Here Jeffro, just for you.

Miner49er

Jr. Member
May 16, 2007
78
2
Abstract
Biolocation, more commonly known as dowsing, is an ancient technique. That it is a cross-cultural technique is evident from the fact that words exist in most languages for the technique, the rod and the operator.
However, its recent use for the detection of caves from the surface is a controversial practice which has received much discussion. The paper will commence with the history of the technique and continue with a discussion of the possible scientific explanation of the mechanism involved.
The author has researched widely in the geophysical location of caves and hydrological systems. During the last ten years he has become convinced that the traditional dowsing method, when used on site, produces consistent and reproducible results, and that there is a case to be answered.
He is not willing to entertain the possibility of a psychic or extra-sensory explanation, and continues to plan experiments with a view to discovering an explanation of the technique within physical and medical science. Case studies have been carried out in all the caving regions of England and Wales, as well as in France and Spain.
Many of these studies have suggested the existence of cave systems not yet entered, and several have been proved to be correct by later cave diving and exploration. Publication of the results has aroused much controversial discussion; the results stand as hypotheses, however, until disproved. The paper concludes with some results from the Royal Forest of Dean Caving Symposium held in June 1994. The appendix contains master maps of dowsing traces throughout the Forest of Dean carried out before June 1994.
1. On the possible scientific justification of dowsing for the detection of caves
1.1. The history of dowsing
The first recorded use of dowsing is thought to be a cave painting at Tassili nAjjer in the Sahara, dated to approximately 6000 B.C. This seems to show an eager crowd watching a dowsers search for water. Use of the technique is recorded by the Egyptians (c. 3000 B.C.), and after their escape from the Egyptians the Hebrews are thought to have used it (c. 2000 B.C.). The activities of their leader Moses are recorded in the Bible:
Thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink (Exodus 17:5 6)
Take the rod…and speak ye unto the rock…and it shall give forth water (Numbers 20:9 11)
and some readers have taken these references to indicate that Moses was dowsing using his staff. During Roman times the author Cicero (50 B.C.) recorded use of the VIRGVLA DIVINATORIVM, the dowsing rod. Martin Luther denounced dowsing in 1528 A.D. as being the work of the Devil, and dowsers of breaking the First Commandment.
A well-known publication by Georgius Agricola, De re metallica (1556) has illustrations and comments on the common use of the technique by miners for the finding of metallic ores. Kaspar Schott, a Jesuit priest and mathematician, was the first to suggest, in the seventeenth century, that the movement of the dowsing rod was due to unconscious muscular action.
However, despite these well-documented activities for eight millennia, dowsing has remained a folk method, and scientific study of the technique only began in 1890. At first, although there were positive indications of correlations between scientific observations and dowsing results, the designs of the experiments were insufficiently rigorous to convince the sceptical scientific community.
Some so-called studies of dowsing which appeared in the scientific press (e.g. Ellis 1917; Hyman and Vogt 1958; Vogt and Hyman 1959) were more concerned with the reputation of the authors, and carefully ignored all references giving favourable reports of dowsing. Ford (1961) was similarly careful to state that dowsing in 1961 was unproven by any test yet devised, but concluded that a few dowsers may react to electromagnetic influences.
A further wait until 1971 was necessary before the first properly-conducted double-blind study was carried out by a sceptic (Chadwick and Jensen 1971), with control experiments and statistically valid results. The design of rigorous experiments continues, for example the Greensites Project (1990) and The Dowsing Welly Experiment (1993, reported by Wilcock (1994)).
1.2. Scope of the study
This study will be restricted to those dowsing results which could be due to a physical effect on site. Phenomena deliberately ruled out in the study are: the activities of people who claim that it is not even necessary to visit the site, but that maps can be dowsed by a pendulum at home; dowsing for leylines; and medical dowsing (radiesthesia).
1.3. Who uses dowsers?
The long list of users of dowsing may be surprising to some readers:
· Engineering Companies (e.g. the Bio-Physical Method (BPM) was used in 1971 in the former USSR to detect water filtering through a dam (Bird 1979))
· Water Companies (a pair of dowsing rods is carried inside the doors of Water Board vans)
· Mining Companies (e.g. documented use for finding ore and petroleum in the USSR (Bakirov 1973))
