History Channel - Oak Island mini series January 5, 2014

[Hot zone]

If someone benefits by the stone (motive) it must be a fake? You posted a lot of references to the existence of your nonexistent stone! Really? When a story is handed down and embellished over the years it is human nature and doesn't prove no treasure exists... The exact reasoning of the first ones to dig may have been lost to time, but they went to a lot of effort for what they believed was treasure...

 

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[Crow]

If someone benefits by the stone (motive) it must be a fake? You posted a lot of references to the existence of your nonexistent stone! Really? When a story is handed down and embellished over the years it is human nature and doesn't prove no treasure exists... The exact reasoning of the first ones to dig may have been lost to time, but they went to a lot of effort for what they believed was treasure...

hello hot zone I suggest you re read those references. Most of those references pose interesting questions. And your comment "When a story is handed down and embellished over the years it is human nature and doesn't prove no treasure exists.." Yes i can agree with you in part but it doesn't prove treasure exists either?

I have no doubt many of treasure seekers was convinced they were digging for treasure that is as no brainer

The simple fact that the origins of this alleged stone in questionable? It came about when the New Turo group in 1860's which was desperate for investors. All of sudden this George Cooke claims that Smith had told him years ago that in his cottage of a stone sone stone with inscription in a wall? Why did'nt John Smith use this info when he was chasing investors himself in 1804 1805? And it was nice and convenient that this was all said after John Smith was dead so he couldn't disagree with George Cookes claims who by the way have a vested interest the New Turo Group who stayed in the house where this stone was allegedly found?




Crow

 

[Hot zone]

Ok, one can be convicted for just having a motive, with you on the prosecution!

 

[Crow]

Hotzone

Like all treasure legends these stories always are interesting. Personally I Love them all. It would be sad world with out them to mystify us and taunt us with what if?

The Oak island Mystery still has many unanswered questions. But in the end it reminds me of old joke about a Optimist and pessimist. You can give a Pessimist a horse and he probably think there is some thing wrong with it. You can give a pile of Horse Sh.. to an optimist and he will still think there is horse under the pile of sh..

Crow

 

[Dave Rishar]

The stone existed, we don't know who made it or why and we don't know what it means...a fake stone would not prove there is no treasure... It would in fact show that someone believed enough in a treasure to fake it...

No one alive has seen the stone. There are no photographs of it. It cannot be located today. Its provenance is highly questionable. Why are you convinced that it existed when there's every indication that it never did?

As for why someone would fake, or embellish, or otherwise present things such as they aren't during one of the digs on Oak Island, I've presented a theory for that in one of these threads around here. In short, I'm willing to give the deceiver the benefit of the doubt. These were white lies. They truly were convinced that there was something worth recovering just a few feet further down; under these circumstances, "finding" something that would generate more funding would be an acceptable falsehood...except that there wasn't, and it didn't, and it wasn't, in that order. But if you're wondering why the good finds turn up right when the money's running out...well, that's probably why. (That's probably also why the things go missing shortly thereafter and never appear again. Such "finds" rarely survive professional scrutiny and are best lost as quickly as possible after they've served their purpose.)

Crow? I like where you're going with this and I greatly appreciate your efforts, but I fear that we've plowed the sea.

 

[rowanns]

I fail to comprehend, considering the absolute mess they have made of the original dig site, how anything at all would be left anyway. I am not convinced of treasure there, but I am still interested in the coconut fibres and Smith's Cove, as I think it points to activity on this island that would shed a greater light on this province's history. I really do think something was on this island - what it was, what activity it was, and who it was I just plain find intriguing. I think that quest for knowledge, that digging, is my treasure frankly. By the way, we know that pirates were well acquainted with Nova Scotia. There are hundreds upon hundreds of islands up here where anyone could hide anything without being noticed at all. I just don't see why, if I was going to hide or bury something, I would pick an island that was this close to shore and as highly visible as Oak Island. Frankly, I'd head further out and have my pick.

 

[Hot zone]

The fact that flooding prevented previous hunters from completely digging the money pit is important! It suggests that they may have been ready to solve the mystery... Completing their task, while expensive, would finally solve the riddle...not digging, would only perpetuate the myth...

 

[Eldo]

The Ark of the Covenant and temple treasures and sacred items were told to have been smuggled out of the holy land to an Arab land to the south under the care of the Coptics, when the second temple was being destroyed.......(Titus Destroyed the First), but they couldnt find the ark. The ark was placed with the grail, and the menorah and other items in the same places when these attacks were coming

It was then said that when there was turmoil in Jerusalem that they moved it to Egypt, and they moved the treasure of the Grail to medieval spain.....maybe the Ark made it there too...

