Gorgeous Colorado Agate Beaver lake

[mogi]

I really love this piece. Colorful Colorado Agate Beaver Lake with heavy patina and minerals. Absolutely gorgeous in hand and under the scope. Happy Holidays everyone!

 

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[kcm]

Regardless of whether it's authentic or not, I haven't a clue!! (!!) I openly admit that I know WAY less about NA artifacts than I should. ...I think I've held maybe 2 arrowheads in my life, and I think one belongs to my wife. Now, with that said, the piece is absolutely beautiful!! It really would be a treasure if it were in my stocking tomorrow morning. And I, personally, wouldn't care whether it was authentic or not. I could say the same thing about several of Mogi's pieces.

Now, if he were out there trying to market them as authentic when they aren't, that "does" throw a great big monkey wrench into things. But for now it appears these items are NFS and are simply part of a collection.

Now let me try this:
From the other point of view, this new guy comes to the forum and from the get-go starts posting truly unbelievable pieces that, if authentic, would definitely be museum quality!! However, if they "aren't" authentic, then they can and will de-value other authentic pieces if on the open market. So, if this guy isn't selling them, could there be some other reason he is posting? ...Maybe to throw it out there as a reference that could later be cited, such as: 'Here, look - this piece is even listed on the world-famous Treasurenet. It MUST be authentic!'




I agree that it would be much easier to authenticate a coin over NA artifacts, as coins have very certain aspects that must be adhered to. NA artifacts, as far as I know (and I DON'T know!) don't. I'm not going to take sides on this - this is for you guys to hash out! But in "my" humble opinion, maybe it would be better if Mogi refrained from posting more of his collection, at least for a while. I don't like this as I have enjoyed seeing those items very much, but not at the risk of turmoil that has resulted. I really wish I knew more, as being stuck in the middle really sucks, and I'm TOTALLY against telling someone "not" to post. ....I made a comment to Jeff_in_PA earlier (in a PM) that you couldn't pay me enough to be a Mod here, and this is why!!

I will now go and crawl back into my dark, little hole.

 

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[The Grim Reaper]

Done with this. Not worth it

 

[mogi]

Did you get that and your others from your buddy here? That would explain a lot.

Ancient Indian Arrowheads-Native Indian Artifacts-Relics-Tools

Ok. Here ya go. Everyone - The person Grim Reaper is referring to is a 70 year old gentleman from Ohio. He is a God fearing man that has more years of hunting and study experience than all of you. He also studied,hunted and was taught by Greg Perino himself. Greg in his younger years was considered by all to be the best. PERIOD! - Well except for the armchair authenticaters on this site. This old gentleman has seen and handled more artifacts from every corner of this country than all of you. He has never been anything but kind to me and i have never heard him speak unkindly of anyone. I have used his services and deeply respect his opinion and believe me - he has killed points that i really wish would have passed. He told me from the very start that he was a Christian and could never give approval of any piece because of his belief in our Lord and Savior. That is much more than i can say of many others in his profession. Now, with that being said - he is not the only person i use. I have used 4 now. I get opinions from multiple sources. I have ALL of my pieces C.O.A'd. It doesn't matter if they are personal finds or purchases. I do this for insurance purposes. Now as far as purchases - I am a collector. Do i have a lot of personal finds? You gosh darn right i do! Many,many of them posted on this site. Not one one of them was approved by your SO CALLED EXPERTS. I purchase pieces from 1 source only. He has had 25 points pictured in the Overstreet Book. He is in very poor health and he has given me much,much more than i have purchased because of his believe in Our Lord - He too believes in the fact that it is better to give than receive. This man is the best friend that i have and has had in excess of 60,000 artifacts at one time. He has no ties whatsoever to the older gentlemen that i was speaking of earlier. So you see - You are not only slandering a gentleman in his seventies(Who Does Authenticate For A Living), but a man who's father was an archaeologist(With 25 points In Overstreet), and myself who has an absolutely incredible collection to share with you. So, it would seem that you are calling all of us liars, all the collectors who i associate with liars,authenticators that i use liars! Please ask yourself - Wow, i guess im calling probably 300 or more people liars simply because the things he is showing is not just field grade stuff. I have worked very hard at my collection and really do not need you or this site for approval. Why would i do that? Why would i even defend myself? You need to take a step back and ask yourself after looking at every post that i have made. Look at each artifact and say - Ok, all of this guy's stuff is fake or this guy has MUSEUM QUALITY Artifacts and is trying to make friends and share. Also, how do you find Museum Quality Fake pieces. The answer is You Don't!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Done with this. Not worth it.

 

[mogi]

I know exactly who he is and know several he has ripped off with all of his fake crap. God fearing or not, I wouldn't touch even one piece of anything with his name on it. I actually saw him and his son stand beside someone at an auction that didn't really know artifact well and convince them to but thousands of dollars worth of BS artifacts.

