Gold machines vs regular machines

[Blkcloud]

I noticed folks that specifically target nuggets, use strange looking machines.. lol .. would a normal detector like a etrac or at pro not find nuggets? What is the reason for the special machines??

 

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[Jim in Idaho]

Typically, gold nugget machines operate at higher frequencies.
Jim

 

[Asmbandits]

All machines will find larger gold, its the smaller gold targets that the gold specific machines are built to be sensitive to.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Gold Nugget machines come in two flavors: High Single Frequency 17kHz - 80kHz; and Pulse Induction. High frequencies can see small, sub-grain targets that coin machines and multi-frequency machines cannot. They are ALL METAL machines, and Do Not Discriminate.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Some of the newer machines offer discrimination, Terry. 'Nox; Gm24K, maybe others.
Jim

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

The Makro Gold Racer, and Kruzer discriminate.

Even the Fisher Gold Bug...discriminates in a sense...Iron ID mode..is useful in many situations.
I think the Fisher Gold Bug Pro has discrimination.

Probably not as good as a dedicated coin machine, but yes they have discrimination.

That’s one of the big reasons I like to use the Gold Racer over the Gold Bug 2

 

[Goldwasher]

Some of the newer machines offer discrimination, Terry. 'Nox; Gm24K, maybe others.
Jim

They mask gold because of it too

 

[Jim in Idaho]

They mask gold because of it too

That's why I said "offer". Serious people don't use it much.
Jim

 

[Lanny in AB]

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is the ability of gold machines to operate in highly mineralized ground that many coin/multi-purpose machines aren't specifically designed for.

A pulse machine, by its very nature, ignores extreme mineralization, and the specialized coils made for them for gold detecting, will do, as Terry says, to find tiny gold.

As I understand it, and I'm no expert, coin machines are specialized (computer software) to find larger targets with a cpu that doesn't rely heavily on the ability to detect in hot or extreme ground, and they have a lot more software dedication for discrimination (which means something always gets filtered out).

Hope this helps, and all the best,

Lanny

P.S. perhaps Terry was referencing pulse machines when he talked about the "no discrimination" as the discriminating abilities to date on pulse machines is quite rudimentary, or he may have meant all metal mode is the only way to go when you're chasing gold?

 

[leadnugget]

a regular detector could/should pick up a 1 gram nugget,
but every year there is less detectable size gold,
due to more nugget hunters, using far more advanced gold machines.
so if you are working a patch or wash with a multipurpose machine
you are already at a disadvantage.

if you are detecting for gold, i would not use any discrimination.

i have seen one or two videos of the minelab
gold monster id reading iron and it was small gold.

back in 1989 there was a guy that found a big nugget, using
a radio shack detector. google {the boot of cortez} 389 Troy Ounces.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

a regular detector could/should pick up a 1 gram nugget,
but every year there is less detectable size gold,
due to more nugget hunters, using far more advanced gold machines.
so if you are working a patch or wash with a multipurpose machine
you are already at a disadvantage.

if you are detecting for gold, i would not use any discrimination.

i have seen one or two videos of the minelab
gold monster id reading iron and it was small gold.

back in 1989 there was a guy that found a big nugget, using
a radio shack detector. google {the boot of cortez} 389 Troy Ounces.

Yup...if it's big enough, you don't need much of a detector...LOL
Jim

 

[Lanny in AB]

a regular detector could/should pick up a 1 gram nugget,
but every year there is less detectable size gold,
due to more nugget hunters, using far more advanced gold machines.
so if you are working a patch or wash with a multipurpose machine
you are already at a disadvantage.

if you are detecting for gold, i would not use any discrimination.

i have seen one or two videos of the minelab
gold monster id reading iron and it was small gold.

back in 1989 there was a guy that found a big nugget, using
a radio shack detector. google {the boot of cortez} 389 Troy Ounces.

I've experienced what you're talking about, and I've also had ironstone throw off the digital display on the Gold Bug Pro, when the gold is sitting right next to/on top of/underneath of the ironstone. So, readouts are only a guide, and if you're in a good bedrock location, why not dig up everything to be sure?

When there's a high trash area though, that's when some type of discrimination can save your mind. I've detected bedrock that was littered with so many bits of steel from machinery, I thought I'd go nuts from all of the signals, but a discrimination ability in those situations is a real bonus, as is a super-magnet on a wand. The super-magnet will attract and get rid of a lot of steel signals, though not all, especially if there's clay tight on the bedrock.

To confess, sometimes I use discrimination when gold hunting, but the situation has to be exceptional. Otherwise, best to dig all of the signals.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

With the GB2, I typically use the Iron ID mode on EVERY target several times regardless if I’m in “dig everything” mode or trying to cherry pick. Gotta be smart about not relying on it.

I’m usually pretty serious about it when I’m mining.
Each person has their own methods. I try and stick with what results in the most gold within the available time I have, given the type of ground.

Sometimes it’s trying to pick nuggets out of excavated material prior to washing.
It’s not fool proof, but pretty easy to pass up pieces of bucket or track by using discrimination. On the surface, it’s a broken signal, where as gold is typically solid and repeatable. An old square nail will start out sounding good...then get worse as it nears the surface. Gold is typically the opposite. Ya...I like having discrimination on a gold machine.

 

[Goldwasher]

I can take my GB2 Put it in disc.

Hold a nail in my hand with a 7 gram nugget.