· Laundries (for water supply)
· Breweries (for water supply)
· Building Contractors (to locate unknown service pipes on building sites)
· Farmers (for water supply)
· Government Departments
· Police (location of buried items and, it is rumoured, bodies)
· Armed Forces (dowsing used by the British Army since Colonial times); dowsing appeared in USSR army manuals in 1930 for the finding of water in remote areas; dowsing used by the First and Third US Marine Divisions in Vietnam, 1967, as a simple, low-cost method for locating Vietcong tunnels, which were used for communication, storage depots, supply network, command posts, training centres, hospitals and sally ports for over twenty years (Bossart 1968 in the Project Poorboy Annual Progress Report; Bird 1979, Chapter 11)).
A large number of general descriptions of dowsing methods have been published in books designed for popular reading (e.g. Graves 1976; 1986; Bird 1979; Naylor 1980).
1.4. What is detected?
Location of the following features by dowsers is well-documented (Tromp 1949 and many other studies):
· Flowing water
· Springs, and lines of springs
· Wells
· Circulating groundwater
· Service pipes and trenches (not just water pipes, but electricity cables and gas pipes, so the trench may be what is being detected)
· Buried foundations
· Roots of big trees
· Geological faults, some of which will have ore deposits
· Caves with flowing water
· Large dry caves
It is undeniable that dowsing has been profitably used for the detection of new wells for water supply (e.g. Mullins et al. 1894).
1.5. Possible physical fields
It has been suggested that dowsers are detecting a physical field on site. If this is true then what could it be? The following types of fields have been suggested as possible candidates:
· Gravitational
· Magnetic
· Electric
· Electromagnetic
· Radioactive
· Seismic (the stress field around fractures, fissures and faults)
· Geothermal
· Geochemical
Of these, the magnetic, electric and electromagnetic fields are probably the most likely candidates. However, for this to be accepted, a physical explanation must be provided for the generation of the signals by the features, and for the detection mechanism within the human body.
1.6. What do dowsers experience?
Dowsers claim that they experience a variety of phenomena, such as tingling like an electric shock , a chilly sensation, shivering, trembling, or an unpleasant sensation in the stomach.
In attempts to determine the source of this apparent shock to the central nervous system, instruments have been attached to subjects to measure muscular contractions, changes in heart potential and changes in electrical skin potential. Involuntary muscular contractions have been observed, and convulsive spasms, sometimes violent. Electrocardiogram responses have been seen which exhibit a 20mV step change when the dowsing rods are observed to move (Tromp 1949), and changes in skin potential have also been measured.
In experiments when artificial fields have been produced, a delay of between 5s and 10s is observed between production of a field change and the electrocardiogram response. This suggests processing via the brain and central nervous system, rather than direct nerve stimulation. Furthermore, the rods are observed to move after the field change.
1.7. Why do the rods move?
The movement of the dowsing rods is clearly initiated by muscular action. This is observed to be sometimes violent enough to peel bark from a Y-stick, and to scratch hands painfully. Novice dowsers who were former sceptics were unaware of this involuntary muscular action, and claimed they were trying to stop the rods moving.
The material of the rods does not matter, since they are just acting as a mechanical amplifier of small muscle movements.
Some experiments have indicated that blindfolding stops a dowsing reaction: sceptics have said this indicates that sight was being used to supply alternative information, such as depressions in the ground, geological features, etc., but an alternative explanation could be that the array of cells at the back of the eye is a detector for more than just light, or the optic nerve may be part of the feedback loop to the central nervous system.
Parameter changes measured by electrocardiogram or skin potentiometer occur before the rods move, showing that it is not the movement of the rods that initiates the effect.
Some dowsers claim that the faster they walk, the stronger is the dowsing reaction, which might suggest that some form of electromagnetic induction is in operation.
It has been suggested that a magnetic field detecting sixth sense would have been lost through misuse during evolution. However, genetic changes take much longer than a few thousand years to take effect.
We still have the fight or flight syndrome which causes our hearts to pound when we perceive ourselves to be threatened, even though in modern life we are not going to punch our opponent or to run away, and the net result of this is the modern curse of heart attacks. Also our spinal columns have not really adapted to the change from quadripedal to bipedal gait, resulting in the modern defects of bad backs and slipped discs.
