✅ SOLVED Help with mid 1800s farm house Pendant or Pin

[deadbird.81]

Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I found this Sunday at a mid to late 1800s farm house. My buddy also found one but it was bent in half. Theres a clean spot in it where I rubber it with a cloth and soap. That spot looks to be silver or maybe pewter. There is a crook and key crossed over a bundle of hay theres also a sickle. Any help would be appreciated.
Before cleaning

After cleaning

 

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[Breezie]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I just thought I would report in and say I am researching the idea of ...

Casket/Coffin Plaque/Plate

The symbols tie in. As do the size and shape.

The only problem is 90% of what I'm seeing has someone's name on it.

The search continues.

SBB

Bob, Yes many of the ones shown on the Internet have been engraved, but most were originally were plain without engraving to be engraved at the time of death. Some had places for photographs. Below is page showing some ( I would call 'generic' plates) embossed with figures.

http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,2358313.html#

As far as it being a medal is concerned, I'm wondering how that would be possible since it has 4 holes for attachment? I bar on the back is throwing me. I'd like to know how far it sticks outward.

My second thought on this plate: It could have been on a piece of furniture in a church, say a Communion table with the wheat representing the bread, the hook representing Jesus, the Shepard, and the key being the key of life.

Breezie

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

[ Moving item forward. I hate scrolling back all the time. ]

Breezie ~

Thanks for the link. I have wondered about that also. I have also been wondering about those so called four holes/slots, and whether they are a part of the scallop design itself or for mounting with nails? (I'm leaning towards "nail slots.") Perhaps the best way to determine this is for deadbird.81 to examine the item super close and, if possible, determine if the back did or did not have a pin?

SBB

 

[deadbird.81]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

The bar on the left is 5/8 long. It is attached by soldering or some other method. The stuff on the right appears to be another piece of the bar but bent and covered with whatever was used to attach it. There are no actual holes in the item it is solid.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

DB81 ~

Thanks. That helps a lot!

SBB

 

[mojjax]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Here's one of those Husbandry ribbons I pulled out of one of my junk drawers . Front & back -

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Mojjax ~

Thanks. That helps a lot, too.

Q: What does the top of your's measure in length?

Personally, I am currently steering my searches away from "Badge/Ribbon" or items along those specific lines. I realize it had a pin/attachment on the back of it at some point, but it's the 2 5/8" inches in length that's confusing me. That seems "really big" for most of the ribbon/badges I have been looking at. I'm not sure at this point what I'm looking for, only that I am looking in earnest.

SBB

 

[High Plains Digger]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

For my two cents, Cy's earlier photo appears to be too similar to ingnore. If the subject had a date on it, I would say it was a convention date plaque that may extend for some length with other date bars. I have seen similar things at coin conventions where it was somewhat prideful of having a long line of attendence dates. Without a date, it appears to be some kind of similar thing because of the 4 holes, 2 top and 2 bottom, where it could be attached to the ribbon or other bars. I don't think this is new information, just putting several other observations into one spot. Perhaps it was colored and the color meant something, but obviously not enameled, as some of that would have survived. Interesting.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

~ Food For Thought ~

Having spent several hours and untold searches on this, three key questions keep popping up in my mind ...

1. Is it truly related to "Grange" - Patrons of Husbandry" ?

Current evaluation: Yes, it seems highly likely to be related to one of the above. However, most of the "Grange/H.P." items I've been seeing all have a plow - harvest rake - shaking hands - and an exact or abbreviated spelling on them. There may be exceptions to this, but they are rare. Thus leading me to suspect that the two may not be related. But instead may be related to another fraternal order we have not thought of yet.

2. Is it part of a ribbon/badge, etc?

Current evaluation: Yes, it seems highly possible. Especially because of the evidence of a pin on the back. However, items such as "Brooches" were also designed in this manner. And brooches don't always, or rarely, have something attached to them.

3. Are the so called "slots/holes" what they seem, or are they something else?

Current evaluation: It seems unlikely the item would have both a back pin and nail holes, but I suppose it's possible.

Conclusion: Not entirely sure just yet. But leaning toward "Brooch of some fraternal order other than Patrons of Husbandry." It's the missing "plow" more than anything else that makes me think this. Plus, the back side of Mojjax's ribbon (with an almost identical image) suggest "Death / Memoriam."

Sometimes it helps to summarize things. I hope it did in this case.

Good hunting. And I will continue to do the same.

Sherlock Bob ... Lol

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

~ Points To Ponder ~

Items rotated/cropped.

1. Item in question
2. Mojjax's Ribbon

(Memoriam image or fraternal image?)

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

In case you're wondering if I'm obsessed with this, the answer is "yes." When I feel that I/we are hot on the trail of something, it gets me going like a bloodhound. Plus, I have the time.

