Grand Canyon: In search of historical nformation on crossing

[Randy Bradford]

Just curious if anyone knew, or knew of some good books to follow up with, regarding the crossing of the Grand Canyon. What I'm most intersted is in the istory of the crossing: Primarily the first recorded crossing(s) and where it would have been most commonly crossed in the historical record. I'm sure some books have been ritten on this subject, so any book referals are appreciated as well. Jsut trying to get a geenral sense of where the Native Americans in the region and ultimately the Spanish would have most frequently made the crossing on the northward move.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[Springfield]

I think the only place upstream of the Grand Canyon was at a place now under water at Lake Powell, where the Escalate expedition crossed in the late 1700's. Downstream from the Canyon, the mouth of the Virgin River and other points south were used.

Here's a publication with some info: Geological Survey professional paper - Geological Survey (U.S.), Geological Survey (U.S.). Geographic Names Information Management - Google Books , page 10.

 

[cactusjumper]

Just curious if anyone knew, or knew of some good books to follow up with, regarding the crossing of the Grand Canyon. What I'm most intersted is in the istory of the crossing: Primarily the first recorded crossing(s) and where it would have been most commonly crossed in the historical record. I'm sure some books have been ritten on this subject, so any book referals are appreciated as well. Jsut trying to get a geenral sense of where the Native Americans in the region and ultimately the Spanish would have most frequently made the crossing on the northward move.

Hi Randy,

Hope all is well with you.

I believe Bright Angel Trail is the only viable trail to cross the Grand Canyon. I may have a book or two at home. Will let you know if I have anything.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

Hi Randy,

Hope all is well with you.

I believe Bright Angel Trail is the only viable trail to cross the Grand Canyon. I may have a book or two at home. Will let you know if I have anything.

Good luck,

Joe

I think Natives may have used part of that trail route south of the river, and it was developed somewhat as a mine access route in the late 1800's by Anglos. Then it was improved primarily as a tourist trail in in the twentieth century. Of course, a bridge was constructed to cross the river. The Spanish wanted nothing to do with the Canyon. Neither did the fur trappers.

 

[AbTexEx]

Okay


AJones

 

[Randy Bradford]

Thanks for the feedback everyone...not being in that area it's hard to surmise much although, not surprisingly, the spots you point out as crossings are not spots unfamiliar to my research. that's a satisfying discovery indeed.

 

[doc-d]

While not the first crossings, old newspaper accounts would be useful…...

 

[Not Peralta]

Randy Bradford, I have hiked the canyon twice in my lifetime both about 90 day trips, I believe what Springfield is saying is correct, the best way is from south to north,but at different times there are several different crossing sites. its a great hike for energetic persons, a lot to see and explore, np

 

[doc-d]

The Grand Canyon is a spot that needs to be explored……..there was around the turn of the century a find of Egyptian type artifacts and giant skeletons……
I have limited knowledge of the area but would guess the fed tyrants would restrict we, the people, from searching what is our land.
Certainly this is an awesome topic to explore……..vaya con Dios

 

[Seabees]

I was reading this post to see if any one would bring up any Egyptain finds/artifacts that were discovered in the G.C.

 

[gollum]

[h=2]Arizona Gazette, April 5, 1909[/h]

EXPLORATIONS IN GRAND CANYON

Mysteries of Immense High
Cavern Being Brought
to Light

JORDAN IS ENTHUSED

Remarkable Finds Indicate
Ancient People Migrated
From Orient
​

The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.

According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archeologists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came, will be solved. Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist.

A Thorough Examination
Under the direction of Prof. S. A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be continued until the last link in the chain is forged. Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes of a wheel.

Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored for 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds include articles which have never been known as native to this country, and doubtless they had their origin in the orient. War weapons, copper instruments, sharp-edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty persons.

Mr. Kinkaid's Report
Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque.

"First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass. The scientists wish to work unmolested, without fear of archeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters.

A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on his way. The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado river in a boat, alone, looking for mineral. Some forty-two miles up the river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty.

Above a shelf which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth of the cave. There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in. During that trip I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the explorations were undertaken.

The Passages
"The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six inches in thickness.

The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a center. The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle from the main hall, but toward the rear they gradually reach a right angle in direction.

The Shrine
"Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving this cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet.

Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical, probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the god squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all descriptions, made of copper. These people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemicals for centuries without result. On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore.

"Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain seeds of various kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached. These granaries are rounded, as the materials of which they are constructed, I think, is a very hard cement. A gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It resembles platinum. Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call 'cats eyes,' a yellow stone of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type.

The Hieroglyphics
"On all the urns, or walls over doorways , and tablets of stone which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics, the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. The engraving on the tables probably has something to do with the religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in southern Arizona. Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of prehistoric type.

The Crypt
"The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a bark fabric.

The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here. This leads to the belief that this exterior section was the warriors' barracks.

"Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found, no skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here. What these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in the summer.

Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousands of years before the Christian era, a people lived here which reached a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of gaps. Professor Jordan is much enthused over the discoveries and believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in archeological work.

"One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same. The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space."

An Indian Legend
In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of two hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn.

They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is the tradition.

Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by W.E. Rollins, the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians.

There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in the upper Nile region. Heeren,* an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.

 

[doc-d]

And yes, the Smithsonian again………seems like countless treasures and artifacts have been hidden away there……
Anything that would threaten history as it has been written, will not be tolerated……..

 

[Not Peralta]

please show me the proof any proof, before buying into this Egyptian discoveries thing , the grand canyon is not a place to play around in, and you do not want to send people there on a fools errand,
on a wild goose chase, think twice before believing these stories without absolute proof. np:cat insist on proof,

 

[Sharecropper]

Here's something interesting -

The Location of Kincaid's 'Cave' Revealed

 

[Not Peralta]

Here's something interesting -

The Location of Kincaid's 'Cave' Revealed

yes its interesting,but still not proof, np

 

[Not Peralta]

Randy, until you are in the grand canyon on foot you have no idea how massive that place is, it actually takes a long time to go over the entire area in a plane or helicopter ,np

 

[Springfield]

Here's something interesting -

The Location of Kincaid's 'Cave' Revealed

Jack Andrews is probably the highest profile investigator of the Kincaid story. Even Andrew's extensive research failed to verify the identities of any of the people mentioned by name in the newspaper article - an unusual failure, given the times. Andrews locates the cave in Marble Canyon, below the Navajo Reservation. No one has confirmed this since his revelation 10 or 15 years ago.

Hoax? The Monday, April 5 article closely followed April Fools Day late the preceding week. No byline. No follow up. No other newspapers seemingly interested in the story. Pretty strange vacuum for the greatest archaeological find in North America.

That said, anyone who has ventured into the Canyon well off the Bright Angel Trail knows that there could well be any number of places where such a discovery could be waiting. I wonder if the Hopis read this article and commented?

 

[Randy Bradford]

Jack Andrews is probably the highest profile investigator of the Kincaid story. Even Andrew's extensive research failed to verify the identities of any of the people mentioned by name in the newspaper article - an unusual failure, given the times. Andrews locates the cave in Marble Canyon, below the Navajo Reservation. No one has confirmed this since his revelation 10 or 15 years ago.

Hoax? The Monday, April 5 article closely followed April Fools Day late the preceding week. No byline. No follow up. No other newspapers seemingly interested in the story. Pretty strange vacuum for the greatest archaeological find in North America.

That said, anyone who has ventured into the Canyon well off the Bright Angel Trail knows that there could well be any number of places where such a discovery could be waiting. I wonder if the Hopis read this article and commented?

Springfield, fantastic insight as always. One thing I think people overlook too, is how much differently newspapers operated in that time period than they do today. Communities were still very insulated, news from a region easily stayed within that region. Yellow journalism still passed as "news of the day," with the insular nature of communities etending to prevent fake news from beign uncovered. This is the same time period that air ships were being reported over Texas. Fact checking was not at the forfront of most minds. Essentially people could print most anything they wanted to provided they had a willing printing press to carry it out. Maybe I'm cynical, but I think this is a historical aspect that cannot be udnerstated.

Keep in mind though, the Kincaid story isn't the only one about a lost city in the Grand Canyon. That I think is intersting as well. Marble Canyon also hold s a unique position where the "water glyph" is concerned and could be an important clue in uncovering whatever IS in that area.

 

[Springfield]

Here's some YouTube stuff primarily featuring the sensationalist writer Childress. No meat.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=grand+canyon+egyptian