1.8. Sensitivity
Washing hands in hot water appears to cause dowsing sensitivity to increase, even for those who claim not to be able to dowse. The following measurements of electrical resistance between left and right palms may indicate a correlation between electrical resistance of the human body and dowsing ability. The two columns in the table below are for dowsing-sensitive persons and non-sensitive persons (Tromp 1949):
Degree of wetness of palms
Degree of wetness of palms Sensitive Persons, Non-sensitive Persons, Wet hands 10 50 Quickly-dried hands 22 250 Towelled hands 38 400 Hot air-dried hands 50 500 (3000?)
Table 1. Electrical resistance left to right palms
Thus sensitive persons have lower resistances at all times than non-sensitive persons, by a factor of about ten, but it is just possible that non-sensitive persons with wet hands may approach operating conditions of sensitive persons, and under these conditions may be able to dowse.
1.9. Published studies
Experimenters have found that it is difficult to design experiments which have controls, are double blind, and have statistical significance. By double blind is meant that the experimenters must themselves not know the correct answer, so that there is no possibility of passing on information unconsciously to the operators. Preferably the experimenters should be sceptics, so that positive results will carry more weight.
In 1933 De Vita placed electroscopes over underground streams, and found that they discharged more rapidly than control electroscopes placed over normal ground of the same soil type and rock type. Jemma confirmed de Vita’s results in the following year, and also found that dowsers are affected by the ionisation of the air. This so called fine-weather field is affected by the altitude and position of the sun, and is to do with atmospheric electricity. There are also indications that dowsers are affected by electrical storms.
Maby and Franklin ,both physicists (1939), found that dowsers reacted to electromagnetic waves. The frequency may well be important, however, since I have conducted a series of experiments under overhead electricity pylons, and have found no reaction for a 50Hz electromagnetic field, and I have also visited transmitters and found no reaction for radio and radar transmissions at higher frequencies.
Tromp (1949) proposed a possible mechanism where the human body passing at speed through a field will increase in capacity as it approaches the conductor (stream of water), and skin potential will decrease.
If this is the mechanism, it will be affected by the initial skin resistance, the relative conductivities of the soil and the underground stream, the speed of movement and the conductivity of the atmosphere. Tromp pointed out that carrier pigeons became disoriented near radio and radar transmitters, and in the high potential gradients caused by whirling snow.
He also discussed a number of animals which appear to have navigational ability, such as carrier pigeons, salmon, eels, dolphins, whales and bees (see also Kirschvink (1981)). Other interesting matters pointed out by Tromp are that magnetite is found in the beak and wing feathers of carrier pigeons, and Papuan humans can often navigate in dense jungle.
In 1952 a team of electrical engineers tested the famous dowser Henry Gross, and found that his skin potential changed by up to 200mV over subterranean water, compared with a change of 10mV for non-dowsers.
Rocard, a French physicist (1964) reported that dowsers react to changes in the earth’’s magnetic field caused by underground water, and claimed that electric currents of 50mA/m2 in water and magnetic field gradients of 1mG/m were detectable by dowsers. He also claimed to have found that a high skin conductivity is desirable for good dowsing results.
Barrett and Besterman (1968) carried out field studies for finding water, using a number of independent experiments with two or more dowsers, and compared the results with those suggested by consultant engineers and geologists.
They found the dowsers got twice as much water as the engineers, while the geologists got hardly any . They concluded that the movement of the dowsing rods is due to unconscious muscular action, the tension of the grip being converted to sudden neuro-muscular spasms when the operator is in the presence of water.
Harvalik (1970), a physicist, found that the dowser reacts to changing magnetic fields produced by electric ground currents with frequency in the range 1 500Hz, but not to static magnetic fields. Using magnetometers he deduced that the dowser reacts to as little as 10-9G change.
There was some indication that dowsing ability was enhanced by drinking water, perhaps indicating that conductivity in the region of the kidneys is important. It is impossible to exclude the earth’’s magnetic field from the brain or any other part of the body, and there is therefore no reason why the development of a field-detecting ability should be ruled out.
