it goes ignored. I think the ones that need to prove something are the ones making the outrageous claims that CAN"T be proven. I and others have put up more information than you can imagine on why the KGC depositories don't/can't exist but NOBODY, THAT'S NOBODY has put up any proof that they do exist but that is apparently OK with you. Hmmmmm.

 

[jeff of pa]

You're kidding me right? Me, a naysayer against treasure? Come on Jeff, I write for a treasure hunting blog, http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/, I treasure hunt myself and am getting ready to start doing it on a full time basis next month. I'm a long way from being a naysayer. I just don't agree with certain things about the KGC and that shouldn't make me a naysayer, just somebody that does research.

Naysayers need to prove negatives? I've been putting up proof for a long time now but apparently it goes ignored. I think the ones that need to prove something are the ones making the outrageous claims that CAN"T be proven. I and others have put up more information than you can imagine on why the KGC depositories don't/can't exist but NOBODY, THAT'S NOBODY has put up any proof that they do exist but that is apparently OK with you. Hmmmmm.

Alec your a Treasure hunter, That's fine.
I stand by my statement for those who seem to
sign up just to Cause trouble. and Call treasure hunters fools.

& don't seem to believe in anything.

 

[alec]

Jeff, you have me a little confused.

It appeared that you were aiming you comments at me but now you aren't? It would be my opinion that some of the true believers are here for the same reason as those you are calling naysayers.

Forums are for discussion and I would agree with you that if a treasure hunter has some information they don't want to share there is no reason to share it but you seemed to have specifically picked on the individuals that don't believe in the KGC mega-bucks depositories. I would say that with our research, our side of the discussion is just as valid (actually more valid) than those of the believers. To say we need to put up proof but others don't seems to be one sided at best, especially since the proof has been put up for all to see.

Am I reading what you are saying wrong?

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

You're kidding me right? Me, a naysayer against treasure? Come on Jeff, I write for a treasure hunting blog, http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/, I treasure hunt myself and am getting ready to start doing it on a full time basis next month. I'm a long way from being a naysayer. I just don't agree with certain things about the KGC and that shouldn't make me a naysayer, just somebody that does research.

Naysayers need to prove negatives? I've been putting up proof for a long time now but apparently it goes ignored. I think the ones that need to prove something are the ones making the outrageous claims that CAN"T be proven. I and others have put up more information than you can imagine on why the KGC depositories don't/can't exist but NOBODY, THAT'S NOBODY has put up any proof that they do exist but that is apparently OK with you. Hmmmmm.

Alec your a Treasure hunter, That's fine.
I stand by my statement for those who seem to
sign up just to Cause trouble. and Call treasure hunters fools.

& don't seem to believe in anything.

I want to start out by saying that Okie and ALec are two of the most helpful and friendliest people I know on here.
Now with that said.
This is a forum and regardless if you agree with me or not, this is overall a place to share ideas and views. If I disagree with someone this is still a place to do that. I havent read one time where someone said hey your treasure is bogus. I have seen where people tried debating history in itself. I think if you are trying to rewrite history then you should show proof. or if you say someone is wrong you should back that up with proof if you want to have credibility amongst your peers and yes we all share treasure hunting interest and that makes us peers.

 

[jeff of pa]

Jeff, you have me a little confused.

It appeared that you were aiming you comments at me but now you aren't? It would be my opinion that some of the true believers are here for the same reason as those you are calling naysayers.

Forums are for discussion and I would agree with you that if a treasure hunter has some information they don't want to share there is no reason to share it but you seemed to have specifically picked on the individuals that don't believe in the KGC mega-bucks depositories. I would say that with our research, our side of the discussion is just as valid (actually more valid) than those of the believers. To say we need to put up proof but others don't seems to be one sided at best, especially since the proof has been put up for all to see.

Am I reading what you are saying wrong?

This post is about the KGC Show so I tried to
stay as close to that as possable.

I Do Believe your comments on the Treasure should be welcome
Because you apparently do know what your Talking about.

I Still Don't want you to Put anyone down.
This is where I Had my Problem with your Comments.

 

[alec]

I try my best not to put people down but there are some people that just draw that ire. Pastore is one of them by perpetrating his fraud upon the public, all to make himself famous and try to make some easy money. I just want people to pay attention and be careful in who they deal with. When people get over zealous they can get careless.

As much as I hate to advertise the show, I would ask that you watch the entire show and pay close attention to the details and I am sure you will draw some, if not all of the same conclusions a lot of us already have.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Jeff, I would think people on both sides of the aisle would get equal footing. If someone is making outrageous claims about treasure, shouldn't that person be just as responsible to prove their claim as the person arguing against it?

Yes this is a treasure site but that doesn't mean the "naysayers" can't pose questions or make comments. Jeff from the post you have made I feel that you are being biased towards those of us who don't go along with the unproven claims of KGC treasure. My opinion is just as valuable as anyone who is a "believer" isn't it?

 

[Texas Jay]

I'd sure think that members who believe KGC treasure is all "outlaw loot" would be spending their time under the subforum dealing with outlaws rather than trying to discourage treasure hunters who want to learn more about the KGC and their treasures on this subforum. But maybe that's just me thinking too much. I always love to try to figure out what motivates people.
~Texas Jay

 

[okietreasurehunter]

I think buried treasure comes from many different venues. Outlaw, Spanish,Jesuit, Mexican, Native American, etc, etc. I try to figure out how some people think every treasure is KGC. Once again, as it has already been stated, people will learn more by hearing both sides of the story, researching for themselves, and making their own choice. I'm on the KGC forum to give information for the otherside. I offer information that shows Orvus Lee Howk as a fraud. Howk is a pivital figure among the KGC crowd and is the original source of the KGC megacaches.

