Help Needed - New Find

cooper42

Jr. Member
Jul 10, 2006
33
0
Fort Worth, TX
Hello all.

This is my first post here on the boards, and I'm sure this is probably a naive question, but please bear with me.

My father found a ship buried in river sediment on the west coast of Florida many years ago, but never told anybody. He tells me that he was skinny-dipping in the river shortly after a series of hurricanes and saw the deck of the ship (which is usually completely buried in silt). He visually saw part of the deck (largely intact and angling down into the silt), took a large, blue plate and sold it to a collector, but then he never did anything else with the find. I know this probably doesn't sound believable, but 10-15 years ago, he confided in a close friend of the family who then went down to the river and confirmed the find.

I don't remember nor do I want to embellish the dimensions of what they found, but apparently they measured a large area of metal under the river, with smaller pings of metal out to a reef past the mouth of the river. My dad's friend told me that he even stood on a wood deck, buried under some muck and not even chest deep in the water. They also found no record of a wreck in this particular river.

Apparently, their negotiations with Florida didn't go well at all, so the ship still sits there these many years later. Now that I'm an adult and can do something about it, I'm ready to act on this information. My question is simple...what should I do first?

I don't want to get in trouble with the law, and I'd even be willing to take a small percentage from the state just for telling them where it is. Is this a naive view? Who should I contact, and is it just wishful thinking that the state would even bargain with me? I don't have a lawyer, an archaelogist, or anything of the sort. I simply know where a (treasure?) ship lies and want to do something about it.

In a perfect world, I could find an honest salvor who has some sort of standard contract to sign, I could give them the info and let them work the details with Florida, and at the end of the day I'd have the satisfaction of proving to myself that this is real (as well as a percentage of any profits). Is there anybody out there who I can trust, who will give me the time of day? I don't have the expertise to do this alone.
 

Re: Help needed

You will get some very expert advice from people here in the forum , but one thing I do know...Do not divulge anything until you have actually seen this with your own eyes and can trust the people you tell.
Read up on the laws, know them well and good luck!
 

Which county in Florida is this river in? I ask because i am located in Piellas county. Any idea how old this wreck is?
 

This seems to be a part what I was talking about concerning a Fleet of Spanish ships sinking in the Gulf of Mexico.
YES the mud will keep the wood material from rotting and cannons from rusting away.
I would suggest that you take some photos of what you and your Dad found.
DO NOT GIVE ANYONE ANY IDEA WHERE THIS RIVER IS-THERE ARE THOSE ON THIS FORUM THAT CAN TRACK A FLEA THROUGH THE JUNGLE. :o
Good hunting my friend.
Peg Leg
 

i second this statement ! ''DO NOT GIVE ANYONE ANY IDEA WHERE THIS RIVER IS-THERE ARE THOSE ON THIS FORUM THAT CAN TRACK A FLEA THROUGH THE JUNGLE''...............gldhntr
 

gldhntr said:
i second this statement ! ''DO NOT GIVE ANYONE ANY IDEA WHERE THIS RIVER IS-THERE ARE THOSE ON THIS FORUM THAT CAN TRACK A FLEA THROUGH THE JUNGLE''...............gldhntr



.........dangit guys.....just when I was so close to that flea......... ;) :D :D
 

The state of Florida's percentage, 15 years ago, as now, is 25%. I think that is fair. My advice? Contact the Division of Historical Resources. You will first need to get an exploration permit from them. You will need to hire an RPA certified marine archaeologist. You will have to do a magnetometer survey. Later you can apply for a salvage permit and will need DEP and Army Corps of Engineers dredge and fill permits. You may also need a marine biologist to photograph or videotape the bottom terrain to ensure you are not harming any fish or sea(river) life or any of the reef in your excavations. This entire process takes time, money and patience but is the only way to legally salvage a shipwreck in Florida waters.

Some folks here may suggest that you tell nobody and try to work the wreck candestinely. Good luck with that! Just based on your very brief description of the wrecksite-this would be a near impossibility. And foolish.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Thanks for the help, guys.

CG C130Nav, you've gotta be kidding, right? I can't tell you the county it's in...

Peg Leg, you're right about the mud preserving the wood. My dad said it was in remarkable condition because of its location, and he did say that he saw cannons also. I can't remember details on this, though (size, number, length, etc.). I'll check with him on some of these details, now that I'm ready to move forward.

And Tom, you're right that it would be impossible to work this clandestinely, which is one reason I haven't pursued it yet. I'm afraid that if I start snooping around in the river, people will notice and then the gig is up. I've thought of discrete ways of checking on the story myself, but they're all pretty cheesy and amateurish, so I haven't.

I'll keep y'all posted on which direction I go with this. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
 

gdaddyflex,

I read on some of your other posts that if a ship lies in a river that it belongs to the state. Did I read that correctly? If so, that would hurt...
 

Cooper42; first let me start by welcoming you to TreasureNet. Go to to the "Legal Issues" on TNet, then read the thread "Florida". You will find the ROE. (rules of engagement), for hunting in Florida waters along with links to the state statutes. This is going to hurt as you put it, as the state has control over all navigable water ways.
Please listen to the wisdom of Gdaddyflex, he knows what he is talking about. Follow the rules and the law, or you risk all. There are a few who think that they are above the law, and will plunder wrecks with total disregard for history or environment. Getting a permit can be a frustrating experience, but once you have it you will have the law on your side, and your search and recovery lease belongs to you and no one else. It's much better to have the legal protection, than the constent fear that pirates may try to jump your claim, or worse, the state will take your toys and put you in a small cell with bubba.

