Had a run in with park ranger today...

[Tom_in_CA]

little bill, you say:

"There is a very good article about this in the Western&Eastern Treasures magazine. "

What month and year edition was this in? Got a link to the article?

And to expand on your reminder to "check local and state laws", I would add that this does not necessarily mean to ask "can I?" (as some people have interpretted that to mean). In other words, if someone "checks state and local laws", and sees no prohibitions on metal detecting, then that would be enough, right? They would no more need permission then, to metal detect, than they would to fly a frisbee. Because if it's not prohibited, then so be it The reason I say this, is there has been many instances of persons who feel they need permission (despite there being no prohibitions), and even gone to the extent of pushing permission letters under bureaucrats to sign, and ... instead ...... end up with a "no", where there was never any problem before. Ie.: the old "no one cares till you ask" psychology. Thus if someone searches the rules (usually available on-line) and sees no prohibitions at their local parks, then that would be sufficient, right?

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

little bill, you say:

"There is a very good article about this in the Western&Eastern Treasures magazine. "

What month and year edition was this in? Got a link to the article?

And to expand on your reminder to "check local and state laws", I would add that this does not necessarily mean to ask "can I?" (as some people have interpretted that to mean). In other words, if someone "checks state and local laws", and sees no prohibitions on metal detecting, then that would be enough, right? They would no more need permission then, to metal detect, than they would to fly a frisbee. Because if it's not prohibited, then so be it The reason I say this, is there has been many instances of persons who feel they need permission (despite there being no prohibitions), and even gone to the extent of pushing permission letters under bureaucrats to sign, and ... instead ...... end up with a "no", where there was never any problem before. Ie.: the old "no one cares till you ask" psychology. Thus if someone searches the rules (usually available on-line) and sees no prohibitions at their local parks, then that would be sufficient, right?

If there are no signs saying no detecting, I detect, if a park ranger or employee tells me it is against the rules I will ask to see where it is written, if indeed it is there I will politely move on......I practice the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy..........

 

[littlebill31]

September issue, page 23 and another on courtesy on page 24.

My point is, is that we all know that it's a state park. We all read the forum information and all read the stories of state laws regarding metal detecting. We all know that there are laws in place that do not allow md'ing in state parks. The "sticky" thread at the top of the "General Discussion" is about such a subject. It's not a gray area, it's not hidden. We all know that the majority of information on the internet is subject to misinformation as well and should not be trusted as 100% truth. I don't see anything about riding a motorcycle in the state park rules online, but it's illegal. How do I know this? because I did a little research. It's common sense. It's state property. I'm not saying that these laws are fair by any means and I am just as irritated by not being able to hunt as everyone else, but they are laws and getting mad at a ranger, or starting an argument with them, does not help the rest of us. So what, you can't hunt after 9am, 3 months out of the year, but you can hunt anytime for the other 9 months. Better than not at all in my opinion.

And I agree that if it is not written, then it is not a law, but if they do produce the law, in writing, then we have to abide by it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

littlebill, and one more thing I would add, is when someone is seeking to see if there's any prohibitions (which is a way different from asking "can I?" permission type questions), is that they should also look up this information for themselves. Rules are invariably on-line, somewhere, in this techno-age we live in

Because believe it or not, I've heard of people who went to a city hall, or ranger kiosk, or whatever, and CAREFULLY worded their question like this: "are there any rules that prohibit metal detecting?" (as if .... to put the burden back on them, to produce such an actual written rule). And even THAT backfires with the silliest of responses. Stuff like "we would prefer you didn't" (as if the inquirer had been asking "mother may I?"). Or morphing something absolutely silly to apply to their "pressing question" like disturbing sandcrabs, or vandalism clauses, or other such nonsense. And this can happen in places where no one ever cared before. Ie.: no one cared till you asked.

So persons, if they are skittish, should look it up for themselves. If the words "metal detectors/ing" don't come up in a keyword search, well then so be it

 

[littlebill31]

Tom, I totally agree. If it's not law, then it's not law. There are plenty of resources to answer my questions concerning state parks. My main concern with some violators is that they are "knowingly" violating. My question to a ranger is usually, "Can I see/read your policy on metal detecting?". Now they have to produce it. No grey areas. Either they have it or they do not. Black and white, plain and simple. Also, if you do get stopped, you inform the ranger that you stopped at the ranger station and asked. Thus, the blaim is transfered to the "keeper of the book". But I'm not about to argue with a ranger or sneak in to an area, then get banned. I love my parks way too much to do that. I do not want to be labeled as a "ruiner" either.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"Also, if you do get stopped, you inform the ranger that you stopped at the ranger station and asked. "

Or better yet, you inform the ranger that you looked up in the rules (available on-line, or in the brochures handed out at the kiosk, etc...) and saw no prohibitions. Because I know you mean "asking" beforehand is such a way to put the burden of proof on them, to produce such an actual written rule, but again remember: this has often back-fired, where they take a "grey rule" (as you call it), and morph it to apply to the inquirerer's "pressing question". And if you try to debate them and say it doesn't apply, because you won't hurt the earthworms, or harm the flowers, etc.... guess who's going to win that debate? They will! Or worse yet, if you prevail in your logical debate, they can just invent a rule, to "clarify" this for the future. I have actually seen that happen before, where, if you get enough squeeky wheels, PRESTO, a rule to address the question (where perhaps no one ever cared before). So again I say: No "asking". Look it up for oneself.

