free home energy Forever, heres my idea....and its hot.

[cheese]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

You'd be better off using the power generated by the solar panels by itself, rather than reducing it by pumping water over the wheel with it.

The idea won't work. In order to pump such a large volume of water to the top of the wheel, you would have to have an even larger volume of water turning the wheel...which means it is impossible without an outside source. If you wanted to pump 100 gpm to the wheel, it will take more than 100 gpm to turn it. Just like trying to connect an alternator to an electric motor that turns the alternator. You might think you can just give it a spin and the alternator would power the motor and it would run on it's own. Trouble is, it takes more power to turn the alternator than it puts out, no matter how high output alternator you get (the higher the output, the harder it is to turn).

 

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[Shortstack]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

This is just another angle on the Perpetual Motion Machine idea. The problem with this idea is that it doesn't allow for the energy required to overcome the various resistances to the operation of the machine. That is the same old "killer" of the PMM. You cannot use more energy than the machine can supply to itself in a closed system.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

on a 1 in put vs 1 out put agree 100% -- power in vs power out --no go -- but if by using the water pumped to make enerGy TWICE -- #1 ONCE VIA THE WATER WHEEL TURNING AND #2 A SECOND TIME BY THE WATER THATS "FALLING" OFF THE WATER WHEEL POWERING A RAM GENERATOR PLACE AT THE AREA WHERE THE WATER SPILLS AT COMING OFF THE WATER WHEEL. YOU COULD GAIN MORE ENERGY THAN IT TAKES TO POWER THE SET UP ( THE SOLAR POWER /BATTERY/PTO PUMP'S OUT PUT)

 

[traderoftreasures]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

OK i agree in a closed system 100 gpm couldn't be made to turn 100gpm pump. SO... that's where the weight of the heavy oak wheel comes in to play for one.
for two AND MOST IMPORTANT NOT TO FORGET IS... on the water wheel cups could be made to hold several gallons of water each. therefore increasing the force needed to turn the pump and wheel. If you can get the wheel to hold more water per turn than the pump produces per turn. Plus say the wheel was turning 100 revolutions, than the pump would be turning 1000's of revolutions

 

[diggemall]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

By all means, build it. Test it. Share your results.

Diggem'

 

[cheese]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

So how are you going to get more water in the cups of the wheel than the pump can provide? A moving water supply like a stream? If so, it can work (water wheels have been in use for centuries). If you just intend to let some stay in each cup, then it won't make any difference. The water left in the cups also has to rise up the up-coming side of the wheel, which cancels out an even greater volume of water on the downward side of the wheel because it takes more water to raise it up to the top. The flyweight action of the heavy wheel won't help either. Heavy or light, it won't help it produce power. If it is 1000 lbs, you have to have more than 500 going own to raise the other 500 going up. You still use more energy than you make.

 

[traderoftreasures]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

what if the wheel only took 80 gallons per minute and the pump put out 100 gpm?

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

By all means, build it. Test it. Share your results.

Diggem'

And let us know when you get the financing.

Even bankers can figure this one out.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

Just build your setup below a good water stream. Problem solved.

 

[cheese]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

How can 80 gpm produce 100 gpm? It can't. 80 gallons weighs somewhere around 640 pounds. 100 gallons weighs somewhere around 800 pounds. How are you expecting 640 pounds to overcome 800 pounds? You need more then 800 pounds to overcome 800 pounds, so you'll need 101 gpm on the wheel to even move the 100 gpm pump. You can look at it from 100 different angles and apply it to a million different ideas, but you will always consume more energy than you develop. You can't get more energy out of something than what goes into it. The laws of physics tell us that energy can't be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed from one form to another.

 

[EagleDown]

Re: free home energy for ever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

Lets forget about the generator. This system will soon grind to a halt after the initial helping hand.
Energy out is always less than energy in due to energy losses like noise and heat through friction.

I'm not suprised by 21st's anti-science stance considering his attitude towards MMGW.
Remember : "Denial is a mechanism of the immature mind, because it conflicts with the ability to learn from and cope with reality."

And he states this, while he himself is in a state of denial!!

 

[EagleDown]

Re: free home energy for ever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

This is one reason that I use my signature line:

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." — Friedrich Nietzsche

For details in this instance, see the the first law of thermodynamics .

The "first law of thermodynamics" are based on Maxwell's equasions which as taught to "Engineers" is not complete. If Maxwell's COMPLETE equasions were taught in Universities, overunity, (free energy) would be powering your home right now.

The real Maxwell theory has never been routinely taught in electrical engineering, which contains only a pale shadow of it. For the full Maxwellian theory, see James Clerk Maxwell, "A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field," Royal Society Transactions, Vol. CLV, 1865, p 459. Read Dec. 8, 1864. Also in The Scientific Papers of James Clerk Maxwell, 2 vols. bound as one, edited by W. D. Niven, Dover, New York , 1952, Vol. 1, p. 526-597. Two errata are given on the unnumbered page prior to page 1 of Vol. 1. In this paper Maxwell presents his seminal theory of electromagnetism, containing 20 equations in 20 unknowns. His general equations of the electromagnetic field are given in Part III, General Equations of the Electromagnetic Field, p. 554-564. On p. 561, he lists his 20 variables. On p. 562, he summarizes the different subjects of the 20 equations, being three equations each for magnetic force, electric currents, electromotive force, electric elasticity, electric resistance, total currents; and one equation each for free electricity and continuity. Most electrical engineers have never even read Maxwell’s theory, even though they were falsely informed that they had studied (and mastered) “Maxwell’s theory.”