You should have authenticated them yourself. Oh thats right, you can just look at something from several feet away and determine that. By the way, what does that have to do with my stuff. It did not come from him?

 

[quito]

I have seen many incredible authentic artifacts in collections from all across the country owned by well known collectors. High Quality collections are not uncommon we all know it.

Seems the biggest problem some people have with Mogi's artifacts is a particular authenticator or 2. and the fact that they don't know him.

There ain't anyone here that can know the provenance of these pieces let alone say with any amount of certainty the artifacts he is posting are not authentic unless they made the darn thing themselves. I think everyone should just back off a bit and enjoy the artifacts shown and friendships that have been made here.

I'd like to see more of this collection myself, so please keep posting Mogi. Nobody is gonna be forced to look at your stuff.

Joel

 

[The Grim Reaper]

No quito, the biggest problem that I and quite a few others have is a person posts outlandish artifacts and then refuses to give any documentation or information about any of them. His 11 inch Dove is typical of one the most highly faked artifacts in our collecting world, with Clovis and Birdstones right along beside them. Then he talks about his buddy from Franklin Furnace who is one of the most highly questionable authenticators in the market. His reputation in my area alone is so bad he is not even allowed at local shows anymore. I will stay off his posts from now on and you all want to ooh and aah over them the so be it. I know better. God fearing or not, I saw his treachery from himself and his son first hand so I trust nothing even associated with him.

 

[Nwohseeker]

Well, as I said the other day in this post the material on that dove is bnot a typical lythic found in wood county which I would consider strike one. Your stories don't seem to add up mogi. I have been on the j and dee site before but was unaware of his standing in the artifact community. I have a couple questions for you mogi... If the dove pictured is now in your "private" collection why is it advertised for sale on the j and dee site still? Are you just here schilling for them? Trying to build provenance or what. Don't get me wrong the pieces you post are some great "eye candy" but your defensive nature to me seems like an unnatural reaction unless you are trying to deceive. Keep posting the eye candy but done expect too many of us to take you seriously.

 

[quito]

Hmmm. I Didn't see everything that was posted, but I saw he did say he had 4 others opinions quite often as well. I have had differences with good authenticators and one bad one over the years, but hey even the bad ones do get something's right.

He he is either building a nice collection or he isn't. I just think he, Mogi, deserves better than he is getting. After all it could be another Bwb type.

 

[kcm]

"j and dee site"?? Sorry, I haven't a clue what this is. ...And unfortunately, won't have data time to check it out until after New Years.

 

[Buckleberry]

I disagree quito, from the moment he joined the board he has done everything possible to arouse suspicion, posting pictures of G-10s with exactly ZERO initial info...completely ignoring legitimate questions, posting more G-1O, thousand dollar artifacts that were "gifted" to him and made from rare materials and or weird areas of origin, posting cropped pics of authenticator certificates, this

the dove pictured is now in your "private" collection why is it advertised for sale on the j and dee site still?

and then getting hostile to more legitimate questions and then the literally holier-than-thou attitude as if the"word of god" hasn't been used to scam more people than anything in history, the most decent and religious people I've ever met don't tell you how holy they are, they're actions speak for them, not this braggadocio.
There are red flags on top of red flags on top of red flags, but hey if you want to see more I could care less. I just hope I don't see you on any of those geofact threads with any skepticism because "There ain't anyone here that can know the provenance of these pieces let alone say with any amount of certainty the artifacts he is posting are not authentic unless they made the darn thing themselves."
By that logic I could post a picture of a Gumby figure and claim it's a NA artifact.
I'll leave you artifake worshippers to your hero, I'm done with this foolishness.

 

[monsterrack]

I have never dealt with this J&D Artifact co. but from what I see on their site is that they authenticate and sell high ends artifacts. On the high end artifacts they only give you a 14 day money back policy which in the collecting world is a big red flag and anyone knows you can not get a second opinion in just less than 14 days.

 

[Triumph]

The way I see it is all post of item's here are suspect except for the one's I pull out of the ground. LOL. I would never borrow or add to my collection things that I bought or were gifted and post them anywhere. The reason I post is everything is from a single site. So you will see pottery, points, bone all from the same hole i'm digging. It is my gift to others that cannot do what I do or do not have a site that produces like what I have. I don't have a single g10 in the 1 1/2 I've been digging. So I share from more of an educational standpoint and others here may help me understand the Native culture better. So when someone post 6 g10 points with no background or other things found at the site it is off no value to me at all. I view it as that's nice but so what. It's like looking a picture of a nice car but not being able to drive it on the track. I used to race SCCA with cars I built but I did not always win but my effort paid off with the enjoyment of getting there. Digging is a good time with my family not bragging rights of what we found. So Moji I have no problem with you posting anything but most of us want to learn something not just look at a g10. That is why you are getting so much push back. Post what you have found with context and you will never have any issues with these site's. If not, everyone of your post will be suspect, COA or not that is just how it is.