She said the duo had been researching the history of some Islamic remains in the Saint Isidore basilica. But their discovery of two medieval Egyptian documents that mentioned the chalice of Christ caused them to change direction, the paper reported.

Those parchments told a tale of how Muslims took the sacred cup from the Christian community in Jerusalem to Cairo.

It was then given to an emir on Spain’s Mediterranean coast in return for help he gave to Egyptians who were suffering a famine.

The historians’ research has been backed up by scientific dating, which estimates that the cup in question was made between 200 BC and 100 AD.

The scientists admit the first 400 years of the cup’s history remain a mystery, and they can’t prove the chalice ever actually touched Christ’s lips.

But they insist there is no doubt that this is the cup that early Christians revered as the chalice used at the Last Supper.

“The only chalice that could be considered the chalice of Christ is that which made the journey to Cairo and then from Cairo to León — and that is this chalice,” said Torres, who teaches medieval history at the University of León.

the Templars also were in Spain during the 1500's and 1600's and were clearly in the know about these islands and this coast. They would have known about the grail and would have known about the menorah and ark as well, and if they were to be the ones to help rebuild the third temple, then we would be looking at this 9 Level maze created by these Spanish Knights Templars, who have been documented taking multiple ships and trips to hide "the Beloved"

......so dont forget their mission was IHS as much as the other european templars' was....and they were very influential in Spain around that time.......

I still think numerous people knew and were basically using it as a Pirate Community Stash ........it was used by

1) Spanish to hide the Beloved using the 9 step ladder of Enoch with the same design for the flood channels as well, and then
2) later by the Privateer Kidd, who obviously was privy to a ton of goods and maps from his conquests and used the island to store their goods, and then later told through the english masonic lodges
3) in the 1760's, was re-discovered by the masons who dug it up used it to fund the revolution.......

The Money pit Stone is in spanish and crafted like a templars coptic writing, the pit dug like the enochian ladder, and the traps are there to flood the tunnels, but the one side tunnel leads to another chamber that has not been evacuated to the outside air pressure, and holds its own sump cave......the most secret way

O Lord, you Supreme Trickster! What subtle artfulness you
use to do your work in this slave of yours. You hide yourself
from me and afflict me with your love. You deliver such a
delicious death that my soul would never dream of trying to avoid it.

Kidd's likeness is more evident in the stone head with pirate carved into it and the Sextant is his point of reference.....his treasure is on the island, BUT he also had another sent some leagues away, and is found through a keystone with a mark on it.


When Kidd was tried for Piracy, he had hid the treasures knowing he was being chased and illegally charged. A descendent of one of the of the Privateers on Kidd's ship was in possession of a Map to the treasure on the second island and stated the distance and the angle to match the stones, but was not able to produce the map, just the story about his relative who was shipmate to Kidd.

The Stone that has the G carved on it was a marker from when the american revolutionaries were sent there to retrieve some gold from the Money Pit that was buried there before by Kidd in another trove location on the Island........they knew about it because of associates in the Grand Lodge in London who knew about the Kidd trial, and treasure recovery efforts.

So my theory is that the templar treasure is there.....and that the other Kidd treasure is located east of the island in the next larger bay over.....where only Satan and Myself will find it.

 

[Dave Rishar]

I suppose that one method to make all of the different theories (with their sometimes contradictory evidence) work together is to assume that they're all simultaneously correct, but that seems a bit contrived. However, this brings up an interesting point that I'd overlooked earlier.

One treasure theory involves the Freemasons and a supposed treasure trove intended to finance the American revolution. This one is intriguing because it's possible to nail down some facts here, as the financing of the revolution is no mystery. The efforts of Congress to fund the war (or rather, its chronic inability to do so) very nearly doomed the whole effort; as it was, many people were burned when their near-worthless paper currency was finally redeemed, creditors didn't receive their money for decades after the war was over, and France bankrupted itself even more quickly than it otherwise would have. If there was a treasure meant to fund the war, it was far smaller than most believe, or it was spent on something else.

 

[Eldo]

Funny you should say that.....spent on something else. This is so funny considering a few debates that I have gotten into recently

Im sure that men sent to recover this treasure knew what it was paying for.....

The Revolutionaries under Washington's Command were all paid in Silver by the first president under the Articles of Confederation.......John Hanson.......

