FREE LRL?

[Dave Rishar]

I'm not sure its aloud for me to give you the exact name of the device. But it was a device that combined an LRL (frequency generator) and L-rods with a ground penetrating radar. The way it worked is he set the frequency generator to the desired frequency then put it on the ground and waited for a few minutes. Then walked around the FG in a circle holding the L-rods. When they cross, you have found a signal line going from the FG to the buried item. After finding the same signal lines I had found with the free phone app (+ one item that was estimated to be about 80 ft deep that I had not located using the phone app) we then confirmed the targets using the ground penetrating radar. The LRL was set to the gold frequency and the radar produced a 3D image of something with seemingly right degree angles and was color coded as being a very dense object. Of course we don't know for sure what the target actually is until we dig it up. I was just pointing out that the thirteen thousand dollar technology produced the same result as the free phone app (and my mental dowsing) minus the deeper item. So indeed the free phone app is worth a download for anyone trying to locate treasure up to 50 feet deep.

Very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, why did you hire him?

As for the product in question, naming a product (and allowing us to Google it) shouldn't unduly anger the mods. People discuss products around here all the time. Direct linking is frowned upon though.

 

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[gudfruit7]

Very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, why did you hire him?

As for the product in question, naming a product (and allowing us to Google it) shouldn't unduly anger the mods. People discuss products around here all the time. Direct linking is frowned upon though.

I hired him because I am brand new to dowsing and hadnt developed any real confidence in my abilities yet. Even though the phone app seemingly confirmed my targets, still there was this nagging question "is this all in my mind?". As many of you probably know, digging can be hard work. Then when you start getting deeper than 6 ft and/or hit the water table you end up having to make other investments to keep going. Ive been on this hunt for a few years now. Ive spent thousands of dollars (not to mention the time) on failed operations based on what turned out to be false positive detections. Ive learned the need for multiple confirmations of your target and if possible using different types of detection technology. Also, it has become abuntantly clear to me that there must be very few people on earth that you can trust when it comes to treasure. So I have decided to dig this up alone, adding the need for additional target confirmation just to keep me motivated through all that physical labor.

The guy I hired purchased the device at a shop in Italy. Search "Tora Tora Shop", select English at the top and on the left side you'll see a product called "Hurricane Blue Radar Geoscanner". GL

 

[Dave Rishar]

I hired him because I am brand new to dowsing and hadnt developed any real confidence in my abilities yet. Even though the phone app seemingly confirmed my targets, still there was this nagging question "is this all in my mind?". As many of you probably know, digging can be hard work. Then when you start getting deeper than 6 ft and/or hit the water table you end up having to make other investments to keep going. Ive been on this hunt for a few years now. Ive spent thousands of dollars (not to mention the time) on failed operations based on what turned out to be false positive detections. Ive learned the need for multiple confirmations of your target and if possible using different types of detection technology. Also, it has become abuntantly clear to me that there must be very few people on earth that you can trust when it comes to treasure. So I have decided to dig this up alone, adding the need for additional target confirmation just to keep me motivated through all that physical labor.

The guy I hired purchased the device at a shop in Italy. Search "Tora Tora Shop", select English at the top and on the left side you'll see a product called "Hurricane Blue Radar Geoscanner". GL

Also very interesting.

You seem very confident that such a machine can locate deep objects, but you didn't seem quite so sure that such targets could be located with just a cell phone and rods. Given that you were using the latter, how were you sure that those targets were there?

 

[Carl-NC]

Gud, I took a look at Tora-Tora, and they sell a whole bunch of junk. That Hurricane gizmo you seem to think highly of ain't "ground penetrating radar," not by a long shot. Most likely a cheap fluxgate magnetometer, no capability to locate gold and probably not much of anything else. They think so poorly of their own product that they include dowsing rods with it. That's always a dead give-away that the thing is useless.

On the bright side, your question "is this all in my mind?" has a quick and succinct answer: A-yup. But a good education costs a lot of money, and it looks to me that you haven't spent enough yet to call it good. Keep going. When you hit $50,000 let us know.

 

[Dell Winders]

Gud, I took a look at Tora-Tora, and they sell a whole bunch of junk. That Hurricane gizmo you seem to think highly of ain't "ground penetrating radar," not by a long shot. Most likely a cheap fluxgate magnetometer, no capability to locate gold and probably not much of anything else. They think so poorly of their own product that they include dowsing rods with it. That's always a dead give-away that the thing is useless.

