Harassed at my local ball field

[Corey Shadler]

I was hunting at my local ball field last night. A guy came over and was very angry about me being there. I tried to explain to him that I had already checked with the police and our mayor years ago and there are no laws against it. I tried to explain to him and show him how I do not destroy anything by cutting out the plug of grass and filling my holes back in and putting the plug of grass back so you can't even tell I was there. I could understand his point if I was sloppy and not filling in my holes or not putting the grass plug back in. He said he doesn't care . He told me he is a member of the borough council and at the next town meeting he is going to purpose a law outlawing metal detecting in our town. Any suggestions of how I can stop this guy from passing this law?

 

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[Xraywolf]

Thanks for the good advice everyone! It would be a shame to loose this spot for me. Xraywolf. It's definitely not a modern ball field. No lights. Definitely not maintained well. There are ruts all throughout the infield from rain washouts. And every time I hunt there I find good stuff like this.View attachment 1479796

Ok, I was thinking a well maintained field with dirt infield ect, lot of those around here I never detected even once.
If it is public property and not well maintained, for sure its fair game. I'd tell the guy don't like it ? Call the cops then. He has no authority and very unlikely he is going to get an ordinance enacted on a whim, probably just hoping to scare you away.

 

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[pearson]

I would have kicked his a$$

 

[pearson]

Those are good finds bro. Maybe detect when they aren't having games

 

[sprailroad]

Corey, read your post. Unfortunately, you ran into a "nut" case. Someone who does not engage in nor understand our hobby, therefore, no one should. They see someone "metal detecting", and they only see that "someone" is either destroying or stealing property. And "they" will put a stop to it!!!, It happens, rarely, but it happens. Lots of really good advice has been given here. Yes, If you can attend that meeting, do so. Yes, do not bring it up, this other guy may not even be there, and if he is, he may have forgotten about it, but if he is and does, be ready, for like it or not, you now represent Milford, PA and metal detecting. Yes, take pictures if you can, Yes, bring along all the trash, and DO bring along dug ammo, asking if that fella would prefer that you toss them back into the field, and stay "calm", allow him to get excited and perhaps lose HIS temper, making a fool of Him-self.. I myself skip the " perfectly " manicured ball fields, there are other places, but yours sounds like anything but that, ask just "what" damage was being done, and again, would he "feel" better if you were to return to that field and sprinkle the trash around the field to make everything right again? Put it on him to explain himself. All this should never have happened, but it did, you ran into that "one" guy. So, approach this in a wise and again, "calm" manner, if for no other reason than your own amusement, at this point you've nothing to lose, and again, it may not even come up. Good luck with this my friend, don't know what else to add.

 

[Rawhide]

Would make a donation to the senior board members charity. Before the meeting of course.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Why would you not have knee pads, pouch, headphones and a digger? It is pretty hard to not use those, though I have found a lot of the money I have found is right on top of the grass, some need digging, and once you found it, you have to put it somewhere.

I would also add that it's a myth that the reason for "scrams" is likely because "someone saw your digger lesche" (or apron , or knee pads, etc....). Trust me: The MERE SIGHT of a man with a detector has connotations, EVEN If the passerby never saw a digger probe or whatever. Too many people's instinctive reaction to merely see a detector is "holes". EVEN if they never saw you stop to dig one, and EVEN if they never see a digger tool.

 

[13dolphins1]

I would also add that it's a myth that the reason for "scrams" is likely because "someone saw your digger lesche" (or apron , or knee pads, etc....). Trust me: The MERE SIGHT of a man with a detector has connotations, EVEN If the passerby never saw a digger probe or whatever. Too many people's instinctive reaction to merely see a detector is "holes". EVEN if they never saw you stop to dig one, and EVEN if they never see a digger tool.

Agreed. Example is a beach that says no detecting yet they will hold sand castle tourneys or allow you to dig a hole to China as long as your not carrying a detector it is ok...lol. Not logical other than seeing that detector suddenly its....we have a problem.

