Golden Artifact

[Tesorodeoro]

Sorry for the clickbait title.

I’m not aware of any NA artifacts in my area (west coast) that were made of gold.
This is despite the fact that it was likely plentiful in certain areas.

It seems to me that NA Indians relied completely on natural items. They were very in tune with the different characteristics and properties of various materials.

Gold is unique in that it keeps its attractive color over time.
It’s much heavier than anything else readily found.
It’s very malleable and can be pounded out very thin.
It can be melted.
It can be easily drilled.

It easily stands out against other common minerals.

I suspect they must have had a negative underworld superstition that surrounded gold (having nothing to do with foreign contact). It’s not that they didn’t notice it or didn’t realize these properties.

Any ideas? I would have thought it would at least be used for decoration or traded.

 

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[BillA]

.......

nose ring has been what it's called the most by others. it's been difficult to find anything to compare it to though. if the finds from the stratum of soil it came from equates to the age it was made/in use, i'm not sure there is definitive fashion guide to the styles of that time.

archies may not be our friends, but they can answer those questions

 

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[southfork]

seems right, looked and looked and did not see it
but that is a good lead: did the locals from then wear nose rings?
(recovered from a defined setting, any material ok)

They were used as a rite of passage by some tribes I found one like it on another forum . I was just trying to help

 

[BillA]

sorry, I see no example with info
words mean little as chit chat, names locations dates are of value

 

[southfork]

sorry, I see no example with info
words mean little as chit chat, names locations dates are of value

I can see them on my end sorry I won't waste your time .

 

[Tesorodeoro]

not quite what we are talking about, but interesting non the less....NW coast metal

https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/metallurgy-of-the-tlingit-dene-and-eskimo/

https://warriorpublications.wordpre...s-and-daggers-of-the-pacific-northwest-coast/

Only got part way through the first link. Very interesting. I especially liked this paragraph...

“Northern men today greet strangers with a handshake, but they have heard of older conventions. Formerly, they say, strangers extended their left hands while holding their knives in their right. In 1824, the British explorer Captain G. F. Lyons sailed into Hudson Bay and made the first recorded European contact with the isolated Eskimo of Southampton Island. They came to greet him holding a gift in one hand, a stone-bladed knife in the other. This ambiguous convention of introduction seems to have formerly been universal. Some Eskimo followed this with a formal duel at boxing, wrestling, arm wrestling, or even knife fighting between champions. These social conventions must have been erected upon a long history of culture contact over vast regions among many diverse peoples. Trade goods and knowledge of technological processes traveled great distances through such contact.”

You would instantly be ranked as a honorable warrior or the opposite. That greeting must have formed a powerful bond between strangers very quickly. Imagine today’s world..where would most people rank?

I wonder how women sized each other up? I’m making the assumption these greeting traditions were limited to men.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Moses, I recall when you first shared that artifact. There was some talk that it could be formed by some rare meteor material.

So the discussion has been interesting...copper, iron, lead, silver, turquoise.....but no gold.
That’s what has me wondering...why did they not utilize gold? Especially in areas where is was relatively easily obtained or traded for?

They picked up “charms” and buried them around the camp...why not gold specimens or nuggets?

 

[BillA]

stone age culture, unknown technology

edit: it is interesting to observe the change in values with the arrival of metal working technology
where jade/greenstones were the burial offerings, with metal working there was a shift to gold

 

[Tesorodeoro]

stone age culture, unknown technology

But what kind of technology does it take to smash a pretty stone flat and punch a hole in it? Doesn’t have to be smelted or have ANY special treatment. We know they were not that primitive.

I really think it must have been ancient superstition or perhaps out of respect or to avoid disrespect...I don’t know. But I would have thought this would have been studied before on the west coast and other places.

They did have interesting superstitions...such as if you looked into someone’s house while they were not home...even through an open door or window.... a creature would come out of the shadows and pay you a visit...you would be struck by a rattlesnake..it might be a year later, but whatever bad that happened to you would be blamed on you looking inside someone else’s house. Very interesting stuff that I’ve read.

I’ve read the charm-stones had to be buried away from the house or covered in some manner, even if you carried it daily. It was not to be brought into the house or visible to others.