On the bright side, your question "is this all in my mind?" has a quick and succinct answer: A-yup. But a good education costs a lot of money, and it looks to me that you haven't spent enough yet to call it good. Keep going. When you hit $50,000 let us know.

Carl, I object to your insults. Dell

 

[gudfruit7]

Gud, I took a look at Tora-Tora, and they sell a whole bunch of junk. That Hurricane gizmo you seem to think highly of ain't "ground penetrating radar," not by a long shot. Most likely a cheap fluxgate magnetometer, no capability to locate gold and probably not much of anything else. They think so poorly of their own product that they include dowsing rods with it. That's always a dead give-away that the thing is useless.

On the bright side, your question "is this all in my mind?" has a quick and succinct answer: A-yup. But a good education costs a lot of money, and it looks to me that you haven't spent enough yet to call it good. Keep going. When you hit $50,000 let us know.

Tora tora has some questionable products but they also have a lot of products that have been used by countless individuals to make recoveries. The Nokta Goldenking was used recently to find a hidden treasure cache at one of those Mayan temples in Mexico for example. They're also selling products from OKM and Garrett. These are reputable brands. So its not like they're a scam site. You're missing the reason for the dowsing rods, if you can even call them that in this case. The L-rods work together with the FG to locate targets within a 2000 meter radius of the FG. The idea is to then go do a grid scan on the target location with the magnetometer (you're right, its not GPR) to see if you can get an image of anything that looks man-made. What are the odds that this guy comes out and finds my very same signal lines and targets, without prior knowledge of them, if from the beginning it was all in my mind? Don't even bother doing the math. You can just say its simply impossible. Here's the thing, the guy I hired... I know he's made recoveries using that device. They're not perfect by any means but LRLs can actually work.

 

[gudfruit7]

Also very interesting.

You seem very confident that such a machine can locate deep objects, but you didn't seem quite so sure that such targets could be located with just a cell phone and rods. Given that you were using the latter, how were you sure that those targets were there?

It was the consistency of the L-rods that cemented my belief that it was actually possible. Over the course of several weeks I dowsed the same targets. Eventually I realized that the rods were crossing on the perimeter of the object, so I made an outline of the buried objects by approaching them from different directions, paying close attention to exactly where they began to cross and then I marked that spot. After marking cross points from every direction I connected the dots. To my surprise, the objects were in the form of a rectangle. All measuring the same size. So it was the consistency of the L-rods through so many tests that told me that this couldn't be simply a pigment of my imagination. I've been treasure hunting here in the Philippines for several years now. I know beyond any doubt that there's treasure here from WW2. You'll hear a lot of people trying to dispute that but trust me, its real. Knowing that also made me sure it was possible I had good targets.

 

[gudfruit7]

One thing I wanted to make clear... I'm not actually recommending that anyone order the Hurricane Blue device. I've had field experience with many devices now and I'm still far from an expert, but I would say the Hurricane Blue is overpriced. The LRL feature works very well. But the magnetometer feature isn't that great. Although it does produce a pretty nice color coded image, there are other devices out there that give a much more accurate visual of whats in the ground. A nice frequency generator/L-rod device like the "Rayfinder" from Image Locators and something more along the lines of the "Double Magnum" from Accurate Locators would be a much better set-up in my opinion.

 

[Carl-NC]

Gud, when you verify dowsing with dowsing, you got nothing. Zilch. Nada. All this stuff you're enamored with is demonstrably false. If you're happy that some guy managed to match his guess with your guess, then call it a day and cut your losses, cause that's about as happy as you're gonna get. You can run around telling people, "Hey look, dowsing worked!" without having to add, "but we never actually found anything."

Lemme know when you've hit $50k in losses, I think that's the threshold of where you actually get serious about wanting to know what's fact and what's fantasy.

P.S. -- If you want to see what happens to people with absolutely no critical thinking skills, look up the MECO folks (Manilla Exploration Co). The people running the thing are fantasizing about being Big Time Treasure Hunters, and doing it by spending other people's money who are fantasizing about getting rich. They've also used those high-tech swivelly treasure finders. There'll be a whole lotta sob stories when it's finally over.

