Help requested (Spain)

[ivan salis]

if one finds a shipwreck in "state" owned territory waters in America -- or another countries "territory waters" then of course they will need the proper papers and permits or they run the risk of being called "looters" and risk arrest and loss of the wreck site as well as the boat used to find it and any equiptment as well as jail time..one must do t properly or there can be hell to pay ...sadly many govt types make it hard if not impossible to do it "properly" if your a private for profiet person or group..

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

..... and risk arrest and loss of the wreck site .....

Uhhh, sure.... by those persons who stand around, underwater at the bottom of the sea at those sites, waiting to see if anyone disturbs them. Right ?

 

[ivan salis]

remember to be of ANY value a paper MUST BE crafted by a PHD -- PILED HIGH and DEEP ...PERSON

I PERSONALLY SHOWED A phduh (SCHAFER) WHERE HE MADE A ERROR IN HIS SPEECH in regards to the fact that there was only 1 rail line by CAMP MILTON .. IN FACT VHERE WAS 2 LINES --- A MAP IN HIS BOOK --THUNDER ON THE RIVER --(THE CIVIL WAR IN NORTHEAST FLORIDA) - (PAGE 196) SHOWS THE ONE LINE AT THE WEST SIDE OF CAMP MILTON THAT RUNS ALONG BEAVER STEET (US 90) THAT RAN FROM THE JACKSONVILLE DOCKS THRU BALDWIN AND TOWARDS LAKE CITY (AKA AS ALLIGATOR) AND THE SECOND LINE WAS INSTALLED AT THE EAST END OF CAMP MILTON FROM BALDWIN USING RAILS RIPPED UP FROM BETWEEN CALLAHAN AND YULEE RIGHT AFTER CAMP MILTON WAS MADE IN 1864 --TODAY THIS PAVED OVER BIT OF TRACKS IS KNOWN AS THE "RAILS TO TRAILS" BIKE PATH ...SCHAFER REFUSED TO CORRECT HIS "CANNED SPEECH" THAT HES BEEN SPEWING FOR YEARS EVEN AFTER I SHOWED HIM THE MAPS THAT PROVED HE WAS IN FACT WRONG..PLANK ROAD SPLITS HE TWO LINES ONE IS EAST IT AND THE OTHER LINE IS WEST OF IT ALONG BEAVER STREET --IT IS AS PLAIN AS DAY TO ANYONE WHO CARES TO CHECK IT..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

remember to be of ANY value a paper MUST BE crafted by a PHD -- PILED HIGH and DEEP ...PERSON

Nah, that's been debunked. "Papers" crafted by "non-PHD's" can be "peer reviewed" and termed as "articles". Remember ?

Those underwater watch-dogs (who lurk behind strands of swaying seawead to catch persons who disturb unknown undiscovered riches) are more than willing to help you write those articles, after all.

 

[ivan salis]

TOM TO BE A "PEER"ONE MUST BE A FELLOW PHDuh ...a trail of your peers means "your equals" .. any paper done by a non phd will be given very little to no credit by PHD's that had to go to college for many years and spend lots of money --to be able to claim that they "know" what their talking about ..and you dare to claim you "know" something without any "title" besides your name ...how dare you.. you peon..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

TOM TO BE A "PEER"ONE MUST BE A FELLOW PHDuh ...

Ivan, read and weep post #61 of this thread. How dare you controvert the final word on the subject. Yup, that's right: I'm a peon AND DARN PROUD OF IT ! .

 

[ivan salis]

I understand on land the charting done in the layers of dirt to give "time context" due to layering of items in the dirt -- however in the ocean unless your looking for scatter patterns to find valuable items (treasure) why would you need to chart the ocean floor and where the stuff (cargo) landed on the sea floor as the ship broke up plus with the wave and surf actions things would be shifted in the ocean currents somewhat (the lighter type items) so they would be in flux quite a bit over time

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... so they would be in flux quite a bit over time

Well ... the average md'r might agree with this logic. But not a purist archie. The same logic you promote would likewise apply to inter-tidal zone wet sand: That sand changes every decade or so, when a big storm washes out the sand, and the incoming spring/summer sand re-builds the beach. Thus a new coin could be 5 ft. deep, and an old coin could be 1 inch deep. Right ? All context is "lost", Right ?

However, this has not stopped a few persons on beaches here in CA from getting the "cultural heritage" card pulled on them. Fortunately, those were flukes and .... you can hunt the state of CA beaches here till you're blue in the face.

Or how about for plowed field ? Some crops (potatoes for instance) can require disk'ing/chiselling down ... what ... 2 ft ? Thus bringing up old stuff, and driving new stuff deep. All context is lost.

But to answer your question, I'll bet that it would be the "camel's nose in the tent" routine if archies started making all sorts of exceptions. Because, let's be honest: We md'rs would then be running around splitting hairs on the value or context (preserved vs not-preserved) of every single inch of land. Put yourself in the archie's shoes: Would YOU want to be involved in those battles of semantics ? OF COURSE NOT. So much easier for them to just make is simple and say "no to all".

Which is exactly why I never ask archies silly questions. If the day came where I decided to have them all love and adore me (and "give me permission" for all the sites I hunt), is the day I would just give up. I bet there's not a site on earth (on land or sea) that you couldn't find an archie somewhere to bristle at the notion of md'ing . So are you really going to knock yourself silly hunting them all down and appeasing them all ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There was even the humorous story of an md'r on an east coast beach plying the sand for clad and/or jewelry. Some lady came up to him and was reading him the riot act. After listening to her for a bit, he began to catch vocabulary of hers which clued him in to the fact that she was speaking of archaeological concerns (old stuff).

So the md'r gleefully opened his apron and showed her that he was only finding new stuff. Presto, problem solved, right ? The archie-minded lady ... at first .... was tongue-tied. But then she regained her composure and layed into him again. Explaining that PERHAPS NOW the coins were not "artifacts". But that in 50 yrs. they would be. Hence he was robbing future generations of learning about their past.

Oh the horror. I am now reeling in guilt. Aren't you. Quick, give me an address where I can mail all my coins to, so-as-to absolve my conscience of all guilt.

 

[seekerGH]

Treasure_Hunter ​

​

I repeat, the thread is NOT about Archies or archaeology. Please put it back on topic.

Good luck!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Good luck!

oops, Ivan baited me in # 83. It wasn't my fault. Honest (durned that Ivan anyhow )

 

[Jolly Mon]

Uhhh, sure.... by those persons who stand around, underwater at the bottom of the sea at those sites, waiting to see if anyone disturbs them. Right ?

This statement is almost unbelievable in its naivete.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

This statement is almost unbelievable in its naivete.

oh, so guards DO stand watch at the bottom of the ocean, at unknown-undiscovered shipwrecks ? I stand corrected then