HART PAPERS... ANOTHER "cover-story"? HAZLEWOOD/HART Ciphers?

[ECS]

Reviewing HART PAPERS about 2 Treasure Hunters from Roanoke, Va.; hmmm...

THE HART PAPERS contain several questions and embellishments from the original source of Ward's THE BEALE PAPERS.
George L Hart states in the title-"presenting details of an alleged burial of gold, silver, and jewels...by Thomas Jefferson Beale and associates..."-Ward's "J" has become the name "Jefferson".
It seems from the text that N H Hazelwood who gave Clayton Hart 8 sheets of cipher covered papers instead of the 3 in the BEALE PAPERS that the "unknown author" numbered by length. never mentioned Beale or Ward or the BEALE PAPERS.
"About the time of Hazelwood's failing health, Clayton learned that a man by the name of Ward had spent many years trying to find a key, or keys, to the ciphers..."
This is when Clayton Hart traveled to Lynchburg to speak with Ward and his son as well as Ward's neighbors about the BEALE PAPERS.
From the text we are told that only a few pamphlet copies existed due to most being destroyed in a fire "before a plan of distribution or sale".
By this, THE HART PAPERS allude that Ward was the "unknown author" and that only a few copies were placed on sale- which conflicts with the run of adds in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN and the eventual lowering of the price to 10 cents.
*NOTE* There is NO outside documentation of this meeting outside of THE HART PAPERS- not in the newspaper interview in 1934 by Martha Rivers Adams with Ward's daughter, granddaughter, and grandson or in the reports Lt Thomas Fawcett of his interviews in the 1940's to Col Friedman.
The first and only mention is in the Jan 1, 1952 HART PAPERS.
Then where THE BEALE PAPERS had rumors of Indian massacres, the medium "detailed their being set upon by Indians...when all were killed and scalped".
There is also the mention of "THE PLANTERS HOTEL' in St Louis that was never named in the original BEALE PAPERS from where the unreceived "key letter" was sent.
*NOTE* Claudine Fulton Ellis utilized the Planters Hotel "key letter" not being delivered with another cast of players not mentioned in either previous works.
George mentions that a Mr Otey is his wife's first cousin (is this the Mr Otey of the iron box shown to Pauline Innis?) and also writes, he, "the writer will make an effort to put in writing all that he knows or surmises about the above subject".
How much of THE HART PAPERS was "surmised" by George L Hart from Ward's copyrighted BEALE PAPERS?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

THE HART PAPERS contain several questions and embellishments from the original source of Ward's THE BEALE PAPERS.
George L Hart states in the title-"presenting details of an alleged burial of gold, silver, and jewels...by Thomas Jefferson Beale and associates..."-Ward's "J" has become the name "Jefferson".
It seems from the text that N H Hazelwood who gave Clayton Hart 8 sheets of cipher covered papers instead of the 3 in the BEALE PAPERS that the "unknown author" numbered by length. never mentioned Beale or Ward or the BEALE PAPERS.
"About the time of Hazelwood's failing health, Clayton learned that a man by the name of Ward had spent many years trying to find a key, or keys, to the ciphers..."
This is when Clayton Hart traveled to Lynchburg to speak with Ward and his son as well as Ward's neighbors about the BEALE PAPERS.
From the text we are told that only a few pamphlet copies existed due to most being destroyed in a fire "before a plan of distribution or sale".
By this, THE HART PAPERS allude that Ward was the "unknown author" and that only a few copies were placed on sale- which conflicts with the run of adds in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN and the eventual lowering of the price to 10 cents.
*NOTE* There is NO outside documentation of this meeting outside of THE HART PAPERS- not in the newspaper interview in 1934 by Martha Rivers Adams with Ward's daughter, granddaughter, and grandson or in the reports Lt Thomas Fawcett of his interviews in the 1940's to Col Friedman.
The first and only mention is in the Jan 1, 1952 HART PAPERS.
Then where THE BEALE PAPERS had rumors of Indian massacres, the medium "detailed their being set upon by Indians...when all were killed and scalped".
There is also the mention of "THE PLANTERS HOTEL' in St Louis that was never named in the original BEALE PAPERS from where the unreceived "key letter" was sent.
*NOTE* Claudine Fulton Ellis utilized the Planters Hotel "key letter" not being delivered with another cast of players not mentioned in either previous works.
George mentions that a Mr Otey is his wife's first cousin (is this the Mr Otey of the iron box shown to Pauline Innis?) and also writes, he, "the writer will make an effort to put in writing all that he knows or surmises about the above subject".
How much of THE HART PAPERS was "surmised" by George L Hart from Ward's copyrighted BEALE PAPERS?