 

[Texas Jay]

Proving Orvus Lee Howk was dishonest and motivated by money is not a hard thing to do. What is difficult, and much more important, is to determine when Howk was accurately repeating what Jesse W. James told him and what many other honest people confirmed as being the truth about Jesse James and the Knights of the Golden Circle. I agree with you, okie, that buried treasure comes from many different groups of people like you mention but the KGC also knew about many of these old treasure stories and legends and they had the manpower and the know-how to find some of them and add them to their own treasury.
~Texas Jay

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Once again, forensics prove that a picture of Dalton and the historically accepted photos of Jesse James don't match up. If Dalton wasn't Jesse, and there is more than enough proof to verify that, then anything Howk is passing along as KGC has to be taken with a grain of salt. You of course are on the side of the coin which believes Dalton was Jesse. This once again shows why there needs to be an opposing view on this forum. We both can't be right about J Frank Dalton, so people can look at information provided by both sides, do their own research, and make up their minds. It's not hard to prove what Dalton told Howk. Look at Howks letters and stories in and before 1954 and then after 1955. You can see a progression in how his story changes all the way up to the Black Book.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

To keep in line with this thread, the treasure maps Pastore kept flipping through came from Houk and are the same ones I've posted here on tnet. I recognized the maps right away. What makes me do some wondering is why did the History Channel throw Dalton under the bus as being Jesse James yet allow Pastore to use the maps as a show piece when they supposedly came from what Dalton told Howk?

 

[alec]

I'd sure think that members who believe KGC treasure is all "outlaw loot" would be spending their time under the subforum dealing with outlaws rather than trying to discourage treasure hunters who want to learn more about the KGC and their treasures on this subforum. But maybe that's just me thinking too much. I always love to try to figure out what motivates people.
~Texas Jay

I don't think anyone has said that "KGC treasure" is "outlaw loot". I think what has been said is that there is no KGC treasure as it regards to the mega-bucks depositories. What I think you are referring to is that the symbols that have been left behind as carvings may have been called outlaw or something else and not KGC. You have to admit that until some type of actual documentation surfaces (something other than Howk's imaginings) then there is no proof that the KGC put down any mega depositories or that they went searching for other treasures to make their own. That statement is directly from the playbook of the believers who scramble around trying to come up with ways for the KGC to have access to the kind of money they supposedly put in the ground. Again, there is no proof of any of that occurring.

If you have been reading the posts you would already know the motivation for the discussion. You prove it over and over again by referring to people like J. Frank Dalton as being Jesse James. He was not and this has been proven by the forensics.

 

[Texas Jay]

Alec, your opinion is not based on ALL the forensics tests that have compared authenticated photos of Jesse Woodson James with those of the man called "J. Frank Dalton". And, yes, some of us do have proof of KGC depositories. You have just not been given access to the information because you refuse to accept any proof that such stockpiles of riches exist, just as you pick and choose which "forensics" test you choose to believe. I am finally going to post a photo of the FBI letter that you say didn't exist on this forum. I post this letter from J. Edgar Hoover with the expressed written permission of the owner of this copy of that letter, Mr. Bud Hardcastle. So, see Alec, not all of the proof of who Jesse W. James was can be found on the Internet. This letter has been in the files of our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group, however, for many weeks.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[alec]

"Alec, your opinion is not based on ALL the forensics tests that have compared authenticated photos of Jesse Woodson James with those of the man called "J. Frank Dalton". And, yes, some of us do have proof of KGC depositories. You have just not been given access to the information because you refuse to accept any proof that such stockpiles of riches exist, just as you pick and choose which "forensics" test you choose to believe. I am finally going to post a photo of the FBI letter that you say didn't exist on this forum. I post this letter from J. Edgar Hoover with the expressed written permission of the owner of this copy of that letter, Mr. Bud Hardcastle. So, see Alec, not all of the proof of who Jesse W. James was can be found on the Internet. This letter has been in the files of our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group, however, for many weeks."

Well Jay it would seem you and I are in the same boat. You are ignoring the forensics I am quoting and I am ignoring yours. The difference is I have done additional research that allows me to draw a conclusion that your forensics are flawed and you blindly choose not to look at any information that may not agree with your theories.

No access huh? Does that mean you have been given access? If so, just who granted you such access, the grand poo-bah of the KGC depositories? I would think with that kind of access you would have been able to find one of those mega-bucks depositories by now.

As for you FBI letter, I don't recall ever saying it didn't exist, I think I gave you a hard time about saying you have evidence and not proving it. As for the letter itself, it is purely hearsay. The FBI clearly states that whether or not J. Frank was Jesse did not fall under their "scope of authorized jurisdiction". The only thing on the letter is typed after the fact by the man who wrote it SAYING he spoke with Hoover and was told that J. Frank was Jesse.

I wouldn't want to consider that evidence without some corroberation from a separate source, especially since the entire FBI file on Jesse James shows no such evidence and in fact, says the opposite.