I doubt anyone will deny that the image on the item itself and mojjax's ribbon are almost identical. Which brings up a new question involving my current search mode ...

Question: Are the two almost identical images more likely related to something involving "Memoriam" or more likely to something related to a "Fraternal Organization" such as the Grange or Patrons of Husbandry? Or both?

And while I'm here, I thought I'd share the picture below, which I consider to be a good example of a mid-section-piece that we have all been wondering and talking about. But I doubt it has a pin on the back side. (It is Fireman related, and intended as an example only).

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I should have cut to the chase earlier and just declared this then. But since I like presentimg evidence first and then lead up to what I call ...

~ My Personal "Guess" ~

(This goes back full-circle to texastee2007's initial post).

My "guess" is that the item is ...

A GENERIC MEMORIAM BROOCH - NOT RELATED TO ANY SPEFIC ORGANIZATION

Signed ... SODABOTTLEBOB

July 14, 2011



Partly based because of some of the symbols shown on this link:

http://www.graveaddiction.com/symbol.html

 

[deadbird.81]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I guess it has something to do with the grange but exactally what I don't know. Any more info would be appreciated. Thanks Soda for all your work

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

~ Points To Ponder ~

Items rotated/cropped.

1. Item in question
2. Mojjax's Ribbon

(Memoriam image or fraternal image?)

Bob: Those two images are almost identical.

Mojjax: thanks for posting your ribbon. Could we see a close up of the backside? Its cut off your last pic.

 

[mojjax]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

It's 2 3/8'' wide & 1'' tall (in the center)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Thanks Mojjax. That image fits with the soldered bar on the back of deadbirds item.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

DB81 ~

Just for the record I would like to clarify what I mean by ...

"NOT RELATED TO ANY SPEFIC ORGANIZATION"

That it is generic and could have been used by any number of different organizations, including P.H. - Grange - Odd Fellows - etc. But not to any one of them specifically. My reason for believing this is because there appears to be no specific marks on it such as the "Handshake" - "Plow" - "Chain Links" - etc - which appear on the majority of so many other items.

In other words, I think the symbols are more "Death" related than "Organization" related.

Thanks. I feel better now.

Most interesting topic.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Note: Not trying to force my views. But rather to keep open all avenues of research.

(Reiterating texastee2007's initial post with pictures)

(Remember- I'm the obsessed one with nothing better to do. Lol

1. Crook: Shepherds crooks, usually found on graves of Independent Order of Odd
Fellows members (a fraternal organization). Symbolizes the opening of earth to the
heavens.

2. Key: The key of David or Solomon. Keys stand for spiritual knowledge or, if held in
the hands of an angel or saint, the means to enter heaven. (No picture).

3. Sickle: Reaping of life.

4. Wheat: A sheaf of wheat represents harvest, usually found on older peoples'
gravestones.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

deadbird.81

I apologize for bombarding this thread, but I seem to have grabbed a tiger by the tail. Plus, I finally realized where my research is alluring me to. Which is, that despite what the item is, I seem to be drawn forward into the who - what - where - when - and why the Grange organizations of America used such weird symbols? I have only skimmed the surface of these questions, and I seem compelled to follow them. Just call me curious. So if you don't mind, over the next few days I'd like to do a mini history on this. I will do all the research myself, and maybe the end result will be something everyone will enjoy and possibly even help make some sense of all of this. I'll try my best to come up with some cool pictures and dates. Plus keep it simple and basic.

Sample Question # 1 ... Why were the Granges so preoccupied with death symbols?

I will assume it's okay for the moment, and start with this ... (More later).

Thanks.

I'll be back.

SBB

~ History ~

Seven men co-founded the Grange: Oliver Hudson Kelley, William Saunders, Francis M. McDowell, John Trimble, Aaron B. Grosh, John R. Thompson, and William M. Ireland.

President Andrew Johnson sent Oliver Hudson Kelley to the South to collect agricultural data. As a Northerner, Kelley met with suspicion. However, he was a Freemason, an affiliation that overcame sectional differences. Kelley saw the need for an organization that would bring farmers together and advance their interests. After consultations with the other founders, the Grange was born in 1867. The first Grange was Potomac Grange #1 in Washington, D.C., still existant as of 2011.

[ Grange Poster - 1873 ]

Are those Angles in the clouds?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

TT ~

I agree. Like the grave emblem shown below for the "Patrons of Husbandry." Note it has a rake and what appears to be a pitchfork. It is dated 1908.

Most likely DB81's item is related in some manner to a Grange. But which spefic one is another question? What confuses me in my research is why the symbols on the item are minus the plow, rake, and handshake?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

In pictures like the one here you just gotta wonder about all of the symbolism. No disrespect to Granges or women, but it almost gives me the impression of a coven for witchcraft.