GOLD COINS

[Tiredman]

Go down to Wisconsin on this site, metal detecting banned on DNR lands, 4 page topic posted here in November 2009.

 

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[Tiredman]

Here is your link, we can move on! http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/wisconsin/114711-metal-detecting-banned-wisconsin-dnr-lands-4.html#post6008693
I noticed one post claim 99% of the state waters.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... for WI and every other state I am aware of.

Megalodon: then why is it that we have metal detecting hobbyist forums, that all have Beach venue specific Pages ? Where water & shoreline md'rs have their show and tell bragging rights every day of the week?

Our forums are FILLED with show until from Beach Hunters. How can this be?? Are they all Lawless miscreants ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...The DNR has a listed phone number call it.....

Oh sure. Let's go running to "seek clarification ", and " get the matter answered once and for all". And... gee ... who better to ask than the bureaucracy people themselves ? And when we put this FAQ on their desks, let's be sure to Pepper it with words like : artifact, Relic, Indian bone, take/remove/disturb, holes, dig, and treasure.

This would seem like the fastest way to get it to be nothing but a self-fulfilling vicious Loop. And it is indeed the way I think a lot of these supposed laws and rules get started in the first place. We make our own selves a giant Bullseye, and go swatting hornet's nest, for places and locations that nobody cares less.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tired-man, let's just put it this way : I have no doubt that if somebody sat down and looked, long enough and hard enough : Yes, He could probably find language and minutiae in every single public entity's wording that... could be construed to prohibit our activity. On both land and water. Even for the most mundane tame sandboxes.

While I am not saying to throw caution to the wind, I think that some laws are sort of like spitting on sidewalks laws. Sure, use common sense and avoid obvious historic Monument spots, and archaeologists conventions. But beyond that, I have no doubt there are plenty of people hunting beaches (creeks, rivers, lakes) in Wisconsin.

 

[Megalodon]

Megalodon: then why is it that we have metal detecting hobbyist forums, that all have Beach venue specific Pages ? Where water & shoreline md'rs have their show and tell bragging rights every day of the week?

Our forums are FILLED with show until from Beach Hunters. How can this be?? Are they all Lawless miscreants ?

You misrepresent what i said. I also hunt beaches but respect the law that forbids me from hunting a few beaches that are specifically closed to metal detecting. Congratulations for misrepresenting what I said and for misrepresenting the issue in general - you are now blocked.

 

[Tiredman]

One learns more by listening

 

[cudamark]

You misrepresent what i said. I also hunt beaches but respect the law that forbids me from hunting a few beaches that are specifically closed to metal detecting. Congratulations for misrepresenting what I said and for misrepresenting the issue in general - you are now blocked.

I don't believe Tom is trying to mislead or misrepresent anything here. IMO, he's trying to point out that unless a law specifically bans detecting a certain area, assume there isn't a law against it instead of assuming one exists and applies to us. There are lots of laws out there that are vague and can be applied to detecting if some anal retentive government official wants to, but, most of those laws were passed before metal detecting came into being, rather, they were meant for other activities and were stretched (sometimes unfairly or unreasonably) to encompass our hobby. I know that reading the minutia of these laws is the cure for insomnia, but, the devil is in the details. You need to read the wording carefully and check the definitions of everything, to be sure the law applies to what you are doing. Frankly, when I find the law vague, I assume it's in my favor, not against me......at least until I'm threatened with jail!

 

[Junkironkid]

America’s toilet is in serious need of flushing.

 

[cyberdan]

If you find any coins or valuables at all don't forget to claim them on taxes so you can be legal....then they would be yours....

It is my understanding you only have to pay taxes when you sell it. But keep good records on your expenses it may offset the profit.

 

[agflit]

I had the unfortunate need to actually search for specific lost property in WI state waters...and spoke DIRECTLY...with the states head archie...( shudders). To summerize...yes...you CAN metal detect WI state waters....

PROVIDED........................


You submit a specific itemization plan of object being sought...to include EXACT location of lost item. Now...as I pointed out to our intrepid politico..if it's EXACT location was known...than it wouldn't be lost right?
You can only search between specific daylight hours within a specific season, and must provide location maps and proof that the area you wish to look are not within "Archeologically sensitive location"...and provide the state with proof thereof....

Oh...and DNR has authority over ALL state "navigable waters". I repeat...ALL


After you have submitted this plethara of state mandated paperwork...and it won't...you must schedule with the local DNR superintendant a time that a conservation officer can be present to oversee your activitys.

Needless to say...entering WI state waters with a metal detector is just not legally possible in reality.

Anyone want to guess what I told the Sheriff when they couldn't find a very important evidentiary object and and asked me to search?

Welcome to Wisconsin..where if it's fun..it's illegal.


And Tom..I'm not going to debate the symantics or theoreticals ....my experiance is simply my experiance...

Remember that "legislative intent"...has nothing to do with enforcement in the real world.

Ag

 

[Tom_in_CA]

......and spoke DIRECTLY...with the states head archie...( shudders).....

I agree with "shudders". Since, let's be honest : WHAT WOULD SOMEONE EXPECT, when talking to a purist archie about md'ing ? They hate md'rs after all. So anything they say will be filled with dire sounding bologna.

That would be a little like asking a P.E.T.A. rep. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) if it's ok to leave your pet bunny in the car while you run into 7-11 to get a soda. The Animal Rights wacko advocate would shudder, scream, and screech: "NNnneeooo". And then tell you how the bunny will suffer. And read you the list of rules on how many degrees the car is allowed to be. And then give you stern warnings about tickets, jail, etc... for "animal cruelty" laws. Heck, they might even be able to cite you chapter and verse of scary sounding Animal cruelty laws to back up what they are saying !