 

[quito]

I disagree quito, from the moment he joined the board he has done everything possible to arouse suspicion, posting pictures of G-10s with exactly ZERO initial info...completely ignoring legitimate questions, p
osting more G-1O, thousand dollar artifacts that were "gifted" to him and made from rare materials and or weird areas of origin, posting cropped pics of authenticator certificates, this and then getting hostile to more legitimate questions and then the literally holier-than-thou attitude as if the"word of god" hasn't been used to scam more people than anything in history, the most decent and religious people I've ever met don't tell you how holy they are, they're actions speak for them, not this braggadocio.
There are red flags on top of red flags on top of red flags, but hey if you want to see more I could care less. I just hope I don't see you on any of those geofact threads with any skepticism because "There ain't anyone here that can know the provenance of these pieces let alone say with any amount of certainty the artifacts he is posting are not authentic unless they made the darn thing themselves."
By that logic I could post a picture of a Gumby figure and claim it's a NA artifact.
I'll leave you artifake worshippers to your hero, I'm done with this foolishness.

woah buckleberry, you must have been taken a few times huh? sorry your undies got all bundled up because I put out what was on my mind. I don't know why would you make things up like Mogi being my hero? But I'll be more carefull what I post next time since you like to make things up.

now you wanna tell us who here knows the provenance of these pieces and if they are really authentic from what has been shown you know, arm chair authenticate? or just keep making silly comments and bashing Christians?

Sheesh and its Christmas!

 

[Buckleberry]

Meh, only ever bought one point in a small thrift store collection when I first started that was a fake, didn't bother me one bit and saw it as an education, I no longer buy so I'm personally not worried.
But hey everyone look at this Clovis Paleo Effigy that was gifted to me, it's from East Dakota and made of Green Dragon Coprolite.

ps) No Christian bashing,but about those that bear false witness...you need to read and comprehend,not engage in hyperbolesheet.

 

[Jeff H]

Buckleberry, you misidentified your point. That is a double fluted bifurcated barbed Gumbian. Certainly the most authentic artifact I've seen associated with this post and its related posts. Amen.

 

[quito]

Yawn!
I thought we were tired of foolishness.

 

[mogi]

I must say Mogi’s Clovis point is beautiful, perhaps even nicer than the one J&D was selling.
Both pieces exhibit nice color patterns.

Hey everyone - I just got in town less than 5 minutes ago and WOW!! Before i start,i would like to thank everyone that has messaged me with kind words and comments. They are deeply appreciated. Thanks also to quito who has not assumed,accussed or slandered me,but who has been someone exactly the opposite. Thank you sir! Now with that said - I really don't need to explain my artifacts or their source or their provenience or their shape or the indian who made them or any of that to anyone! Like i said before - I am a collector. I hunt,i buy,i trade. I am no different than any other collector with a VERY HIGH END COLLECTION. Everything i have posted is real and at this point - I could care less if you believe me or not! I have posted many of my personal finds and you say fake,wrong provenience,wrong shape,wrong color,blah,blah,blah! So really, because i am not in your click and have much,much better toys - You don't want to play! Well here is your story and then maybe you will start trying to be kinder and considerate of others. I have never seen Mr. John Royster. I have never shook his hand. I am not a family member or an old acquaintance. I unlike someone on this site that obviously thinks he knows everything there is to know about everything have heard some very,very good things about his expertise in a field that he has been in for 50 yrs. And B.T.W. - He Does It For A living! Here is your kicker - This man who has never even seen me face to face, but only speaking with me on the phone and e-mail sent me $20,000 of unbelievable artifacts to study. The reason? Because he noticed in me Honesty,Integrity,Kindness and a passion for a hobby that he has almost had to completely give up due to health reasons. This man will talk to me for hours on end and answer questions,supply tips,information and just talk about life. I have even asked him why he would take time out of his life and supply me with valuable answers that any collector would pay money for. His answer - Morgan, you cant take it with you when you go and i want to share what i know with you because i consider you a friend. Once again, think about this and if you will read my post at the start of this thread it is going to say exactly what i just wrote. It said that the point was sent to me by an older gentleman from Ohio for study purposes. Also keep in mind, the pieces that he sent me were from HIS OWN PERSONAL FINDS! He wants me to have these and said any of them that i liked to just keep and we would figure the money out some other time. He has offered me these for almost nothing. once again - Why? I will tell you why - Because i am honest and i am kind. I help people. I go out of my way to be the best representation of a man that i can be and that is not getting on websites and telling a bunch of lies. One more question that i want to answer is why did i not show all of the partial C.O,A'S. Your answer is just a few comments above. I did not want anyone to slander and disrespect someone that i hold in high regard and that is exactly what happened. Moral to the story - Even if you are the HeavyWeight Champ - There is an ole boy on the street that can kick your ...! When you think your the best - Your Not! When you think you have the best arrowhead collection - You Dont! When you think you know it all - You Don't!