Heavy Colonial-Era Pewter Lid--Any Ideas??

[Erik in NJ]

I found this at approx 12" - 14" in South Jersey while hunting with NJLargeCent and GrantHansen. It was in a large field across the street from a church. This was one of the very few old relics that was found in this field. Any ideas on what it might have been used for?

It weighs 1-1/2 to 2 lb. and is 3-1/2" long (incl. hinge), 1-1/2" tall, and 3" wide. Features a 12-petal floral design on top.

N.B. that the third photo depicts the item from the bottom.

Thanks for any insight!

 

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[Erik in NJ]

Hi Matt!

Thanks for jumping in here. I just saw your post so sorry for my delayed reply. The church was a Roman Catholic church and I don't believe it's terribly old. I can check on the date. This was in a lot across the street from the church that the church owned and it was the only old relic that we found there...lots of modern junk like screw caps were found. I did not see a cemetary anywhere near where this was found. May need to do some research into what this property was used for if we can find a map from the 1876 Atlas. Very good point though that it may actually have been used upside down from the way I had envisioned it!

I'm thinking... NOT a lid but a shelf.

What you're calling the top is the decorative bottom. The "hinge" is the attachment point to a statue or a monument or even a tombstone. Possibly a flower vase sat on it. Or a bird bath basin. You said it was found across from a church. Was there a cemetery? Prayer garden? Picnic grounds? Any church related activity area might have had an angel or cherub statue that held flowers...

DCMatt

 

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[Erik in NJ]

Hi Dawn!

Thanks I'm not 100% sure that it's pewter, but from what I've seen pewter starts crack and crumble to an extent after being in the ground for a long time. There was no white patina on this piece so I felt pretty sure it was pewter. It's quite old looking and a pretty piece. Any ideas ??

Really cool find! Are you sure that it is pewter?

 

[Erik in NJ]

I'm voting flagon lid.

I didn't even know what a flagon was until today I'm still searching for one that is close to the robustness of my item....take a look how thick the metal is. It certainly would have been a heavy lid to lift--that's for sure! Thanks for your take on it!

 

[surf]

take a look how thick the metal is. It certainly would have been a heavy lid to lift--that's for sure!

Hey Erik,

No matter the weight it would open easily with the thumblift.

Beer Stein Lid Types and Classifications | Beer Steins Blog

 

[woodstock]

I think it's heavy due to being designed not to rattle or jump open during travel , or to retain heat in a large vessel that carried hot food or soup like a thermos . Roads were not smooth back then but rough trails and your ride was powered by horses or oxen and things were easy to spill . That makes be believe that the vessel it covered was larger than a Stein , maybe a large Tankard or something carried while traveling the unpaved wilderness for cold drinks or warm drinks , or some kind of food that could be poured like soup or stew ... just a thought to toss around with all of you . IMHO , Woodstock

 

[Breezie]

Since it is basically only 3 inches in diameter, yet weights 2 pounds, I think it could be a 'foot' to some type of vintage garden decor like an urn, fountain, bench, etc. This would tie-in to the church being across the street, since many of the older churches have gardens.

My 2nd thought: It could be the base for a Victorian garden hose holder similar to the one below, except yours has a single arm instead of double.

Interesting find Breezie

 

[Erik in NJ]

Hi Surf!

Thanks so much for the attachment as now I can properly name the various parts. The thunblift is unfortunately broken off, but the hinge pin can still be pretty clearly seen which I believe tells us that it's a lid of some sort for a stein, tankard, or flagon. I appreciate your post!

Hey Erik,

No matter the weight it would open easily with the thumblift.

Beer Stein Lid Types and Classifications | Beer Steins Blog

 

[Erik in NJ]

Hi Woodstock! Excellent points you are making! Now I just need to find an some sort of example in the literature that is similar.

Several members here like DCMatt are great about coming up with reference books on this stuff--I looked but could not find any good references on flagons etc. Dawn asked me if I was sure it was pewter and my answer was no, but this was my best guess. I'd be curious as to what people think the substrate metal is and an approximate age based on the style of the motif and the way it has aged.

I think it's heavy due to being designed not to rattle or jump open during travel , or to retain heat in a large vessel that carried hot food or soup like a thermos . Roads were not smooth back then but rough trails and your ride was powered by horses or oxen and things were easy to spill . That makes be believe that the vessel it covered was larger than a Stein , maybe a large Tankard or something carried while traveling the unpaved wilderness for cold drinks or warm drinks , or some kind of food that could be poured like soup or stew ... just a thought to toss around with all of you . IMHO , Woodstock

 

[Erik in NJ]

Hi Breezie, Thanks for your post and compliments! It is pretty robust for it's size...unfortunately I left it by accident at NJLargeCent's house last week so I don't have it front of me...the weight is an approximate weight that I guessed, but I may be wrong. The reason I don't believe it to be a "foot" etc. is that I would think the pewter would be way too soft for this application--most of these items would have been made out of iron or bronze, no? There's also the hinge pin which can be seen from the side which I believe tells us that this item moved along an axis as a pivot. I wish I had the item here in my hands as I would have more time examining it with a 10x jeweler's loupe, but I'll have to wait till I see James next.

Since it is basically only 3 inches in diameter, yet weights 2 pounds, I think it could be a 'foot' to some type of vintage garden decor like an urn, fountain, bench, etc. This would tie-in to the church being across the street, since many of the older churches have gardens.

My 2nd thought: It could be the base for a Victorian garden hose holder similar to the one below, except yours has a single arm instead of double.

Interesting find Breezie

View attachment 820464

 

[Breezie]

Hi Breezie, Thanks for your post and compliments! It is pretty robust for it's size...unfortunately I left it by accident at NJLargeCent's house last week so I don't have it front of me...the weight is an approximate weight that I guessed, but I may be wrong. The reason I don't believe it to be a "foot" etc. is that I would think the pewter would be way too soft for this application--most of these items would have been made out of iron or bronze, no? There's also the hinge pin which can be seen from the side which I believe tells us that this item moved along an axis as a pivot. I wish I had the item here in my hands as I would have more time examining it with a 10x jeweler's loupe, but I'll have to wait till I see James next.

Hey Eric,
I didn't realize it had a hinge, so we can 'can' my idea. With the hinge in mind, could it have been a Victorian foundation vent or soffit cover? I'm assuming back during the Victorian times, they would have needed a way to open/close the vents. Foundation Vents & Soffit Vents : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce


Breezie

 

[Erik in NJ]

Hi Breezie, Thanks for the cool link. Someone made the point on the main forum (BuckleBoy?) that because it was pewter it would not have been used for an outdoor application. I'm not sure what a foundation vent is even So I don't know....do you know of any good reference books on 17th and 18th century tankards and flagons? The area in which it was found had a lot of Colonial activity so my gut tells me based on the condition of the pewter (the heavy cracking) that it dates to Colonial times as opposed to Victorian--but you may be better versed in giving me a date based on the flower motif on the dome. It was dug quite deep too at 12" to 14".

Hey Eric,
I didn't realize it had a hinge, so we can 'can' my idea. With the hinge in mind, could it have been a Victorian foundation vent or soffit cover? I'm assuming back during the Victorian times, they would have needed a way to open/close the vents. Foundation Vents & Soffit Vents : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce


Breezie