Yes this doesn't stop busy-bodies in the field from being kill-joys. ANYONE in authority (or just nosy-parkers walking through the park) might take exception, even in the absence of specific rules. Because let's face it: we're in an odd-hobby that draws lookie-lous and the curious. I.e: "ooooh, look at the man with the geiger-counter thingy over there. I wonder what he's finding? I wonder if he'll leave holes or steal the public's treasures?" etc.... Thus a little discretion is in order. Don't go at high traffic times begging for attention

 

[cheryl2010#]

I live in Tennessee and State parks are off limits. Also most of the city parks close to where I live do not allow metal detecting. I even pulled the policy for a recreational area owned by the Corps of Engineers saying metal detecting was allowed at the beach area and other disturbed areas. I thought I could hunt the playground area, the campground, the volleyball court, the picnic shelter areas, boat ramp, etc. BUT THE BIG BAD park ranger said I could hunt the beach area only and I showed him the policy and he said again beach area only NOTHING ELSE. I sent an email to our governor about this situation concerning the policy requirements to metal detect and how upsetting it is to follow the rules and regulations and still not being allowed to metal detect. Of course I never heard anything back from him. I have not been metal detecting long and it has really been hard trying to find places to detect.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

cheryl, well you were right to look up the rules for yourself, and see an actual "allowance" for detecting. Abeit at "... disturbed areas" only. And yes, I too would consider volleyballs courts, picnic areas, etc.... to be "disturbed" But as your outcome shows, even ALLOWANCES are up to the whims of a park employee, who can implement and morph the silliest things to tell someone "no", if they're having a bad day.

But I want to add the following: In my 35+ yrs. of detecting, I've been "ushered on" many many times. But at a whole bunch of them, just like your situation, it's simply whimsical arbitrary on-the-spot interpretation (or a cop responding to a busy-body lookie-lou, so they have to go check you out, etc...). And most of the time, when I just return a year later (or whatever), I never have a problem again.

For example: One time a lady cop came and booted my friend an I from an out-of-town park where we, and others, had detected since "the dawn of time". All she would say is "it's not allowed" blah blah. Well, since we were getting ready to leave anyhow, we just left. Later, I met a hunter from that part of our state, and recounted to him that booting. He simply couldn't believe it, because he too had detected that park, anytime (even in high traffic) and no one had ever said "boo" to him. He was almost about to go "check this out" (ie.: go to city hall and start asking questions), but caught himself, and realized "why should he, if he's never had a problem?" So he and I decided it must have been an "isolated incident". A year or so later, I was travelling through this area, and stopped to hunt again. No problem. That was 15 yrs. ago, and since then, I've hunted there dozens more time, and never heard a peep.

 

[NativeTexanMd]

Again, I'm not trying to be an a$$, and think we should be allowed to use our parks to hunt, but we still have to follow the rules. We have a park here that is totally closed to md'ing because some people went after dark, knowing it was not allowed, and ruined it for everyone. We can't even fish on the beaches here at night because of people trashing the areas after dark.
Another example is that you are not allowed to crab at night in Maryland. Yes, crabbing, because people were stealing crab pots. So DNR closed crabbing at night. People keep skirting the laws and doing illegal things and the state will keep closing parks, seasons, ect.

Well, I guess you're right.. we laws are probably the best solution for all that is bad or wrong with the world.. In fact, during the storms around the 1st of July several trees fell .. instantly killing a few people. Dang trees, killing people! I move that we outlaw trees .. or strictly regulate the ownership of trees.. they can only exist on tree reservations. WE MUST ACT NOW.. lest more people get injured or die from these falling trees!!

 

[treasurehound]

Most state parks and all National parks are off limits that I know of. Here in Tennessee the parks are not posted as far as no hunting but there is a law if you search for it. Too many other places to hunt. The TVA used to give out permits to hunt on TVA land but they put a stop to that as well. Best advice I would give anyone is to stay off those parks. Its not worth the headaches it could bring. I see your thoughts on no signs being posted. But a state park is a state park and most do not allow metal detectors that I know of. There may be some states that allow it but I don't think there are too many.