Free download of that original Maxwell theory can be made directly from the ZPE website, at links

http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Maxwell_1864_1.pdf
http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Maxwell_1864_2.pdf
http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Maxwell_1864_3.pdf
http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Maxwell_1864_4.pdf
http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Maxwell_1864_5.pdf
http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Maxwell_1864_6.pdf
http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Diagram.pdf

 

[diggemall]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

SOMEBODY, PLEASE build this system so we can put this one to rest.

If it were possible to get more energy OUT of a small scale system than you put INTO it, SOMEBODY would have broken "ranks" with the rest of the world and be making $$$$$$$$$$$ with it by now.....................

Diggem'

 

[traderoftreasures]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

Currently accepting donations....If i had the money I know I could build it and I'm sure it would work. I have the generator.

 

[traderoftreasures]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

My first idea was to put a 120 volt electric motor shaft to shaft with a 220 volt generator... with a flywheel inbetween the two... hooked shaft to shaft.
Then give the unit a spin up to 3600 rpm.
Once it's up to speed it will be putting out 240 volt and only 120 would be needed to continue to run the motor.
That would leave an extra 120 volts for pleasure.
And the system would run until the bearings wore out.
The flywheel would help

 

[diggemall]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

My first idea was to put a 120 volt electric motor shaft to shaft with a 220 volt generator... with a flywheel inbetween the two... hooked shaft to shaft.
Then give the unit a spin up to 3600 rpm.
Once it's up to speed it will be putting out 240 volt and only 120 would be needed to continue to run the motor.
That would leave an extra 120 volts for pleasure.
And the system would run until the bearings wore out.
The flywheel would help

ooooooooookaaaaaaaaaaaaayy.................

Here's the description of a 4kW, 240 VAC genny from an unnamed source......

Generator,4000 W
Item # 6HJ88
Direct/Belt Drive Generator, 5000 Max AC Watts, 4000 Rated Watts, 8 HP Required, 3600 RPM, 4.0 kVA Rating, Voltage 120/240, 33.3 Amps @ 120V

Let's couple it to a 7-1/2 Hp 230 VAC motor from the same vendor....................(can't find a 7-1/2 Hp 120 VAC 1 Ph motor on short search)
(8Hp is within the 1.15 SF - it'll just draw about 8% more power to deliver the 8Hp)

Close-Coupled Pump Motor, Capacitor-Start, Open Dripproof, 7 1/2 HP, 3500 RPM, 230 Volts, 213JM NEMA Frame, Service Factor 1.15, 60 Hz, C-Face with Rigid Base Mounting, Double Sealed Ball Bearings, Thermal Protection None, Full Load Amps 39.0, Rotation CW/CCW, Ambient 40 C, Shaft Dia 7/8 In, Shaft Length 4 1/4 In, Carbon Steel Shaft Type, Insulation Class B

Whoops......the motor requires MORE power to turn it than the genny is capable of producing..........(39A X 230V = 8.9Kw)...........and under full load, won't even get you to 3600 RPM (slip)

There ARE ways to get "free" energy: Wind, Solar, Hydro, Geothermal, tidal, wave, etc.... But the COST / KWH over the life of most systems GENERALLY approximates conventionally generated power........ There jsut ain't no free lunch.

If you would like to see an ingenious application of LOW-TEMP geothermal Search out the system installed at Chena Hot Springs (the high temp geothermal systems in use in Scandanavia are almost no-brainers)

 

[cheese]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

oh man...

Go get an alternator, a car battery, and a DC motor from the junkyard and put your theory to the test. Geniuses have pulled their hair out trying to do what you want to do, unsuccessfully. They got way past the generator/motor or waterwheel/pump stages and still couldn't do it. You aren't going to find an electric motor that can turn the generator fast enough to power itself with NO spare power, let along power to spare.

Also, a generator doesn't work that way...using a 120 volts from a 220 generator doesn't leave you with "an extra 120 volts".

It's good that you're thinking, but you've got to get some understanding first. Otherwise you are just speculating and making theories based on misinformation.

Is it possible to get more work out of a machine than it requires to operate? I don't know...maybe, but not with a simple waterwheel and pump or motor and genset. Keep plugging along at it and learn more about volts, amperes, joules, horsepower, and other methods of measuring "work" and force and compare the work a machine is capable of producing versus the work the driving machine requires to operate it.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

There ARE ways to get "free" energy: Wind, Solar, Hydro, Geothermal, tidal, wave, etc....

And even those are a tax on the source. It's a small tax, but they are not exactly free.

 

[traderoftreasures]

Re: free home energy Forever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

here is another working unit...

 

[21stTNCav]

Re: free home energy for ever, here's my idea....and it's hot.

Lets forget about the generator. This system will soon grind to a halt after the initial helping hand.
Energy out is always less than energy in due to energy losses like noise and heat through friction.

I'm not surprised by 21st's anti-science stance considering his attitude towards MMGW.
Remember : "Denial is a mechanism of the immature mind, because it conflicts with the ability to learn from and cope with reality."

I am not anti science. I actually appreciate those that dissected this proposal and showed why it broke with contemporary physical science theory. Not only that they many showed where it might possibly work with some modifications. I am not sure why my attitude toward MMGW is a factor other than one in my favor because my attitude it backed by scientific fact. I leave that discussion for another thread and well you might.