General G. Washington was the man who laid the G in the stone on Oak Island himself. It was his mission to recover this treasure of the trove of silver left by Kidd........and it was known of the location by the Mason's that Kidd entrusted this knowledge to......after he was tried and sentenced to death....the mystery in the novel with the map resembling these triangulated points on the map were clearly similar to the T, as some other Acadia treasures were also known to be buried on the "Treasure Island" we know now as Oak Island from notes scripted in numerous Pouissan works (sp?)

his trial, and refusal to accept evidence led to his murder by the British, to save face in Parliament of their pirating and looting. This was one of only one stabs at the foundation of the integrity of the Grand Lodge and its branch the Freemason's in the Colonies.....Kidd was a well respected and Innocent man, as he had even Mutineers aboard his ships, and faced numerous conflicts, while maintaining a series of transports and transfers of goods to a safe place before his surrender to men who were sent to collect him.

He was sure to send correspondences to the appropriate men, due to the nature of the accusations and because of the instability of the Kingdom under the grips of the greed and control by Parliament. These signs were the first things to come for the colonists, who would be later thrust into conflict at the hands of a Democratic agreement, that was made to arrange for the resurrection of the Kidd Treasure and the payment of that Silver to the men after serving in the Revolutionary War.

I am sure that these locations that they went to investigate after Kidd's arrest were not the only troves left behind.

I still think that the first Pit crafted like Enoch's Ladder is the sacred Beloved or one of the Distraction Pits they were said to have made.....something like 40+ ships were sent out to hide this treasure.

Then the other part would fit the Kidd description of timing and events, matching this Treasure Map in the novel that is similar to these Oak Island stones as guidestones, to the Kidd Cache.

What the third treasure that the History Channel wanderers are claiming to be looking for, was described to them in the first series as a map belonging to one of the descendents of the Kidd Shipmates, who told of another treasure some leagues away from the first, at a 7 degree pitch on the "sextant" from the middle stone of the sextant stone triangle

The line drawn leads to a rocky island that is perfect for a hidden treasure, "Where only Satan and Myself would know"

This number 8 looking mark on the rock is this KeyStone. The guidestone to the second trove of Kidd and Crew.......

View attachment 1033128

 

[Dave Rishar]

Funny you should say that.....spent on something else. This is so funny considering a few debates that I have gotten into recently

Why is it funny? If it had been spent on the revolution, it certainly didn't amount to much. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. You don't issue worthless paper money, pay your starving soldiers in land instead of cash, solicit donations from wealthy people, and badger foreign nations into assisting you when you're sitting on a treasure trove. You do all of that stuff when you're broke...which they were.

Unless it was spent on something else, of course.

Im sure that men sent to recover this treasure knew what it was paying for.....

Presumably it wasn't paying for provisioning them at Valley Forge.

The Revolutionaries under Washington's Command were all paid in Silver by the first president under the Articles of Confederation.......John Hanson.......

What were they paid after a year? When they received pay (or rather if, not when), it was late. Some of them wound up with land instead. Paying soldiers with land is not the action of a well-funded organization. It's the action of a desperate organization. Likewise, well-funded organizations do not issue worthless paper money, drive up inflation, literally beg for loans, or worry about blockades. Well-funded organizations do not credit their success to foreign intervention. This one did all of that, and more.

To go further, well-funded organizations do not levy taxes to the point of instigating rebellions after the fact in order to pay off their debts. Again, this one did. It seems to me that money was a problem for them.

General G. Washington was the man who laid the G in the stone on Oak Island himself. It was his mission to recover this treasure of the trove of silver left by Kidd........and it was known of the location by the Mason's that Kidd entrusted this knowledge to......after he was tried and sentenced to death....the mystery in the novel with the map resembling these triangulated points on the map were clearly similar to the T, as some other Acadia treasures were also known to be buried on the "Treasure Island" we know now as Oak Island from notes scripted in numerous Pouissan works (sp?)

What is any of this based on?

They didn't have a pot to pee in. This is fact. If there was money available, where did it go? It certainly didn't go to them. (Or if it did, it wasn't a significant amount.)