 

[BillA]

we like to view them as noble savages, but they were primitives

an example of poor schooling: as a child in Calif the only local Indians mentioned were the Digger Indians who lived naked in holes in the ground and ate acorns
I know the Diggers did exist in the midst of the gold fields, but I think one gets clothing before ornaments

 

[BillA]

I can see them on my end sorry I won't waste your time .

the pics did not show, sorry for the tacky comment
Bill

 

[Tesorodeoro]

we like to view them as noble savages, but they were primitives

an example of poor schooling: as a child in Calif the only local Indians mentioned were the Digger Indians who lived naked in holes in the ground and ate acorns
I know the Diggers did exist in the midst of the gold fields, but I think one gets clothing before ornaments

Do you suppose it would be very plausible to survive the winter in the mountains without clothing?

I’ve seen some modern sketches and photos of some poor looking people that were labeled “diggers”.
I’m not sure that is representative of the majority of the NA cultures.

 

[MosesOfTheSouth]

archies may not be our friends, but they can answer those questions

i'd really like to find someone in my area to show it too. try to have an analysis of the metal done.

which leads into

Moses, I recall when you first shared that artifact. There was some talk that it could be formed by some rare meteor material.

So the discussion has been interesting...copper, iron, lead, silver, turquoise.....but no gold.
That’s what has me wondering...why did they not utilize gold? Especially in areas where is was relatively easily obtained or traded for?

They picked up “charms” and buried them around the camp...why not gold specimens or nuggets?

it's exact metallurgy is still unknown. only that it is non-ferrous, doesn't have the patina that something largely lead, brass, or copper would demonstrate. it's also quite heavy. if made from a rare meteor, that takes it into another realm all together. what a can of beans that would be. it could have precious metals in it.

But what kind of technology does it take to smash a pretty stone flat and punch a hole in it? Doesn’t have to be smelted or have ANY special treatment. We know they were not that primitive.

I really think it must have been ancient superstition or perhaps out of respect or to avoid disrespect...I don’t know. But I would have thought this would have been studied before on the west coast and other places.

They did have interesting superstitions...such as if you looked into someone’s house while they were not home...even through an open door or window.... a creature would come out of the shadows and pay you a visit...you would be struck by a rattlesnake..it might be a year later, but whatever bad that happened to you would be blamed on you looking inside someone else’s house. Very interesting stuff that I’ve read.

I’ve read the charm-stones had to be buried away from the house or covered in some manner, even if you carried it daily. It was not to be brought into the house or visible to others.

of the hard-stone finds i've personally made, and some flint/chert finds for that matter show real workmanship, thought out tool design, and a huge amount of time invested in some. the rest of your post is interesting although speculative.

what time period you are looking at? was that area inhabited in conjunction with the fist size nuggets exposed, and gleaming in the bedrock as placer gold? did that water way even exist then?

was there a raw vein exposed on the surface (could you imagine finding a quartz point with a vein of gold through it)?

was there a glacier covering it all?

are you referring to more modern times when the puzzle pieces paint a slightly clearer image?

there's a line in the sand from when other outside sources influenced the NA inhabitants, and the time before that.

 

[T.C.]

sorry, I see no example with info
words mean little as chit chat, names locations dates are of value

Ya might try doing some research yourself. The Modoc Wars, "Ishi, Last of the Yahi and other books. The NA was very intelligent and religious as well.
Capn' Jack of the Modocs wanted his own reservation, apart from the Klamaths. He said the white settlers could continue to farm and ranch in Langell Valley but, they had to pay him rent. Now that's a businessman! A little off topic but, you get the point.

 

[BillA]

Ya might try doing some research yourself. The Modoc Wars, "Ishi, Last of the Yahi and other books. The NA was very intelligent and religious as well.
Capn' Jack of the Modocs wanted his own reservation, apart from the Klamaths. He said the white settlers could continue to farm and ranch in Langell Valley but, they had to pay him rent. Now that's a businessman! A little off topic but, you get the point.

TC, the artifact is not mine nor is research performed, this is a casual discussion
I subsequently apologized as his pics did not display.

