Help requested (Spain)

[Khayboub]

Hi everyone and hats off to you guys for your dedication and hard work, thanks to you, newbies like me are easily enlightened and become a part of the furniture.

Say I know where the San Miguel is, given the fact that I hold a proper permission for metal detecting and the area where the ship is found is not banned from treasure hunting, you imagined that? now, I decided to claim the thing and go down the legal path, where such claims are made? should I approach the American embassy in Spain or the Spanish exterior ministry? do I require a lawyer or bring my own one? Do I take with me a bar or two or just a picture will do? What sort of documents and papers are involved and how long the damn process take? Is it negotiable? Do I have a say in the terms and conditions before the claim? Are these people trustworthy?

Can someone please shed some lights on these questions. Thanks.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

I think this is a question for the shipwreck type forums. The persons who are up on wreck-diving legal issues, are more likely there, than on this particular forum. And it doesn't seem to be a question involving "Spain", as it does open international maritime waters.

But ... heck , if you think you could "pull up a few bars", why are you even fretting yourself about legal matters in the first place ? Why aren't you just harvesting the bars and profiting ? Is any one of these legal persons you fear even out there ? Underwater , middle of nowhere, that one except you even knows where it is anyhow ?

But if you chose to go down a path like Mel Fisher (because perhaps it needs industrial scale equipment methods to fully harvest), then your question will deal with exactly which waters. Even things like distance from shore can dictate national versus international waters. So post it on the shipwreck salvors forums that have evidence of lots of traffic.

Since your post is strictly hypothetical (?), get a bar first. THEN float the question among hobbyists. And THEN you will have much input, answers, etc... Because you have no idea how many people come on to forums to strategize about a "big treasure" they've "found" (past tense). In their mind's eye's, since they've honed it down to a certain meadow, or certain spot on the ocean floor, it's now merely a matter of legal issues, recovery technique methods, investors, etc.... And they usually get ignored as dreamers. A few theoretical questions are fine. But at a certain point, they just get ignored as legend-enthusiasts who are just chasing ghost stories.

 

[Khayboub]

Thanks for your input, say it's a matter of digging rather than diving. As for why bother claiming, simply because not doing so is a crime, once caught out, you might be jailed and get none of the prize, a double punishment really. I would like to get some answers for my questions if possible. Thanks.

 

[Mackaydon]

Welcome to Treasurenet !!
Are you refering to this vessel?
Wreck History
Don.......

 

[Khayboub]

I can't say more. Can anyone help me out with the questions I asked?

 

[cudamark]

If you think it's actually needed, I'd get a lawyer versed in such things. If it's here in the U.S. they're bound by client/attorney confidentiality. Spain may have the same sort of rules, but, I'd check first before disclosing location and/or type of treasure.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Thanks for your input, say it's a matter of digging rather than diving. As for why bother claiming, simply because not doing so is a crime, once caught out, you might be jailed and get none of the prize, a double punishment really. I would like to get some answers for my questions if possible. Thanks.

Yes. This is going exactly as scripted. Someone's "found" (past tense) a fabulous treasure. Sure, they haven't seen it yet, or excavated it yet. It's simply a matter of logistics. Right ? It's the durned government that stands in the way. Or (fill in the blank) : a detector that goes 6 meters deep. An entity that can smelt 500 pounds of gold under-the-table. Heavy equipment to dig the hole, etc... But rest assured, it's been "found" (past tense). Because it's most assuredly been narrowed down to a certain meadow or bottom of the ocean.

You can not be "jailed" if you don't "take" it. So go back, pick up and assess if you've actually "found" (past tense) anything. Otherwise, this is all hypothetical. And as long as it's hypothetical (no matter how sincere you are that you *know* where it is), it's going to get lumped into the dreamer category. Let it be "past tense" (even if it means leaving it exactly where it lie) and THEN ask the legal questions.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Welcome to the forum Khayboub.

I wish I could help you but treasure laws vary a lot depending on the treasure location. I might hazard a guess with more information but you are probably better off keeping details private. Other's have suggested you consult a lawyer, I agree. I suggest you select a lawyer with experience in treasure recovery that has an active practice in the State where the treasure is located.

Don't let Tom_in_CA discourage you. That's just his way of greeting people. In fact it's his response to just about any situation. Obviously he didn't read your post. I doubt it's personal he just seems to be stuck on a repetition of his "Don't ask anybody just sneak in and take it!!!" theory no matter the situation. Once you've been here a while it will become familiar and almost comforting - like the ticking of a very loud clock.

Good luck on your efforts.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I suggest you select a lawyer with experience in treasure recovery ....

Sure. Once a treasure is "found". In this case, nothing is/was found yet.

... his "Don't ask anybody just sneak in and take it!!!"...

Ha Well , when the subject has come up before, this is the consensus of forumites. Not just me. Eg.: shut up, sell it off a little at a time, etc....

 

[Clay Diggins]

Ha Well , when the subject has come up before, this is the consensus of forumites. Not just me. Eg.: shut up, sell it off a little at a time, etc....

tick... tock

 

[Khayboub]

Well no disrespect to you Tom_in_CA but I know exactly what I'm talking about, make of me whatever you want, dreamer or fantasist it doesn't matter really, once again I know what I'm talking about, you seem to be craving assurances and solid evidences, I can do that but I won't. Give dreamers a benefit of doubt and don't paint them with the same brush, there is always a first time... you know.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So it's not hypothetical then ? You have found a shipwreck laden with gold ? Such that you've actually looked and and confirmed "gold" . Right ? Not just "have it narrowed down to a certain spot on the ocean floor". Right ?

 

[Khayboub]

Tom_in_CA, I see that satisfying your curiosity is way more important than answering my questions, I'm not here to make you believe my story, you are entitled to your uncertainty.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom_in_CA, I see that satisfying your curiosity ...

Yes. It is a curiosity of the psychology of treasure-fever. Perfectly valid to ask questions about disposition of a potential (not past tense) find. I'm just intrigued of the caliber of the finds (past tense) reported that .... when you delve deeper .... turns out the persons haven't found anything yet.

 

[Khayboub]

Well there is a fine line between questioning things and being dismissive I think.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well there is a fine line between questioning things and being dismissive I think.

Tell that to the legions of folks popping on about something they "found " (past tense). They see no "fine line ".

 

[Honest Samuel]

I can't say more. Can anyone help me out with the questions I asked?

Check with a lawyer in Spain who is a expert dealing in treasures. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[Khayboub]

What are all those conspiracy theories based on? Why would Spanish government want to screw someone for coming forward and doing a clean job? Is that the reward for being honest??

 

[Khayboub]

So as I understand, there is no laws governing found shipwrecks... I know who I'm up against but I will make it difficult for them to screw me, I will head to the American embassy first and see if I can get a lawyer or a presentation, I'll get them involved and then head to the ministry of culture. As I mentioned before it's a matter digging rather than diving. A gold brick or two on the table so we can get down to business and if me or my lawyer are not impressed then I'm walking off and taking my secret with me to the grave, they can arrest me if they want so the whole thing goes wild and interesting.

 

[ARC]

No laws... ?

:/

Um... there is international law.

Which governs ALL shipwrecks in ALL waters.