 

[Rawhide]

Honestly people, from what I see, the guy could of handled the situation much better. Also, middle of the day detecting, your just asking for it. I detect before most of you get a shower. The way some of you act on here is embarrassing. I also have other areas I can detect during the day with no lookie lous to spoil it. There is always gonna be some one who doesnt want to see you get ahead. Be the adult, say thank you. Maybe ask if there is another way. But, "I got a lawyer", lol. As we continue to over populate the planet, get used to these laws that choke the livin crap out of us. Its a sign of the times. Neuter your children lol........I encounter many rangers and caretakers, and they are always friendly and share information. This post sounds like a troll.

 

[MrSchulz]

We can't touch state parks out here in Iowa.

 

[leprechaun]

there's no MD hunting in state parks in mass either.

 

[Gold Maven]

If it's not posted I get an early start, and make sure I go out of my way to get a pouch full of trash. It really helps your case, when you can show a pouch full of rusty nails, fish hooks, broken glass, cans etc. cleaned from "their" beach.

They soften up when they see the junk you've removed, and no sign of any digging. GL.

 

[mjc_lakedweller]

I love it! So you are good to hunt before 9am and before labor day. As you describe it above, tomorrow could technically/legally be construde as before labor day as it does not state "within the same year". Hunt the place all day, I'll be rooting for ya

 

[whiteriver23]

So, you want a sign that tells you what you can/cannot do?
I've been a seasonal federal ranger for the past 14 yrs. and
hear this kind of question nearly everyday, "where does it say
I CAN'T do this/that? Let me explain something, if a municipality,
state or the federal govt. has to post signs for everything that
people should be able to answer themselves with some simple
research, there would be no open spaces on this planet because
all the open areas would be cluttered with signs. Picture this,
a sign stating "please use the restrooms provided", "please
pick up your litter", "please keep your gas cans away from
open flames", "please don't use glass containers on the beach".
I appreciate this is simplistic but, until the public starts taking
some responsibility for their actions, we're all going to be in
for more restrictions that none of us want from an enforcement
and compliance point of view.

JP

I was at a Maryland lake called Greenbrier Lake. Well the lifeguard comes over and says you can metal detect on the beach, I said "why" he said.. " I dont know why that's what I heard" I said show me the signs. He said let me get the park ranger. So Ranger Rick comes over tells me (I am in the sand part near the water) that I must stop immediately. I said why he said because of code xyz.. I said where is it posted? He said everywhere I said show me ONE sign. Ofcourse he couldn't.. so then I was not backing down and said then show me where its in black and white because I dont see it posted. So then he goes to his car, gets out some old azz book and then points to some code where it says no metal detecting in state parks from 9am to dusk before Labor Day. Ofcourse the sentence under it said " up to the descrision of the park ranger" After that he kept saying he wasn't going to give me a ticket. He must have said that part like five times and I just wanted to scream" I have an attorney on retainer at all times with pre paid legal so give me the dag on ticket already!!" Its like he was waiting for me to thank his sorry behind for not ticketing me!!! OK sorry to rant. Today was the day my Sand Shark arrived and I was looking forward to using it. However... with all that said I WILL be at the lake BEFORE 9am as he pointed out! I'll let you know what happens tommorow!!!!

 

[Grizzly13]

I had read on there somewhere that there are no good places to hunt any longer ! Are you serious ! I personally knock on doors and I have about 8 different farm houses that I hunt, they range between the 1700's and late 1800's. I have had only one refusal and that was because another fellow ruined that by pulling his car off into the fellows yard and unloaded a bicyle to ride it thru his fields after the neighbor that had already kicked him out for dump hunting his property without permission. Sometimes I ask the people if they need a hand with something on their place. I just asked a old fella the otherday if he had anything that he wanted done, he said that the high weeds around his pond really bothered him and he couldnt do it any longer so I spent 6 hours on a sunday weedwacking and did it in one day. He siad that he didnt know how he could ever pay me and I said all I needed was to detect it! He was so happy that I do not even need to let him know that I'm there , to go anytime I want to. Dont be afraid to give a little and you shall recieve. And I have met alot of really nice people along the way so far. As for the parks it might be possible to set something up for a day of clean up in exchainge for privilages after all its up to their discretion? Sometimes the happy faces ae just as rewarding as the finds !

 

[tokameel]

Welcome to TreasureNet Grizzly13! I like the offer to do jobs like weedwacking cuz he's happy and it makes for easier detecting. Everybodys happy! "Dont be afraid to give a little and you shall recieve."

In a small Burg near me, I asked a Cop if I can MD in the park. He said no, but checked anyway. Rule said "No metal detecting and digging in the park." He showed me the printoff & said "I see a loophole, the AND DIGGING part. So go on & scan for surface stuff, just no holes. That was half of what I wanted anyway because lots of folks were there yesterday for a concert. So ask if you can scan and not dig, if you like.