Harvalik conducted elaborate experiments with metal shielding of the human body, and a torch-like instrument to concentrate and direct an artificial magnetic field in an attempt to locate the positions of possible sensors.
When the operator was carried horizontally on a stretcher, the reaction occurred when the solar plexus was over the feature. When the metal shield was between the navel and the breast bone the signal was not detected, indicating a detector site slightly below the solar plexus, perhaps the adrenal gland in the kidney region (which contains magnetite, as reported by Kirschvink (1981)).
Shielding of the head indicated a second possible detector site at the base of the brain, perhaps the pineal gland. It has also been found that human bones from the region of the sphenoid/ethmoid sinus complex contain magnetite, and it is suggested that these deposits are concerned with magnetic field detection; the sinus complex approximating to the region previously deduced from orientation experiments to be the site of a magnetoreceptor (Baker 1981; Baker et al. 1983).
Other points mentioned by Harvalik are that two detectors will be necessary to detect a field gradient, and the detection mechanism could be based on nuclear magnetic resonance (calculations indicate that the earth’s magnetic field would give rise to precession at about 2000Hz, and a field gradient of 1mG/m would give a beat frequency of about 1Hz which could be detectable). A good summary of Harvalik’s work is also given by Bird (1979).
The work of Chadwick and Jensen (1971) appears to be the first documented experiment carried out under double blind conditions which was relevant to the dowsing problem. Chadwick, the experimenter, was a sceptic, and did not know the correct answers. 150 subjects were tested, mostly novice dowsers.
A path was chosen leading through a park, with no known features. Subjects were asked to place small wooden blocks where they felt they were getting a reaction or field . The positions of the blocks were noted after each run, and removed before the next run. When all the subjects had been tested, a conventional magnetometer survey was carried out along the path.
The correlations between the subjects and the magnetometry were found to be statistically significant at the .05 level. There was therefore some evidence of correlation between magnetic gradient changes and dowsing reactions. The conclusions were that there are sufficient statistically significant results to warrant further investigations.
Williamson (1979) reported on the use of the biophysical method (BPM) in Russia. Of wells suggested by BPM operators, only 8% were dry, while of those suggested by geophysical methods 13% were dry.
Randi (1979) conducted a test with four dowsers in Italy, using three buried pipes with running water. As stated by Chamberlin (1980) the test had several deficiencies. No meaningful statistical evaluation was possible, and the test contributed little knowledge to the scientific community.
Presti and Pettigrew (1980) reported the occurrence of magnetic material in the neck muscles of homing pigeons, and have suggested that this is coupled to muscle receptors to form an effective magnetic detector.
Hansen (1982) gives an especially good summary of experimental research into the techniques of dowsing.
Killip (1984) reviewed the possibilities for detecting geophysical anomalies at building sites by dowsing. He carried out a systematic survey using rectangular traverse lines, and claimed that a standardised technique can locate many types of buried features on a proposed construction site, including brick culverts with underground streams, service pipes and pipe trenches, and buried foundations.
Killip was careful to say that there should be further corroboration by excavation, boring, seismic, resistivity, magnetometric and gravimetric instruments, but pointed out that many of the features could not be detected by these methods within a reasonable budget.
Since dowsing is cheap, he therefore states that the lack of a scientific explanation should not be held as justification for non-use, since reliable and consistent readings can be obtained by methodical working. A similarly successful detection of old church foundations has been demonstrated by Bailey et al. (1988).
Baig (1985) reported dowsing undertaken in India. The water vein detected by dowsing was then surveyed by earth resistivity meter, when water-bearing strata were detected. It was deduced that the dowsing method could produce water-bearing rocks more quickly than could conventional methods.
Mogila (1986) reported a field study at the Monastery of the Caves, Kiev, where conventional sub-surface radar had failed to locate secret passageways. Of 130 sites indicated by dowsers, 73 (56%) corresponded with existing passages, previously known to the curators but not to the dowsers. At a further 29 dowsed sites (22%), previously unknown to the curators, test drillings revealed cavities. This gave a total success rate of 78%.