But seriously now: Did anyone else except the P.E.T.A. person care less ? Of course not. So too do I put little stock into what some purist archies say.

....Remember that "legislative intent"...has nothing to do with enforcement in the real world....

Correct. Some things are a bit like jay-walking or spitting on sidewalks type laws. Sure you can find wackos who might make big fusses , thus, sure: Don't spit in their holy water. Ie.: don't waltz through archie conventions, traipsing over their beach blankets. But .... as I've said: There's no shortage of water MD'rs in WI, who are NOT going through all the hoops that you speak of. And they'd be hardpressed to find anyone to care less. Unless they were being a nuisance at some obvious historic sensitive monument.

 

[cudamark]

I had the unfortunate need to actually search for specific lost property in WI state waters...and spoke DIRECTLY...with the states head archie...( shudders). To summerize...yes...you CAN metal detect WI state waters....

PROVIDED........................


You submit a specific itemization plan of object being sought...to include EXACT location of lost item. Now...as I pointed out to our intrepid politico..if it's EXACT location was known...than it wouldn't be lost right?
You can only search between specific daylight hours within a specific season, and must provide location maps and proof that the area you wish to look are not within "Archeologically sensitive location"...and provide the state with proof thereof....

Oh...and DNR has authority over ALL state "navigable waters". I repeat...ALL


After you have submitted this plethara of state mandated paperwork...and it won't...you must schedule with the local DNR superintendant a time that a conservation officer can be present to oversee your activitys.

Needless to say...entering WI state waters with a metal detector is just not legally possible in reality.

Anyone want to guess what I told the Sheriff when they couldn't find a very important evidentiary object and and asked me to search?

Welcome to Wisconsin..where if it's fun..it's illegal.


And Tom..I'm not going to debate the symantics or theoreticals ....my experiance is simply my experiance...

Remember that "legislative intent"...has nothing to do with enforcement in the real world.

Ag

Now you need to go find out what their definition of "navigable" is........

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Now you need to go find out what their definition of "navigable" is........

Sure. And keep asking long enough, and high enough up the chain, till you finally find someone to tell you "No md'ing". Haha

 

[Toecutter]

best to call the authorities right away....1 877-coin-patrol

 

[cudamark]

Sure. And keep asking long enough, and high enough up the chain, till you finally find someone to tell you "No md'ing". Haha

I never (and never would) said to ask someone the definition. It should be defined in the text of the law somewhere. Look it up.

 

[Oddjob]

Nice, another misleading thread title, I thought I was going to get to see some gold coins.

That like a thread called Big Gold Nugget in the prospecting forum, click on it, six pages later nothing but bickering.

 

[Tiredman]

Nice, another misleading thread title, I thought I was going to get to see some gold coins.

That like a thread called Big Gold Nugget in the prospecting forum, click on it, six pages later nothing but bickering.

Local experts!

 

[Tiredman]

I posted the official rules in legal issues, my friend found the letter from the DNR.
Kenny W Briggs‎

to

American Digger Magazine
November 26, 2012 · Chippewa Falls, WI

Response back from the State of Wisconsin Archaeologist.

by Three Seasons Treasure Hunters LLC on Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 9:44pm ·
.

Subjectmetal detector use - your recent inquirySenderDudzik, Mark J - DNR [email protected] DateFri 07:38To protect your privacy, remote images are blocked in this message. Display images Always show images from [email protected]. Briggs - I have included for your information (below) a recent response written on behalf of Secretary Stepp regarding this matter. I hope that you find the information useful. M
Mark J. Dudzik Departmental Archaeologist
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Bureau of Facilities & Lands 101 South Webster, LF/6 Madison, WI 53707-7921
phone: 608.266.3462; fax: 608.267.2750 e-mail: [email protected] website: http://dnr.wi.gov facebook: www.facebook.com/widnr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thank you for writing to DNR Secretary Cathy Stepp about metal detector use on and in DNR lands and waters. I
appreciate the opportunity to respond on behalf of Cathy.

As you know, Wisconsin has an especially rich historic and archaeological heritage. Archaeological resources are
non-renewable and are held in public trust for all Wisconsin citizens. Our state has both recorded and unrecorded
archaeological sites, which may be located in or near beach areas on lakes and streams. The DNR is one of the
state and federal agencies that helps identify, protect, and manage these resources.

I understand your concern that while you previously used metal detectors in state parks, you have been told in the
past few years that metal detector use isn't allowed. We've had a policy limiting metal detector use on public land
for many decades, although in the past this policy was not well-understood and was inconsistently enforced.
In 2009, the Wisconsin Historical Society raised concerns that the DNR metal detector policy did not adequately
protect potential archaeological sites. We revised our metal detector policy so it complied with state law and
federal mandates. The revised policy gave improved protection to the many recorded and unrecorded
archaeological resources, including sacred Native American burial grounds, which are located on DNR properties.
I appreciate that you wish to continue using metal detectors, and I would encourage you to pursue opportunities
for metal detector prospecting on Wisconsin's privately-held lands and waters - areas where metal detector use is
not constrained by state, federal, or other laws or rules.

If you have questions or would like more information, please feel free to call our department archaeologist, Mark
Dudzik at 608.266.3462 or email him at [email protected]. Again, thank you for your interest in this
matter.

 

[Raider19962]

I don't like rules much. Especially the ones I don't like.


This has got to be one of my favorite quotes of all time. You just moved into Mark Twain territory, my friend!