PROBABLY just adding his & Bro. Clayton's PERSONAL experiences... dunno.

 

[ECS]

Notice the "alleged" in the title and later the "surmised" and much of THE HART PAPERS is an alleged hearsay account of what Clayton told brother George, the rest George surmised.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So...? BOTH Hart Bros. had PERSONAL EXPERIENCES in Bedford County, etc., looking for the B.T. Do YOU have the SAME...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Reviewing HART PAPERS about 2 Treasure Hunters from Roanoke, Va.; hmmm...

Pauline got a copy of the Ciphers from the Hart Bros. (GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE); THAT kicked off her & Walter Innis' journey; so, a 2nd "couple" of Treasure Hunters... on HORSES!

 

[ECS]

So...? BOTH Hart Bros. had PERSONAL EXPERIENCES in Bedford County, etc., looking for the B.T. Do YOU have the SAME...?

...and this knowledge of their personal experiences is verified by contemporary sources outside of THE HART PAPERS?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

...and this knowledge of their personal experiences is verified by contemporary sources outside of THE HART PAPERS?

WHO CARES! Do YOU have PERSONAL experiences looking for the B.T. in Bedford County, Va. TIRED of YOUR BULLYING!

 

[ECS]

I am not "bullying" you.
As with the Beale story, just asking if there exists any contemporary collaborative documentation that can prove that story contained in the Hart Papers actually occurred outside of its pages?

 

[franklin]

Why do you always ask for things you know has not yet been proven to exist. It is relatively easy to ask for verification but it can take a life time to answer either one of your questions. And yet there may be no answer. So believe as you will, it is always a two lane highway.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AGREE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I am not "bullying" you.
As with the Beale story, just asking if there exists any contemporary collaborative documentation that can prove that story contained in the Hart Papers actually occurred outside of its pages?

ONE MORE TIME... have YOU looked "on the ground" for the B.T. in Bedford County, Va.; Yes or No...

 

[ECS]

Why do you always ask for things you know has not yet been proven to exist. It is relatively easy to ask for verification but it can take a life time to answer either one of your questions. And yet there may be no answer. So believe as you will, it is always a two lane highway.

It is because of statements like this that are accepted as proof of the Beale story:
"We secured confirmation as to the Washington Hotel and its proprietor, Mr Morriss, during the period of 1819 to 1863"
-THE HART PAPERS, by George L Hart

We know the answer concerning Robert Morriss' timeline as proprietor of the Washington Hotel in Lynchburg.
Another example of George L Hart "writing all he knows or surmises about the above subject".
There is a reason why "things have not yet been proven to exist"- because they only exist in the pages in the two Beale pamphlets discussed, therefore NO contemporary collaborating confirmation, be it newspaper articles concerning an eyewitness to the events in the works (a pamphlet review of the story is not confirmation), journals, diaries, which leads to the obvious conclusion that the Beale story is a work of fiction, and the various embellishments are fictional additions to the original fictional tale.
It has been well established that after 135+ years after Ward's publication of the BEALE PAPERS, not one single piece of evidence has been presented that can prove the Beale perilous adventure ever occurred.
That should also satisfy the above question.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! YOU have a "single piece of evidence" that it DIDN'T occur... just SURMISE such…? Heh...