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[Keppy]

Corey, we are rooting for you. A few observations:

a) This is just SO typical of places people have "permission" for. No matter how many or who tell you "yes", it's not carte-blanche positive that any other busy-body can't STILL "send you packing". So I sort of have to chuckle when I read of someone who got "permission", thinking they are just free & clear now. Not only because this story of yours is all-too-common, but also that in their attempt to get permission, they can often-time get a "no", from a place where, quite frankly, no one would ever have seen or bothered them (ie.: the issue never occurred to the person you are asking).

b) But in this case, you DID get a "yes", and now, despite that, you are harrassed. This is exactly why 90% of my turfed park hunting is done at night nowadays. So peaceful. So serene. NOT because I think I'm doing something wrong, but EXACTLY because of what's happened to you. Like nose-picking: Not illegal, nor does it need permission, but ... we all use discreet timing so as not to offend the squeemish. Right ?

c) Because let's face it: MD'ing has ... uh .... connotations. That you might be about to leave a hole. And you will most often be on the loosing end of that debate.

d) bilder's advice of taking pix of dog crap, and asking why there's a contradiction of complaints / enforcement is NOT a good idea. Because quite frankly, the person who didn't pick up their dog's crap was probably in violation of some rule. And simply wasn't seen. It's a non-issue of how many others "get away" with something. In fact, to try to do that is merely to paint a poor picture of yourself, as if you are comparing yourself to other forms of egregious activity. On the contrary, you want to paint yourself as innocuous.

e) If you go to this meeting, do NOT bring it up, unless HE brings it up. Because it could be an idle complaint. Ie.: he may never bring up a proposed rule. He might just forget about it. And if YOU start trying to "seek clarification" (ie.: start the discussion at a city council meeting), you might just open a can of worms and swat hornets nests. So don't fight anything, unless something is truly proposed as a rule.

f) Just go at night from here on out. Or other such odd-ball times when that singular lookie-lou isn't around. Problem solved. JMHO.

Cory,.. Tom gave you the best answer here just do as he said and you should have no more problems.

 

[bilder]

Corey, we are rooting for you. A few observations:


d) bilder's advice of taking pix of dog crap, and asking why there's a contradiction of complaints / enforcement is NOT a good idea. Because quite frankly, the person who didn't pick up their dog's crap was probably in violation of some rule. And simply wasn't seen. It's a non-issue of how many others "get away" with something. In fact, to try to do that is merely to paint a poor picture of yourself, as if you are comparing yourself to other forms of egregious activity. On the contrary, you want to paint yourself as innocuous.


f) Just go at night from here on out. Or other such odd-ball times when that singular lookie-lou isn't around. Problem solved. JMHO.

Think you missed my point.

Laws against metal detecting (in my area at least)- Zero.

Laws against letting your dog crap on public property without cleaning it up- 2

Laws against littering- 3

Laws against letting your animal run unleashed in public- 1

Laws against camping in public parks- 2

Yet I have had talks with "officials" who while talking to me about something that is legal and has no laws against it, are witness to one or more violations that they choose to ignore. I do not know about you, but this bothers the hell out of me.

This is not to imply that I am doing something wrong. It is to illustrate just how many officials will ignore actual laws on the books and go after something they do not understand or have a wrong impression about.

I am sick of having to defend my legal activity to people who have no freaking clue. I will not go out at night like someone who has something to hide. To me that just implies that we are doing something wrong. I have just as much right to legally use public property in the daylight as anyone else.

I am nice and polite about it and do not get in anyone's way. Yet when Mr. Busy Body walks 200 yards past unleashed dogs, homeless guys smoking weed, and other such violations just to talk to me about my evil metal detector, well.... I get a little annoyed.

Sometimes in order to deal with a jerk, you have to be the bigger jerk. My experience has taught me that this is often the case with my local government.

Just a grumpy old man who has developed a low tolerance for idiots in charge.

 

[MUDSLINGER]

I've actually had people throw bottles at me from a moving car while on the side of the road at an old rest/picnic area years ago. Never hunt with your back to the road. The discussion hear worries me about the future of our hobby.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Agreed. Example is a beach that says no detecting yet they will hold sand castle tourneys or allow you to dig a hole to China as long as your not carrying a detector ....