Modern Indians have little relationship to those living many thousands of years ago, not a valid example of other than adaptation.

btw, people lived in holes in the ground to keep warm w/o clothing, and central CA is pretty benign

 

[Tesorodeoro]

TC, the artifact is not mine nor is research performed, this is a casual discussion
I subsequently apologized as his pics did not display.

Modern Indians have little relationship to those living many thousands of years ago, not a valid example of other than adaptation.

btw, people lived in holes in the ground to keep warm w/o clothing, and central CA is pretty benign

Bill, I think you should do a little investigating. I say that with all due respect. I agree Central California is pretty tame as far as weather goes (now), and I’m sure the inhabitants only wore as much clothing as was necessary. These people migrated from Siberia and followed the perimeter of the glacial belts to Southern California. I’m pretty sure clothing was a technology they figured out pretty early in time. Not full body clothing like we are accustomed to today, but necessary clothing for survival and comfort.

Those Southern California Indians you learned about in school probably lived in “holes” primarily to stay cool not warm.

I don’t know what they looked like thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, but the sketches and photographs from the late contact period show a people with much adornment. Beads, bones, feathers, paint, talons, claws, teeth, etc. of course those were likely important people in their best attire. I’m not sure how much different their ancestors were or if we even have any reason to suspect they were much different.

 

[BillA]

agreed, clothing or not is related to the climate

my question seems still outstanding, were nose rings worn by the locals?
not sure a piercing is the same as a ring held by friction, way outa my knowledge

 

[Tesorodeoro]

i'd really like to find someone in my area to show it too. try to have an analysis of the metal done.

which leads into



it's exact metallurgy is still unknown. only that it is non-ferrous, doesn't have the patina that something largely lead, brass, or copper would demonstrate. it's also quite heavy. if made from a rare meteor, that takes it into another realm all together. what a can of beans that would be. it could have precious metals in it.



of the hard-stone finds i've personally made, and some flint/chert finds for that matter show real workmanship, thought out tool design, and a huge amount of time invested in some. the rest of your post is interesting although speculative.

what time period you are looking at? was that area inhabited in conjunction with the fist size nuggets exposed, and gleaming in the bedrock as placer gold? did that water way even exist then?

was there a raw vein exposed on the surface (could you imagine finding a quartz point with a vein of gold through it)?

was there a glacier covering it all?

are you referring to more modern times when the puzzle pieces paint a slightly clearer image?

there's a line in the sand from when other outside sources influenced the NA inhabitants, and the time before that.

You have some valid points regarding climate change, glaciers, change with time, etc.
The Sierra Nevada mountain range was covered in glaciers during the late Pleistocene period.
Northern California was not. I suspect the rivers have been flowing since forever.

The superstitions I mentioned were read about in a book written in the early 1900’s by several ladies that lived with an Indian tribe in a very remote area. So late contact period..but it gives us the only glimpse we can have.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

agreed, clothing or not is related to the climate

my question seems still outstanding, were nose rings worn by the locals?
not sure a piercing is the same as a ring held by friction, way outa my knowledge

There were just about as many tribal territory’s in California as there are now counties.
There were shared societal traditions and some similarities in language, but each tribe had its own unique brand.

I found this interesting...




Some things never change.

The tribes in the Bay Area had a large influence, yet the northern coast was broken up into many small tribal areas.

I’m sure the tribal areas changed back and forth near aggressive tribes.
Currently in Northern California the Karuk tribe is slowly but consistently attempting to absorb the ancestral territory of the Shasta Indians due to the fact that the Shasta Indians were not federally a recognized tribe. They even were able to build a casino in the heart of the Shasta territory. It’s all about having the governments ear. It is easy to see how much larger the Shasta territory was compared to the river Indians.

Guess my long side track discussion is that it’s very plausible that a particular tribe might utilize a friction nose ring while the other a face tattoo. Sooo many tribes in North America.

 

[SoIll]

There is a Hopewell copper gorget with inlaid gold in the Peabody museum. I tried to find it but they've changed that site and images of artifacts aren't readily available like they once were.

 

[SoIll]

Actually I think I found it's somewhere in here

https://pmem.unix.fas.harvard.edu:8...ate:flow=6f37cacb-db9b-45dd-902f-3a6139a64ca8