 

[Eldo]

What is any of this based on?

you just said it was desperation??

desperate

Well this is what it was about.

which time are you from......this time?? or are you reborn from the past? I don't care how many people cant count $$$ here......that many soldiers fighting that long would have to be paid a lot of silver......

when do you think the money appeared in paper form to just print whenever they wanted for any war (not till 1850's) .... so that means the amount of silver came from where

Well known that the merchants and craftsman were paid in silver, but men who were farmers were paid in land.

and how do you think any support came from foreign nations that large, and could just make its way through to the US overseas during one of the biggest wars Britain ever fought ?? There was very little support available as compared to what was needed to take out a force that large.

the men who committed their attention to this plan were set into command over the nation in sequence as a reward of honor, but they passed the position off to another during elections, to avoid Imperial dominance for longer of a term than can be controlled by democratic methods to avoid continual civil wars afterwards.

then you will know that some people are meant to recover their goods before a pillager gets them....LOL......and when they have the Grand Lodge above them, the G Unit of measurement, then you know it wasnt england who committed these trove diggings and reburials.

they basically saw the coming invasion, the coming days, and were prepared by taking the cases of silver from the knights templar trove and feeding it to the men that day of recompense.

the treasure is concealed on a ridge that is not visible except from the air as to the height of the trees.......the compass will lead you part of the way, but after that you have to have some serious business being there, cause its pretty rugged land and has numerous passes that are hard to navigate through.

they drag you through a nasty mosquito infested swamp to a place that has no more of a marking than a brand new canvas does and expect you to wander right into this location.....

to me it is amazing that this keystone popped up and is featured online in photos and no one knows what its for.....but this would by no means lead you to the location I have found with the entire cypher

its looking right at the treasure location, and looks like a birds head and a bird's eye view that must be the key to finding it......

there is an encoded star map on the Oak Island Cross, and to relate that to the other clues, you will land right in the location I have pictured........this is no joke.....

nobody carves huge lines in the ground unless they had expected the person to be able to "See" from above or actually come from above and be able to navigate according to the stars, its impossible that some one has come through to the location of the flat island of Oak Island to find a hidden treasure

that is the most well traveled and wandered area of the coast and a logical place for numerous expeditions after to follow.

what I do now historically is that there was a great expedition that was launched by Portugal and Spain and was sent into the atlantic to bury the beloved.......

this is Jesus Christ and his knights templar treasure, and is clearly marked as being with the grail, the menorah, and the ark as well so trust that the prophesies of Nostradamus do come true and we see the end of these artists when the sword is drawn from stone

im tired of the Americants here

View attachment 1033688

 

[Smithbrown]

I think you are confusing bank notes with banking. The latter was developed a very very long time ago so merchants and governmends did not have to move chests of silver about, but draw on a network of colleagues- History of banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It goes back much further than 1850 and was certainly in existance in the time of the Wars of Independence.

 

[Robot]

How the 18th Century Freemasons drew a "Treasure Map"

Eldo - "there is an encoded star map on the Oak Island Cross"

This is correct!

My theory (The (Untold) Story of The Oak Island Money Pit) on page 37 of this forum states who constructed and buried the treasure of Oak Island.

The Oak Island Cross really represents the constellation "Cygnus" (the Swan) and is part of the Freemason's Star Map pointing to where the treasure vault is located on the island.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Eldo - "there is an encoded star map on the Oak Island Cross"

This is correct!

My theory (The (Untold) Story of The Oak Island Money Pit) on page 37 of this forum states who constructed and buried the treasure of Oak Island.

The Oak Island Cross really represents the constellation "Cygnus" (the Swan) and is part of the Freemason's Star Map pointing to where the treasure vault is located on the island.

View attachment 1033884View attachment 1033883

THAT the Oak Island Map, I saw!

 

[Dave Rishar]

you just said it was desperation??

I meant this whole theory. Note the paragraph that I quoted prior to asking this question. You laid down some very specific items as if they were factual. What I'm curious about is what those thoughts are based on.

which time are you from......this time?? or are you reborn from the past? I don't care how many people cant count $$$ here......that many soldiers fighting that long would have to be paid a lot of silver......

Should have been, yes. Were they? No, they were not. Congress never had enough money to do anything that it wanted, not at the beginning and not at the end. This is how it was. I was not there, but this is what the people that were there reported. I'm inclined to take their word for it.

when do you think the money appeared in paper form to just print whenever they wanted for any war (not till 1850's) .... so that means the amount of silver came from where

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Please clarify.

Well known that the merchants and craftsman were paid in silver, but men who were farmers were paid in land.