 

[Dell Winders]

If you're relying on an audible tone, ask yourself the following questions:

What DAC chip is your phone using? Your app is generating a digital signal, but speakers need analog input to function. The DAC (digital to analog converter) converts digital information to analog output, just as the name implies. If you consider what actually happens during this process, it's easy to see that this can't be done perfectly. There are good and not-so-good ways to do this, but none of them are perfect. The chip in your phone was selected in order to meet a price point, and not because extreme accuracy is required. In fact, when the specifications for your phone were drafted, it was most likely assumed (accurately in my opinion) that any listening would be done via inexpensive ear buds or the phone's speakers. Given the poor fidelity of these outputs, high signal fidelity would not be noticed in the first place. So why bother with the added cost of a good DAC for accurate sound? Spoiler: they didn't.

What speakers are in your phone? Again, there are good and not-so-good ways to reproduce sound. There is a reason why the speakers in your home theater system are not the same as the ones in your phone, and it's not because the ones in your phone do the job better. If you're like me, you will put up with the external speakers if you have to, but you will use even $5 ear buds at the first opportunity because those speakers sound like garbage. That garbage sound is not the result of accurate reproduction. It's the result of garbage reproduction.

Does a good (or even mediocre) sound system sound more or less accurate than your phone when playing music? Why is that? (I explained above.)

If your phone is not producing sounds accurately, are they even necessary for LRL?

If the "theory" behind LRL requires tones, but you're not actually playing those tones, does the theory still work?

If the theory does not work, what is actually happening here?

AUDIO, is NOT a factor with MFD LRL so there is no discussion to be had on this subject. I have not tried it yet, but theoretically, you could plug ear phones into your cell phone to cut down on the audio noise, and this should not affect the signal strength of the frequency.

Frequency is used for target discrimination. That's it. Almost all frequencies presently used are NOT the actual frequency of the target element, but are a sub- harmonic frequency. There are variety of frequencies from high to low range that can be used to discriminate the same element. As a general rule, the lower the frequency being used, the more precise it will be.

For example: A common frequency used in MFD to discriminate GOLD is 50 Khz , but will still detect GOLD 6 to 8 Hz above, or below the primary frequency. The 222 Hz frequency I suggested will only detect GOLD within 1 to 2 Hz above or below the primary frequency making it a more precise frequency with very little margin for error, or signal drift. Dell

 

[Dave Rishar]

It was the consistency of the L-rods that cemented my belief that it was actually possible. Over the course of several weeks I dowsed the same targets. Eventually I realized that the rods were crossing on the perimeter of the object, so I made an outline of the buried objects by approaching them from different directions, paying close attention to exactly where they began to cross and then I marked that spot. After marking cross points from every direction I connected the dots. To my surprise, the objects were in the form of a rectangle. All measuring the same size. So it was the consistency of the L-rods through so many tests that told me that this couldn't be simply a pigment of my imagination. I've been treasure hunting here in the Philippines for several years now. I know beyond any doubt that there's treasure here from WW2. You'll hear a lot of people trying to dispute that but trust me, its real. Knowing that also made me sure it was possible I had good targets.

And when you recovered it, was it indeed a good target?

 

[Honest Samuel]

I have a free government phone. Is it going to work?

 

[Dell Winders]

I have a free government phone. Is it going to work?

If you can download a Frequency generator App, it should work fine. Dell

 

[Dell Winders]

It is a great learning experience, that leads to further discovery about nature & physics. Dell

 

[Dell Winders]

Gud, when you verify dowsing with dowsing, you got nothing. Zilch. Nada. All this stuff you're enamored with is demonstrably false. If you're happy that some guy managed to match his guess with your guess, then call it a day and cut your losses, cause that's about as happy as you're gonna get. You can run around telling people, "Hey look, dowsing worked!" without having to add, "but we never actually found anything."

Lemme know when you've hit $50k in losses, I think that's the threshold of where you actually get serious about wanting to know what's fact and what's fantasy.

P.S. -- If you want to see what happens to people with absolutely no critical thinking skills, look up the MECO folks (Manilla Exploration Co). The people running the thing are fantasizing about being Big Time Treasure Hunters, and doing it by spending other people's money who are fantasizing about getting rich. They've also used those high-tech swivelly treasure finders. There'll be a whole lotta sob stories when it's finally over.