 

[ECS]

THE HART PAPERS contain several questions and embellishments from the original source of Ward's THE BEALE PAPERS.
George L Hart states in the title-"presenting details of an alleged burial of gold, silver, and jewels...by Thomas Jefferson Beale and associates..."-Ward's "J" has become the name "Jefferson".
It seems from the text that N H Hazelwood who gave Clayton Hart 8 sheets of cipher covered papers instead of the 3 in the BEALE PAPERS that the "unknown author" numbered by length. never mentioned Beale or Ward or the BEALE PAPERS.
"About the time of Hazelwood's failing health, Clayton learned that a man by the name of Ward had spent many years trying to find a key, or keys, to the ciphers..."
This is when Clayton Hart traveled to Lynchburg to speak with Ward and his son as well as Ward's neighbors about the BEALE PAPERS.
From the text we are told that only a few pamphlet copies existed due to most being destroyed in a fire "before a plan of distribution or sale".
By this, THE HART PAPERS allude that Ward was the "unknown author" and that only a few copies were placed on sale- which conflicts with the run of adds in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN and the eventual lowering of the price to 10 cents.
*NOTE* There is NO outside documentation of this meeting outside of THE HART PAPERS- not in the newspaper interview in 1934 by Martha Rivers Adams with Ward's daughter, granddaughter, and grandson or in the reports Lt Thomas Fawcett of his interviews in the 1940's to Col Friedman.
The first and only mention is in the Jan 1, 1952 HART PAPERS.
Then where THE BEALE PAPERS had rumors of Indian massacres, the medium "detailed their being set upon by Indians...when all were killed and scalped".
There is also the mention of "THE PLANTERS HOTEL' in St Louis that was never named in the original BEALE PAPERS from where the unreceived "key letter" was sent.
*NOTE* Claudine Fulton Ellis utilized the Planters Hotel "key letter" not being delivered with another cast of players not mentioned in either previous works.
George mentions that a Mr Otey is his wife's first cousin (is this the Mr Otey of the iron box shown to Pauline Innis?) and also writes, he, "the writer will make an effort to put in writing all that he knows or surmises about the above subject".
How much of THE HART PAPERS was "surmised" by George L Hart from Ward's copyrighted BEALE PAPERS?

There have been many assumed surmised connections to the Beale Papers/Hart Papers and alleged as factual, but in all reality most is pure speculation that is force fitted to bolster a pet theory.
It is not "bullying" to question statements posted as fact that lack verification, nor is it "bullying" to post actual verifiable facts.
The words "alleged" and "surmised" ARE NOT verification of factual documented truth, and these words employed by George L Hart allude that all that was written in the Hart Papers was not necessarily a true account of actual events which explain the glaring differences between the original source material of the Beale Papers, and his January 1,1952 story.
If anyone has any legitimate documented verification that can collaborate the original source material of Ward's copyrighted pamphlet, please bring it forth- it would serve well to end the claims of "bullying" when "alleged facts" are questioned.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

STILL "at it", tho...

 

[ECS]

LOL! YOU have a "single piece of evidence" that it DIDN'T occur... just SURMISE such…? Heh...

The total and complete lack of any outside collaborating evidence that can confirm the Beale story occurred outside of the pamphlet's pages carries its own preponderance.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The total and complete lack of any outside collaborating evidence that can confirm the Beale story occurred outside of the pamphlet's pages carries its own preponderance.

NOT interested in "The Beale Story"; YOU surmise in preponderance...

 

[ECS]

STILL "at it", tho...

Just trying to separate the jive from the real, my friend.
In the Beale Papers, the narrative text states that the "unknown author" solved C2 with the DOI after many years of working on the ciphers. It also states that Ward had NO knowledge of the Beale story, ciphers , etc until the "unknown author" presented him with a finished manuscript.
In the Hart Papers George L Hart writes that "That Ward...succeeded in finding the key to cipher no 2"
Another example of the discrepancies found in the Hart Papers from the original 1885 Beale Papers source material.
All these discrepancies and the addition of new names and places not mentioned in the original, cast doubt on the validity of the Hart Papers.
I am surprised that these differences haven't been addressed before.

 

[franklin]

They have now and forever more.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

They have now and forever more.

ARE they...?