Merchants and craftsmen were paid in silver when they could be paid, because they would not accept land. Some of the soldiers were not so picky. Others were, and deserted. Desertion was an issue for the Americans during most of the war. And who could blame them?

and how do you think any support came from foreign nations that large, and could just make its way through to the US overseas during one of the biggest wars Britain ever fought ?? There was very little support available as compared to what was needed to take out a force that large.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Please clarify.

the men who committed their attention to this plan were set into command over the nation in sequence as a reward of honor, but they passed the position off to another during elections, to avoid Imperial dominance for longer of a term than can be controlled by democratic methods to avoid continual civil wars afterwards.

I have no idea at all of what that means. Please clarify.

then you will know that some people are meant to recover their goods before a pillager gets them....LOL......and when they have the Grand Lodge above them, the G Unit of measurement, then you know it wasnt england who committed these trove diggings and reburials.

they basically saw the coming invasion, the coming days, and were prepared by taking the cases of silver from the knights templar trove and feeding it to the men that day of recompense.

Whaaaaaaaat?

to me it is amazing that this keystone popped up and is featured online in photos and no one knows what its for.....

It's not amazing to me at all. It appeared exactly when needed to support a given theory that was being shopped around, just like the items that supported a pirate treasure popped up when they were needed. When the next big theory becomes popular, something new will pop up in order to support that. It's a trend that's been closely tied to the Money Pit from the very beginning, and it's stunk the whole time. I can't prove that that stone is a fake, but it has nothing in common with the other marked stones that have supposedly been found. If you ask me, they're all fakes.

its looking right at the treasure location, and looks like a birds head and a bird's eye view that must be the key to finding it......

there is an encoded star map on the Oak Island Cross, and to relate that to the other clues, you will land right in the location I have pictured........this is no joke.....

nobody carves huge lines in the ground unless they had expected the person to be able to "See" from above or actually come from above and be able to navigate according to the stars, its impossible that some one has come through to the location of the flat island of Oak Island to find a hidden treasure

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Please clarify.

im tired of the Americants here

View attachment 1033688[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear that.

I'm also sorry to report that you missed something during your investigations - the Smiley Face. I'll indicate it on the photograph.



And I didn't even have to draw any features onto the topography to do this, unlike in the original picture. They were already there. I merely drew arrows pointing to them.

Do you see how these things can get confusing, and that the human eye can see things where things ought not to be seen? I'm not attempting to mock you here - I want to be very clear about that. I'm merely providing an example of the phenomenon that I just described. If someone really wants to see something somewhere, then they will see it...regardless of whether it's actually there or not. This is a subroutine that's hardwired into the human brain and is not specific to Americants.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Not specific to Americans"...?

 

[Dave Rishar]

Americants. Americans were not being discussed apparently. I'm not quite sure what an Americant is but as the term seems to have been directed at me, I suppose that I'm one of them. Oh, bother.

As for how the human brain works, it's just how the human brain works. The nation of origin doesn't seem to matter much. Humans tend to see patterns (particularly faces) where none exist because that's what we're programmed to do.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Americants. Americans were not being discussed apparently. I'm not quite sure what an Americant is but as the term seems to have been directed at me, I suppose that I'm one of them. Oh, bother.

As for how the human brain works, it's just how the human brain works. The nation of origin doesn't seem to matter much. Humans tend to see patterns (particularly faces) where none exist because that's what we're programmed to do.

Like "seeing" faces/animals/shapes in clouds...?

 

[Dave Rishar]

Like "seeing" faces/animals/shapes in clouds...?

Exactly. Here's some dry reading about the facial recognition thing:

Face perception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The phenomenon of interpreting random or incidental stimuli as being something significant ("making something out of nothing") is known as pareidolia, which better describes seeing animals and shapes. You can read about that here:

Pareidolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These would have been useful survival mechanisms 30,000 years ago. They're less useful today and, like the fight or flight response, can get us into trouble if we're not careful and/or aren't aware of them. We all experience this to a degree, but when evaluating a problem it's important to stop at some point and ask, "Am I perceiving what I believe that I'm perceiving, or is my mind twisting this into something that it isn't?" This is a little-discussed area of skepticism and logical thought - the fact that we, as humans, can make mistakes without even realizing it due to subconscious responses hardwired into our brains.

I won't say that these are responsible for every treasure tale or UFO sighting, but it would hard to argue that they're not responsible for at least some of them. When perceiving something that lacks a pattern, humans tend to invent one. It's just what we do. Many people seem not to know this, but it's the curse of our heritage.

As a practical example, refer back to my earlier MS Paint masterpiece. When I looked at it, I really did see a winking smiley face there. I know that it's my brain doing its thing without my consent, just as I also know that I'm probably not the only one that saw it. That's why I made my little joke - to point out that we're all humans here.