Williamson (1987) suggests magnetic anomalies as the basis of dowsing. This may be given greater credence by the work of Hess et al. (1987), who have shown that magnetic stimulation of the human brain from coils placed over the human scalp causes twitches of the hand muscles, which can be greatly enhanced by concurrent voluntary contraction.
The Greensites Project (France 1990; Herbert 1990) has aimed to compare the results of various methods for detecting caves from the surface, including geophysical, botanical and dowsing techniques.
Electromagnetic traversing (resistivity, magnetometry) gave the best results at unknown cave locations, but there is good correlation for several dowsers. An experiment over Pant Mawr involved several independent dowsers, and was carried out using a pegged-out grid over passages which had been accurately radiolocated. Nobody who dowsed the grid was present on the day the surveying was done.
The dowsers participated on different days and did not exchange information between themselves, nor were they given any indication of the other results obtained. There was some correlation between dowsers, and with the known cave position, and one dowser produced a plan which appeared to be an enlargement of a small part of the cave, at the correct angle (France 1991a). The conclusion on this was the jury is still out (France 1991b).
Vilchko (1993) reported his experiments with migratory birds in the BBC4 Science Now programme on 24.8.93. Magnetite is found in birds near the brain, in the flight feathers and in the beak. His experimental birds when released flew out of the cage in the migratory direction.
He has also found that birds use white, green or blue light to magnetise the retina of the eye, while red light disorientates them. This magnetic orientation therefore uses magnetite, the retina of the eye and light, and a similar mechanism could clearly also apply to humans.
Wilcock (1994) has reported the results of The Dowsing Welly Experiment held to detect any correlation between earthing of the dowser and lack of dowsing reaction. While the experiment suffered from some technical design problems, it was concluded that there was no connection between earthing and lack of dowsing reaction.
1.10. Case studies of feature location by dowsing
Wade (1961) was one of the earliest cavers to use dowsing for speleological purposes. He attempted cave location on Greenhow Hill, assisting diggers in the search for an entry to Mongo Gill Caverns, and found Strans Gill Pot in Wharfedale. He also undertook experiments at Black Keld (in an attempt to detect the Mossdale Caverns to Black Keld route from the Black Keld end), at Gill House Pot, on Fountains Fell and in Chapel-le-Dale.
Bossart (1968) has reported the regular use of dowsing by U.S. troops to detect Vietcong tunnels in Vietnam in 1967. A detailed plan and section of the tunnels used for the experiments is given by Bird (1979, Chapter 11).
Ogil’vy carried out a search for a lost underground drainage system at the Ostankinsky Palace in Moscow, and dowsing predictions for its location were proved accurate by digging (Bird 1979, 240). Pluzhnikov undertook a search for medieval escape tunnels between the citadel and two monasteries in Serpukhov (Bird 1979, 242 244). The tunnels were located by dowsing in less than eight hours, and proved to be 2m wide, several km in length, and to pass under the River Nara in two places.
Dore used dowsing to locate Scott Hollow Cave in southern West Virginia (Anderson, Internet personal communication 1993). The dowsing was used to determine where to begin digging with a backhoe (mechanical excavator), and entry was gained to about 20km of passages.
DiBlasi (Internet personal communication 1993) has reported an experiment in 1987 to locate buried foundations in which geophysical surveys were compared with dowsing results. The first instrument used was a Martin-Clark resistivity meter; and 20 person hours was needed for gridding and inserting probe arrays, plus 1.5 person hours for entering the data into a surface modelling program on a computer.
Next an EM-38 conductivity meter was used; taking 12 person hours for survey and 1.5 person hours to enter data; this instrument is just placed on the ground, and the results were nearly identical to those of the resistivity meter. Finally two independent dowsers who had not seen the previous geophysical results took half an hour to outline the foundations with flags (total 1 person hour) and to obtain identical results.
Dowsing also located a pit which the other two methods did not locate. The site was excavated and the results of all three methods were confirmed, but obviously dowsing was much more cost-effective. In a further experiment with a proton gradiometer, dowsing proved considerably more accurate than the gradiometer in locating buried structures (this is not surprising, as the proton gradiometer does not excel at finding wall and road foundations). Dowsing has also been used with great accuracy to locate graves of many periods, the results being proved by excavation.
 