Wave my hand under the coil.

Get no target response.

For years many considered the GB2 as the best gold detector. Some still do.

But you are missing A LOT of gold. Especially if you rely on discrimination.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Yes relying on discrimination and using discrimination are two different things.

No doubt there is gold being passed up in the deeper "second layer", but in several areas, I have followed up with three different PI machines of the big coil variety and was never blown away with all the gold I was missing (unfortunately). That’s not to say I couldn’t pick up a deep piece that I didn’t hear with the small GB coil..that’s an obvious certainty. It’s also a possibility that the latest several minelab detectors are just that much better than their older counterparts.

I miss millions of dollars in gold routinely. It's a hard concept to accept, but you get used to it after awhile.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

It is a good topic to ponder on all weekend.

I have done this in the past, but I decided to revisit the square nail/nugget test.

I didn’t weigh the nugget, but I suspect it was around 6.5 grams.

Using the Fisher GB 2...smallest elliptical coil...with Iron ID mode on (kind of discrimination).
I set a square nail down on the ground —> no signal
Set nugget next to nail —> bright clear signal
Set nail over nugget —> no signal
Set nugget in middle of a pile of nails —> no signal

So yes, nails over and near gold nuggets can mask the signal when using discrimination.
Good reason for digging every signal in certain situations, even if you are using discrimination to predict targets.

For grins, I did the same test using the Makro Gold Racer (round 5” coil). While it did pick up the nugget when it was placed near the nail, it was nowhere as clear and loud as the signal returned by the GB2. The GB 2 won hands down. I suspect this was just due to the elliptical vs. round coil. I think the GB2 was picking up the nugget only because there were two distinct targets.

I really thought the gold racer would have done better on this test. I may have to order their elliptical coil.

 

[Goldwasher]

It is a good topic to ponder on all weekend.

I have done this in the past, but I decided to revisit the square nail/nugget test.

I didn’t weigh the nugget, but I suspect it was around 6.5 grams.

Using the Fisher GB 2...smallest elliptical coil...with Iron ID mode on (kind of discrimination).
I set a square nail down on the ground –> no signal
Set nugget next to nail –> bright clear signal
Set nail over nugget –> no signal
Set nugget in middle of a pile of nails –> no signal

So yes, nails over and near gold nuggets can mask the signal when using discrimination.
Good reason for digging every signal in certain situations, even if you are using discrimination to predict targets.

For grins, I did the same test using the Makro Gold Racer (round 5” coil). While it did pick up the nugget when it was placed near the nail, it was nowhere as clear and loud as the signal returned by the GB2. The GB 2 won hands down. I suspect this was just due to the elliptical vs. round coil. I think the GB2 was picking up the nugget only because there were two distinct targets.

I really thought the gold racer would have done better on this test. I may have to order their elliptical coil.

Well, most of the gold I get detecting is from very iron rich ground. My field experience with the GB2 is that it really kills the depth in all metal mode. And is severly affected in Iron Disc mode

I also found that with the GMT you can make it give an iron grunt pretty easily on a ferrous/good target with repeated coil sweeps. In that type of soil.

So, yea of course dig every target.

After running an SDC for a while now I see the gold vlfs as fancy relic detectors that will pick up small targets In shallow mild conditions. In hot trashy ground you will find some good pickers shallow as you go target by target. Still pretty usable on bedrock, hardrock and tailings waste rock piles. In situ elluvail and alluvial placer. I won't even use one for that anymore.Especially dry creekbeds.

I also find hundreds of small wires and canslaw with the sdc that the vlfs would never have responded to.

I don't use a detector to see how small of a target I can find though I use the one that produces the post in the most conditions with good depth and coverage.

VLFs are way down that list for me now.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Well, most of the gold I get detecting is from very iron rich ground. My field experience with the GB2 is that it really kills the depth in all metal mode. And is severly affected in Iron Disc mode

I also found that with the GMT you can make it give an iron grunt pretty easily on a ferrous/good target with repeated coil sweeps. In that type of soil.

So, yea of course dig every target.

After running an SDC for a while now I see the gold vlfs as fancy relic detectors that will pick up small targets In shallow mild conditions. In hot trashy ground you will find some good pickers shallow as you go target by target. Still pretty usable on bedrock, hardrock and tailings waste rock piles. In situ elluvail and alluvial placer. I won't even use one for that anymore.Especially dry creekbeds.

I also find hundreds of small wires and canslaw with the sdc that the vlfs would never have responded to.

I don't use a detector to see how small of a target I can find though I use the one that produces the post in the most conditions with good depth and coverage.

VLFs are way down that list for me now.

NO doubt the PI machines are a nice addition.

I’ve followed behind with my dads Garrett ATX mine sweeper and it ABSOLUTELY DOES ESPECIALLY LOVE the tiny pieces of wire brush and smallest pieces of iron. They are not shallow either. Also likes the deep nails and cans that are out of reach of the small GB coils.

Just never has been a magic bullet hitting ground hammered by our GB2 detectors. Neither was the SD 2100, nor the GP Extreme. I wish they were. I guess most of our gold is shallow and in mild red clay ground. Dunno.
Much easier to just excavate new dirt to detect.

Love to have the latest and greatest minelab for sure.
Bet I’d be finding more gold.

 

[Yukon99669]

I never gave this aspect to prospecting very much consideration. It helps when there is intelligent discussion. Time to re-consider...