Greek coin - cant id, need help

[BIG61AL]

Greek coin - can't id, need help

Found this in an antique mall for a buck. I knew it was real old the second I saw and they did not know what they had. 26mm across, 2.5 mm thick Copper or bronze. Don't have exact weight...as heavy as a us half dollar. I am guessing the letters are Greek but i can only confirm a few. Has a lovely light green patina on the deeper parts of the surface...I've tried to look this up in the library and on the net but they always focus on silver coins and portrait coins. I get the impression this a more common coin used for in country circulation as opposed to internation trading. I don't think this goes as far back to the classical period but my personal best guess is ...1000 AD to 1500 AD. My challenge to all of you....confirm or deny.

 

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[BIG61AL]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

other side

 

[Gunner]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

More recent than 1500 AD imo. I'd call it Modern.

Gunner

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

Big 61AL

If it is a coin, it appears to be patterned after the coins from the Second Revolt (132-135 AD). Shim'on Bar Koseba, or just Bar Kochba, the name of the leader of the revolt is also part of the name collectors call this coin.

Unlike the situation at the start of the First Revolt, in Bar Kochba's time there was no Temple and no Temple Treasury. So, in order to mint their own coins as a sign of sovereignty, they gathered all of the bronze and silver foreign (Rome, Syria, Phoenicia, etc.) coins circulating in Judaea. Then they filed off the original designs and restamped them with Jewish symbols and Hebrew inscriptions relating to their hope of rebuilding the Temple.

More specifically, "Bar Kochba, Silver Sela" 133/134 CE (Brom. 94) is what this coin appears to be.
Scroll on the source mentioned below for more details.

The overstruck silver tetradrachm (called "sela" in the Mishnah) is among the most religiously significant coins issued by the ancient Jews, since the Holy of Holies of the Jerusalem Temple is depicted, along with the Ark - that had held the two tablets of the Ten Commandments in Solomon's time. "Jerusalem" was inscribed around the Temple. Beginning in the second year of the Revolt and continuing into the final year, a star (as it appears on your 'coin') appeared above the Temple, likely alluding to Bar Kochba's nickname "Son of the Star."
Don........
(Source: http://www.amuseum.org/book/page19.html)

 

[BIG61AL]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

I am shocked by the ability of treasurenet members to offer precise and accurate info across a wide range of subjects and interests. The results I have received using this forum and others within tresasurenet is astounding. This web site is "THE" premiere metal detecting web site!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

Hello Big 61al,
I don't want to disappoint you but your coin is likely a modern replica of one of the Bar Kochba revolt coins mentioned above. The genuine coins are rarely round, being imperfectly round because they were hand-struck. Because they were in the middle of a war of rebellion, often they were struck on foreign coins, so show slight impressions of what they were originally struck as, Roman or Greek etc. I would not assume that it is fake just from a photo, and would recommend that you take it to an expert on ancient coins and get an expert opinion. An important factor in determining genuine ancient coins is the weight, the fakes rarely have the weight right so that would tell a lot to an expert.

There have been finds of this type of coin in Kentucky which resulted in a lot of hoopla and speculation, until they were found to be modern imitations. Either way, it is a really neat find to pick up for a buck!
Oroblanco

"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca

 

[Radzyn]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

That coin isn't perfectly round...

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

I don't know of anyone on this list (or elsewhere) who can determine if the IMAGE of a coin is really represents the image of a real, fake or a replica-- without testing the object.

Fakes exist (usually) to cheat other. Replicas, created within the provisions of the Hobby Act are manufactured to educate and entertain--and make a legit return (monetary or otherwise) to the manufacturer and all the others in the supply chain.

My 'spin' is to mention what the object MIGHT be; and to describe it with enough detail to possibly encourage the finder to seek the opinion of a professional in determining the object's validity.

Like others, I enjoy the research challenge and the reward of knowledge--then sharing it. Finding something would be iciing on the cake; and I extend "kudos" to those who actually participate in the hunt, discover and share these objects on this and 'sister' (T. net, of course) sites.
Don.....

 

[BIG61AL]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

Obviously this coin needs further study....in addition to weight, roundness and signs of prior strikes what else should I look into?

 

[PBK]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

Oroblanco alluded to the discovery of these coins in Kentucky. The following link might be of interest:

http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/barkokhb.htm

 

[Gunner]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

I'd be in absolute shock if that coin turned out to be authentic (Ancient). Some fakes, such as this one, are so obvious that a picture is enough to determine authenticity. Good luck...

Gunner

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

Hello again,
thanks to PBK for the link on the coins found in Kentuck, and a comparison of the photo of the known fake to this example is helpful.

known fake obverse, note six pointed star which is a definite no-no on the genuine article

known fake reverse.

As you can see the fakes are not perfectly round either, and are even struck a bit off-center, which was almost certainly done with a view to fool a buyer into thinking it was genuine. Anyway I will not go so far as some to say that it positively IS a fake, based solely on a photo - but based on the photos I would have to say it shows close affiliations to the known fakes. Even if a fake it is a neat find, and not too common! If I had picked it up the way you did for a buck, I would take it to an expert on ancient coins (Judaean coins if possible) and get an expert opinion. The genuine coins with this type of design were usually (as far as I know, and I am no expert in Judaean coins) made of silver, not copper or bronze - here is one recently sold online"
http://www.gilai.com/scripts/more/co558-coins_barkochba-Coins:+Bar+Kochba-yes.html

I still think it a neat find, and worth better than a buck!
Oroblanco

 

[BIG61AL]

Re: Greek coin - can't id, need help

I have come to conclusion presented here that the coin in question is indeed a 20th century replica. Thank you all for helping to get a definitive answer.
AL