Jeez, after all that proof it's REALLY REALLY surprising dowsing isn't accepted science, eh?


Wonder why that is?
 

Here is what Georgius Agricola says about dowsing in De Re Metallica:

There are many great contentions between miners concerning the forked twig, for some say that it is of the greatest use in discovering veins, and others deny it. Some of those who manipulate and use the twig, first cut a fork from a Hazel Bush with a knife, for this bush they consider more efficatious than any other for revealing the veins, especially if the hazel bush grows above a vein. Others use a different kind of twig for each metal, when they are seeking to discover the veins, for they employ hazel twigs for veins of silver; ash twigs for copper; pitch pine for lead, and especially tin; and rods of iron and steel for gold. All alike grasp the forks of the twig with their hands, clenching their fists, it being necessary that the clenched fingers should be held toward the sky in order that the twig should be raised at that end where the two branches meet. Then they wander hither and thither at random through mountainous regions. It is said that the moment they place their feet on a vein the twig immediately turns and twists, and so by its' action discloses a vein; when they move their feet again and go away from that spot the twig becomes once more immobile.

The truth is, they assert, the movement of the twig is caused by the power of the veins, and sometimes it is so great that the branches of trees growing near a vein are deflected toward it. On the other hand, those who say that the twig is of no use to good and serious men, also deny that the motion is due to the power of the veins, because the twigs will not move for everybody, but only for those who employ incantations and craft. Moreover, they deny the power of a vein to draw to itself the branches of trees, but they say that the warm and dry exhalations cause these contortions.

There is much more, but Agricola is basically giving both sides of the argument. He favors neither (if I had to guess, I would bet he does not believe in the power of the twig).

Best-Mike
 

For me there is nothing spiritual about it. All elements have their own atomic frequency, which is allways on. Automatically creating an invisible connection line from biggest objects to smallest. To locate a specific Element you only need to use some of the Element to create your Dowsible Invisible line. If I was holding a willow stick, without using any Element to signal with, it would be impossible to know what I'm Dowsing. L=rod Dowsing, Dowser.
 

dowser said:
For me there is nothing spiritual about it. All elements have their own atomic frequency, which is allways on. Automatically creating an invisible connection line from biggest objects to smallest. To locate a specific Element you only need to use some of the Element to create your Dowsible Invisible line. If I was holding a willow stick, without using any Element to signal with, it would be impossible to know what I'm Dowsing. L=rod Dowsing, Dowser.

And other dowsers have other methods that don't employ the element specifically. using the twig to locate water, for instance. Or gold, or silver. Or whatever. It seems there are several schools of thought on this.

Georg Bauer (Agricola) first started describing minerology in 1527 at a place called Joachimsthal where he was observing all different aspects of mining which he descibes in great detail in De Re Metallica

I'm pretty sure dowsing is also described in the Bible, but aside from that this is the earliest record I know about the argument. Seems its been going on for at least 450 years or so.....probably even longer than that.

What're the chances theres gonna be a concensus in our lifetimes?

I won't discount it outright, but I choose to employ more predictable methods myself.
 

I Dowse near location, and a large Object\Treasure can signal many miles. When I follow a Gold signal I am allways led to Gold molecules, and the same goes for any Element. The things I can't predict are the depth from a distance, and the density when standing over the target. And even though I can't predict them, I believe I've located $20 million worth of Treasure, in just the last year. That's 3 lost treasures, one huge one, about 10 Gold ore veins, and 24 Meteorites. Now I've only gotten good at what I can do in the last year, and it took 4 to get here. I will post pictures in the future. I believe in all other aspects of Dowsing, even though I can't do them myself. But every time Dowsers are talked about we are all labled as freaks. It isn't Rocket Science in what I do, and I don't know why it hasn't been tested, but give me time and I will prove my side. Dowser
 

What I enjoy is how much dowsers contradict others and themselves.

Some dowsers are of a mind that it doesn't matter what your rods are made of, others say only specific materials will do.

Some dowsers swear you have to have a sample piece of material physically with you when you're dowsing, others say you only have to think of that material, and still others say that a piece of paper with that material written on it will suffice.

Some say that you can only dowse effectively certain times of the year, others say it doesn't matter at all.

Some dowsers claim that anyone at all can dowse, others say you have to believe dowsing will work, still others say that only certain people can dowse with any success based on various traits.

The only thing you guys can agree on is that skeptics are all wrong, no matter what we say.

And you wonder why we doubt your so-called "skills?"
 

dowser said:
I Dowse near location, and a large Object\Treasure can signal many miles. When I follow a Gold signal I am allways led to Gold molecules, and the same goes for any Element. The things I can't predict are the depth from a distance, and the density when standing over the target. And even though I can't predict them, I believe I've located $20 million worth of Treasure, in just the last year. That's 3 lost treasures, one huge one, about 10 Gold ore veins, and 24 Meteorites. Now I've only gotten good at what I can do in the last year, and it took 4 to get here. I will post pictures in the future. I believe in all other aspects of Dowsing, even though I can't do them myself. But every time Dowsers are talked about we are all labled as freaks. It isn't Rocket Science in what I do, and I don't know why it hasn't been tested, but give me time and I will prove my side. Dowser
Dowsing has been tested, and found lacking, and there are awards out there for the taking if you can prove you can dowse in a controlled environment. You don't need time, just the ability to accept failure if that's the result.
 