Q
 

Thanks guys. I've toyed with the idea of just going and skimming some off the top, but the risk is just too great. Besides, that's not how I operate. If I can't do it right, I won't do it.
 

Stick with gaddyflex very sound advice. If you can work with conservator or someone like him, you are way ahead of the game when it comes to dealing with permits. They can be a pain and it may take over a year to get all the paper in, however you will be legal. Honesty goes a long way when dealing with Underwater bureaucrats. I have been dealing with them since the early 70's They had been burned so many times that they were virtually impossible to deal with then. Real trust was decades in the making.
Good luck, Good hunting.
Splash,
Don Kincaid
 

Hey, Doc,

I'm not sure if I understand your most recent post. Can you please explain?

What are you saying is a give away, non-disclosure documents? And are you saying that it will cost me too much in legal fees to enforce them? My biggest concern at this point is giving someone info about my site to check it out without getting screwed, so how do I go about this, if legal documents are impossible to enforce?

Finally, what are Trolls, people who are looking for suckers like me to spill my guts?

Thanks
 

Hi there from Brisbane,Australia! re your riverine ship in the mud? Do not even tell your mum about it,.,.,.seek law enforcing authorities,witout saying where it lies,.,.get their mettle,see how they respond to your inquiry,.,.,.I have had a lot to do with salvage firms just regarding my list of ships with bullion on them,.,..,they all think I am a blonde? They ask for ,.,.Name,then they ask for location! Then,whats on it,.,.,.then they speak of non-disclosure documents,which are worthless,once they have the above.,.,even Greg Stemm tried this with me back in 2000,.,.he flew me to Hong Kong,to see my expurgated list of vessels,was then supposed to give me a bank cheque for $2 million to see the unexpurgated list of my ships.,,.,.,.was very angry I would not show him that one,.,..,but he never had the money with him either,.,.,.do i make myself clear,.,.,.you do not reveal to anyone which river it lies in,until you are covered with security in paper from your govt. mate ok,.,.,..,cheers mate,.,.,.best of luck ,..,
Tezz
Brisbane
Australia
[email protected]
 

You didn't tell him what a TROLL is.
 

I thought I would throw this in. NDNC AGREEMENTS are signed every day and in every field one can think of. There are simple one page NDNC aggreements and there are multi page NDNC aggreements. Everyone IS enforceable to a point.
You do not sign anything with anyone that you do not trust. Trust is estiblished by meeting everyone face to face. There must be a CONFORT ZONE estiblished
In this case there must be people who have the back ground and can back up what they say and be able to PROVE they are for real. We all know that PIRATES are alive today as they were in the past.
You can ask questions on this forum till you turn blue and in the end it is up to YOU to make a choice on who to trust.
BUT REMEMBER THIS.
The wreck is still there waiting for someone to stumble across it and someday someone will WHAT THEN-YOU ARE OUT 100% AND WILL GET "0", NOTHING.
I would suggest that you make a move RIGHT NOW and start to cover your butt. I hate to say this but since you posted some information concerning the WRECK there are people already starting to look and you must also remember that there are over 13,000 people on this forum and all are Treasure Hunters.
Peg Leg
 

Hey Doc, that was not an insult. Why did you think so? Cooper, I see two problems with your wreck; if it is a Spanish galleon (since you said there might be cannons) in such shallow water, the Spaniards did definitely take everything of value off the boat. If it is a Civil War wreck- forget it! The U.S. Navy claims all warships (including Confederate) as their property. The third possibility is that when the galleon wrecked, the upper deck separated from the hull and all the treasure is still offshore on a ballast pile.

I thought trolls are creatures that lived under bridges.
 

hey all... im new to posting here. been reading the boards for a long time though...

About the non-disclosure agreements... I'm an attorney up in RI. Agreements of any kind are always subject to problems with enforcement. If there is any wiggle room in language and definitions, then the argument can always be made about "interpretation" of the agreement.

In general non-disclosure agreements serve their purpose. But as someone already posted... you need to trust the people you're doing business with. If there is even the smallest inkling of distrust, find someone else. now, about enforcing the agreement. If someone does go back on the agreement and renegs on the contract (essentially that is what a non-disclosure agreement is), you probably have an excellent case against them. You will probably even eventually win. But at what cost. You can get a judgment against the wrongdoer, a court order saying that they were wrong and you should be granted relief of some sort. But all that is usless if the proceeds from this wreck have a) been spent fighting the suit, b) been hidden and dissipated as "operating costs", or c) flat out stolen and spent.

Non-disclosures are a neccesity in this case, but please, find someone you trust, do your own research first (legal issues), get some advice from people here. You can quickly find out who knows what they're talking about and who is trustworthy from making inquiries. And then, when you have the knowledge behind you, have all your "ducks in a row", and know who you can trust... start the process to "stake the claim"

Hope that helps
steve
 

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