In cases like that (supposed beaches where md'ing is not allowed), I don't think the issue is "holes". Hence it can not be compared to the inconsistency of sand-castle holes. The logic may apply to park turf, but ... you're right: WHAT HARM CAN YOU DO TO BEACH SAND ?

Instead, if you're ever at a beach where there's truly such a rule, it's about cultural heritage I bet. Not "holes". Because (gasp) heaven forbid you found a coin over 50 yrs. old, eh ?

 

[SD51]

I had posted this sign last year, but just wanted to say that this is what we are hoping Corey can help prevent. This sign was posted last year in a park I have been detecting for twenty years. The park maintenance supervisor got tired of finding open holes with a piece of trash sitting next to the hole. I had noticed it for a while and spent most of my detecting time picking up the trash and filling in the holes to no avail...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Laws against metal detecting (in my area at least)- Zero.....

Well, yes and no. Here's where you're entering a slippery slope: Sure maybe there's not a *specific* law (such as dog-poop laws). But someone COULD say that you're falling afoul of verbiage forbidding "alter/deface". Or "harvest/remove". And ...... seriously now .. do you really think you're going to win that debate ? Sure: YOU AND I know we'll leave no trace (hence not falling afoul of alterED defacED laws). But in their mind's eyes, they don't want to baby-sit such semantics, and .... can just invent a rule to solve the issue, if any of us makes themselves a giant bullseye.

So when you suggested pointing out other law violators (to show the contradictory enforcement or disparity), it would be like this: You get pulled over for speeding. And you tell the officer:

"But officer, I just saw someone run a red light, and another car that was going even faster than me!".

All those violations you saw may be perfectly true. But it has no bearing on the immediate subject at hand.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... The discussion hear worries me about the future of our hobby.

Nah, it's like shark attack story psychology. Although 1000's of people swim in the ocean each day w/o incident, yet .... 1 or 2x p/yr. a story trickles in about a shark attack. So guess what everyone fears the next time they go to the beach to swim ? Shark attacks, of course. Even though truth is, they're extremely rare.

So too is it when we read of someone's hassles on the forums: We might tend to get a "sky-is-falling" and "everyone hates" us feeling. But ... so long as certain P's and Q's are followed, it's rare to actually have anything more than an occasional busy-body.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... The park maintenance supervisor got tired of finding open holes with a piece of trash sitting next to the hole. I had noticed it for a while and spent most of my detecting time picking up the trash and filling in the holes to no avail...

That's a bummer SD51. And if the evolution you speak of is true (holes that were obviously a result of md'rs) then that just bites. But be aware that EVEN in the absence of holes that someone sees, the same things can still happen. The mere SIGHT of a man md'ing can conjur up images of holes, EVEN IF NO ONE EVER LEFT HOLES.

In fact, often-time they make a rule, or scram you and will say "because of holes". The md'r mutters under his breath "durned those md'rs that must've left holes". When truth is, that could just be their mental connotation, even if they can't actually ever point to a hole. If your situation was truly holes, then ... that just bites.

 

[releventchair]

That's a bummer SD51. And if the evolution you speak of is true (holes that were obviously a result of md'rs) then that just bites. But be aware that EVEN in the absence of holes that someone sees, the same things can still happen. The mere SIGHT of a man md'ing can conjur up images of holes, EVEN IF NO ONE EVER LEFT HOLES.

In fact, often-time they make a rule, or scram you and will say "because of holes". The md'r mutters under his breath "durned those md'rs that must've left holes". When truth is, that could just be their mental connotation, even if they can't actually ever point to a hole. If your situation was truly holes, then ... that just bites.

Holes a plenty have greeted me at a couple places I hunt. Some so large ,soiled around I passed one site last fall. Already dead .
The park and village workers recognised me and at one time they mayor would stop and chat.
One worker offered to open a gated area.
They watched me make recoveries and replace plugs ,then secure and blend them in.