I've been trying to prove to myself that it doesn't work ever since I learned how. And if we all want convincing you have to help. Give me directions to your favorite lost treasure location. One that you are sure is there. Let me know what type of treasure it is, and get me within 2 miles, if large treasure 5 miles. And if you pay my way, room and board, and I get a percentage I'll take you to your treasure.
 

Dowser, you say of treasure locations: "get me within 2 miles" Well gee, if you're even semi-accurate within that parameters, why do you need "leads"? Just walk around around and point your thingy at ANY ghost town, or old-town neighborhood, and it WILL find caches, right?
 

I've checked every place close to me, and just random driving and checking is taking up a lot of time and gas. I can cover quite a few acres in a day, but a lost treasure has to be there, to be found.
 

dowser said:
I've been trying to prove to myself that it doesn't work ever since I learned how. And if we all want convincing you have to help. Give me directions to your favorite lost treasure location. One that you are sure is there. Let me know what type of treasure it is, and get me within 2 miles, if large treasure 5 miles. And if you pay my way, room and board, and I get a percentage I'll take you to your treasure.
Also, why do you think we would know of a buried treasure and not dig it up? I mean, come on! We're not all dowsers here! ::)
 

Ok, we'll just use one of my locations, i'll give you GPS coordinates to what I believe is a 10in. Meteorite 5 ft. down that I Dowsed, without any type of machine, or mechanical device. You go to the spot and detect it, and see if you hear anything. Then dig down 5 ft. and see if Dowsing does work. But I want results posted, and 50% of value. Anyone game?
 

Dowser, let me get this straight: You can tell, just by dowsing that there is a " 10" meteorite at 5 ft. down "? What are you using? a bent copper wire? Do you know in an exact spot? How big of an area are we talking about? Many acres, or within a few foot, or the exact "x-marks the spot", or what? If you know it's there, why don't you just go dig it up?

Assuming all is as you say, and you just wandered around with your dowser, and it told you those exact specifics, I'd be dubious that it's there, as I don't think dowsing can do that. And if something were there, I'd be looking real hard for evidence of it being planted (sorry, friends are friends but we have to "cut the cards").
 

Hey Tom, yes X marks the spot, and it's 5ft. down in hard packed clay, and coliche, ocean sediments. You go dig it, if you want to believe. If not, than don't. See if I care.
 

Ok, we'll just use one of my locations, i'll give you GPS coordinates to what I believe is a 10in. Meteorite 5 ft. down that I Dowsed, without any type of machine, or mechanical device. You go to the spot and detect it, and see if you hear anything. Then dig down 5 ft. and see if Dowsing does work. But I want results posted, and 50% of value. Anyone game?

Hey Dowser......They will make excuses why they can't dig it..They will probaly want you to pay them to dig it. They do not understand that to dig some of our finds is just " to much like work " and is not any fun...Art
 

Just a friendly reminder to all...

Disagree if you like, but don't be disagreeable. Insults, outright or implied, wild or mild, will NOT be tolerated.

If you can't keep it courteous, keep it to yourself— or put it in a PM to the person with whom you disagree.
 

I'll sweeten the pot some more. That Meteorite is only one, in mile long strewn field of 5. I will take you to all 5 the locations, so no GPS needed. And I will supply you with the hand tools. For that I get 50% of the one dug. Which is a $80.ooo.oo rock. You keep the rest.
 

Holy smoke, an "$80.ooo.oo rock"? Why don't you just dig it out yourself? I don't get it? Or do you get these thing "all the time", and just save some to challenge skeptics?

I know it sounds like I/we make excuses as to why it's fruitless to fly over and see. I can see how Jerry's comments would sound like an excuse, but think of it: If I were to challenge any of you: "Come fly into Salinas, CA, and I'll have 3 or 4 silver dollars hidden in a 2 mile-square field. You show me that you can find them with your dowser, and I'll be a firm believer!" You know for a fact that none of you would bother, right?

And if I'm wrong, and someone would take the challenge, I'll bite. But rules would have to be "no excuses" Ie.: if you can't find them, you can't write it off to sun-spots, eclipses, etc.....
 

Why would I dig a Meteorite 5 ft. deep? It's easier to find a different one. It wouldn't be very profitable, driving from state to state, digging up everybody's Silver coins, but if you made them Gold I might consider it.
 

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