Carl, please tell us about your years of field experience using, experimenting, testing, and comparing Dowsing, LRL and MFD, that makes you an authority on these subjects? Are you a Professional Treasure Hunter?

Carl,do you agree, or disagree, that the true definition of Dowsing is the meta-physical application of the mind to prompt a physical Ideomotor reaction of L-Rods, or Pendulums, and that No batteries, magnets, or electronics would be required in a meta-physical Dowsing exercise of the human mind?

Why do you keep inferring that those who have successfully located, and recovered objects of Treasure using these methods are mis-guided, or untruthful, and you are not?

As a courtesy, if you are merely posting a biased opinion, will you make that clear in your posts? Dell

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...., "Hey look, dowsing worked!" without having to add, "but we never actually found anything."....

Carl, who said they "never actually found anything" ? OF COURSE they find stuff. Big ticket treasures frequently. But the reason you don't hear about them is NOT that they're "not being found". It's because those finding the treasures can't do any show & tell proof for the following reasons:

a) they fear the govt. who will come tax them now.

b) they fear thieves that will come break into their house to steal

c) they fear claim-jumpers who will figure out their treasure sites and claim-jump.

d) besides, even if they did show pix (of the stacks of WWII treasure rooms filled with gold bars) , you would merely say the pix are fake, photo-shopped, etc... Ie.: you will never believe anyhow.

e) The reason that normal md'rs LITTER the pages of show & tell forums with their latest trophies (rings, coins, relics, etc...) is that those are all small potatoes individual fumble fingers low-value stuff. The dowse guys, on the other hand, are getting the big-ticket caches. Which can't be shown or discussed d/t the above listed reasons.

f) if any are ever shown not to work in staged tests, that doesn't mean "they don't work". It merely means the tester wasn't qualified enough. Or sun spots, or wind or trace ground elements, etc....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... I've been treasure hunting here in the Philippines for several years now. I know beyond any doubt that there's treasure here from WW2. .....

You must be talking about the Yamashita legend ? How do you "know beyond any doubt" that it exists ? You should critically test any story you've heard , for the tell-tale signs of telephone game embellishment. Ie.: camp-fire stories that go awry in the 70+ yrs. since the end of the war. Also read the wiki article on the subject. Paying close attention to the critiques of the treasure story (follow to their bibliography and read the source writings). They give many compelling reasons why it was simply not logical for that story to be true. The logistics and so forth. And the Rogelio story has been shown to be simply fanciful dreaming with zero treasure.

A part of effective treasure hunting research is to ask critical questions, exploring "more plausible explanations". One clue of the Yamashita falling into the category of hokey nonsense, is to simply take one look at the # of maps that circulate for it. Each one with impeccable lineage and bullet-proof true. Right ? Eg.: passed down from a surviving soldier through the family till now, blah blah blah. Heck, it's gotten to where you can buy Yamashita treasure maps on the street corner (each one bullet-proof true, of course).

And here's a another clue as to the "glossy eyed inability " of the seekers to wake up and explore other options: I've bumped into a few, in conversations on-line, who claim to have found it. Naturally, then never retrieve it. But rest-assured: It's there . In some swamp, or some cave, or whatever. They dig, find what they think are hidden clues (that any other rationally thinking person sees as random rocks or squiggles of nature). They dig 50 ft, the walls of their excavation cave in. Or the swamp water infill keeps them from going any deeper, etc... A rational person, at this point, would say: If we can't even dig this deep with heavy modern equipment, then HOW IN THE WORLD was someone going to hide a treasure this deep ? NNNeeeooo, they never ask themselves this question. Instead: The impediments they bumped into are "booby traps". ( pretty clever of Yamashita, eh ?) It's never that the treasure isn't there. It's merely deeper.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

gudfruit7, I see that you had chimed in. Re.: pro's & con's of reality of Yamashita treasure. Saw the notice @ my email in-box. But by the time I log in here today, they're gone ? I enjoyed reading it on the email alert though. Fascinating insight into the psychology of these national-level treasures (Oak island, Lost Dutchman, pearl ship, etc....). Would love to have answered each of your points. They are pretty routine fall-backs on the adherent's side of the speculations.