Some one in at night ,or off times and who comes to mind when sloppy work shows up? And sloppy work certainly does where I hunt.
Took a learner to a park site nearby after demonstrating recoveries on a field site and his doing good work... only to find dead plugs away from holes. Dirt near holes. A quarter a couple inches deeper than one hole had been dug. That is nothing compared to manhole sized sod removal ,replaced off center elsewhere ,with a rusted can under it still.
Found out who ( as suspected believe it or not) at that jumbo big- o kill site.....fixed that .

ETHICS. Will not stop those who do not care for rules ,or heed them.
My ethics will keep me detecting despite the actions of other detectorists ,or non detectorists.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Now add folks sneaking around at night ( most parks here close a dusk)....

Releventchair, you and I both know that we'll leave no trace. And I think we can both agree that sometimes holes is a "go to" excuse to justify a rule they just invented . Even though it was just a knee-jerk reaction of what they think md'rs do, yet actually saw no "holes". And yes, sometimes it could be the TRUE reason.

But even for a moment assuming it's the "true" reason: Then in my mind's eyes ALL THE MORE REASON NOT TO BE SEEN. Because if I am going to get the blame for someone else's holes (that you and I are not to blame for), then why give that any space to occur ? If I can be invisible (and hence off-people's radars) then all the better. If that means going at night (or other such odd-ball hours) so as not to be an eye-sore, ... so be it. If someone wants to call that "sneaking around", fine then: Sneak around. Why swat hornet's nests ?

As for park closing at sunset (in cases where that might be in the minutia) ok: Guilty as charged. I'll share the park with late-night couples on a romantic walk. Someone walking their dog, etc... I'm certain that such verbiage about "sunset" is so that they can reign in late night keg parties, or someone who thinks they're going to camp overnight, etc... I highly doubt it's enforced for anything but cases like those.

 

[13dolphins1]

Releventchair, you and I both know that we'll leave no trace. And I think we can both agree that sometimes holes is a "go to" excuse to justify a rule they just invented . Even though it was just a knee-jerk reaction of what they think md'rs do, yet actually saw no "holes". And yes, sometimes it could be the TRUE reason.

But even for a moment assuming it's the "true" reason: Then in my mind's eyes ALL THE MORE REASON NOT TO BE SEEN. Because if I am going to get the blame for someone else's holes (that you and I are not to blame for), then why give that any space to occur ? If I can be invisible (and hence off-people's radars) then all the better. If that means going at night (or other such odd-ball hours) so as not to be an eye-sore, ... so be it. If someone wants to call that "sneaking around", fine then: Sneak around. Why swat hornet's nests ?

As for park closing at sunset (in cases where that might be in the minutia) ok: Guilty as charged.

I agree....if I go to a park and they are having a little league tourney or a family reunion....I'm pulling out and going to plan B. I leave if it looks really busy. Come back when very little activity is there and no one's the wiser. I do not do curb strip's because most home owners maintain the strip's in front of their home (even though legally I can)....because I know that people will get tired of complaints and next thing you know.....no metal detecting. That's just the way it is

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[dirtdigginfool]

Ten to one he doesn't show up...just some bored a-hole with a stupid agenda. A LOT of great comments here, if a park is busy, crowded...plan B. BTW, please know in my town there is a detecting ban in city parks, but I have been in contact with our newly elected Parks Superintendent and he us actually open to the idea of opening them back up, with certain restrictions. Even our local fairgrounds is off bounds...we can hunt the parking lot but not the midway areas inside the fairgrounds...and there is a memorial sign inside the fairgrounds indicating that there was a Civil War encampment there mid 1800's...I have detected where I can quite hard, and have came up with a bunch of clad, some wheats and one 1908 Barber dime. The friend who hunted there before me, did manage almost 30 silvers in one small area about 50' by 100'. Needless to say, I'm sure there's a ton of silver inside the fairgrounds as it is over 160 years old. Ddf

 

[Xraywolf]

Just for perspective, hunting at night doesn't necessarily imply a sneaky action and wanting to be unseen.

I hunt at night all the time, its much cooler, not many if any people around, and I can easily get in the zone and enjoy myself. You can really focus, your attention is right where the beam is aimed at.
Plus, with my work/family schedule, night is often the only time I can detect.

If I really wanted to be sneaky, last thing I'd do is walk around with a headlamp beam beacon on my head.