Like: I love the example of the pyramids of Egypt. As "proof" that insanely large, long-term immense man-made construction *could* be possible. Same logic has been advanced by the Oak Island faithful: When anyone goes to speculate how seemingly impossible it was , with hand-labor of the 1600/1700's to have buried a treasure so deep (or "why the heck would anyone have bothered?"), the pyramids, likewise, are given as the solve-all answer. Ie.: if they could build such immense under-takings as that, then most certainly the Oak Island treasure "is just a little deeper".

So with these kind of answers, it's almost as if the skeptic is put in the following position: If someone can dream up ANY conceivable possible way that some utterly crazy plan or task couldn't have been done, then it, of necessity, means that a treasure is "beyond a doubt" (your words) there ? But I don't see it that way. It (things like the pyramids) might prove that a crazy hatched scheme could have been humanly possible. Given enough manpower, and killing of the witnesses, and elaborate political reasons why anyone would have gone to all the trouble, etc..... But it's a matter of this: What's more plausible ?

And many other great points you brought up that I would like to have addressed. NOT that I can "disprove" that, or any other treasure ISN'T there. But put it this way: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And when those proofs start to be stories passed down for 70 yrs., you have to fairly ask yourself if telephone game could have crept in. Same as you acknowledge the 100's of maps circulating around for this treasure are spurious. Either outright cons to sell on the street-corner, or sincere ones made up by believers years ago, that got spun with supposed lineage now. SO TOO is the lineage of the "surviving soldier" stories. Who was a "friend of a friend of friend of a relative". That too is the oft-told story re.: Yamashita's stories. So while you can admittedly 'diss the maps that circulate, be aware that so too are oral traditions all bearing the same iron-clad surviving soldier stories too. And there's 100's of them, just like the maps.

 

[gudfruit7]

gudfruit7, I see that you had chimed in. Re.: pro's & con's of reality of Yamashita treasure. Saw the notice @ my email in-box. But by the time I log in here today, they're gone ? I enjoyed reading it on the email alert though. Fascinating insight into the psychology of these national-level treasures (Oak island, Lost Dutchman, pearl ship, etc....). Would love to have answered each of your points. They are pretty routine fall-backs on the adherent's side of the speculations.

Like: I love the example of the pyramids of Egypt. As "proof" that insanely large, long-term immense man-made construction *could* be possible. Same logic has been advanced by the Oak Island faithful: When anyone goes to speculate how seemingly impossible it was , with hand-labor of the 1600/1700's to have buried a treasure so deep (or "why the heck would anyone have bothered?"), the pyramids, likewise, are given as the solve-all answer. Ie.: if they could build such immense under-takings as that, then most certainly the Oak Island treasure "is just a little deeper".

So with these kind of answers, it's almost as if the skeptic is put in the following position: If someone can dream up ANY conceivable possible way that some utterly crazy plan or task couldn't have been done, then it, of necessity, means that a treasure is "beyond a doubt" (your words) there ? But I don't see it that way. It (things like the pyramids) might prove that a crazy hatched scheme could have been humanly possible. Given enough manpower, and killing of the witnesses, and elaborate political reasons why anyone would have gone to all the trouble, etc..... But it's a matter of this: What's more plausible ?

And many other great points you brought up that I would like to have addressed. NOT that I can "disprove" that, or any other treasure ISN'T there. But put it this way: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And when those proofs start to be stories passed down for 70 yrs., you have to fairly ask yourself if telephone game could have crept in. Same as you acknowledge the 100's of maps circulating around for this treasure are spurious. Either outright cons to sell on the street-corner, or sincere ones made up by believers years ago, that got spun with supposed lineage now. SO TOO is the lineage of the "surviving soldier" stories. Who was a "friend of a friend of friend of a relative". That too is the oft-told story re.: Yamashita's stories. So while you can admittedly 'diss the maps that circulate, be aware that so too are oral traditions all bearing the same iron-clad surviving soldier stories too. And there's 100's of them, just like the maps.

That's fine Tom. Thanks for your opinion, I respect and appreciate it.

I came here to let everyone know that I've had what seems like success using the free LRL method originally described by Dell Winders in the first post. Understandably, there are people doubting that. They have reason to doubt since I haven't actually completed the recovery yet. So take my information or leave it. GL

 

[Dave Rishar]

AUDIO, is NOT a factor with MFD LRL so there is no discussion to be had on this subject.

Then why did you advise people to turn the volume all the way up in your initial post?