FOUND OKLAHOMA KGC ROCK CARVING MAP, DRILL HOLES, AND METAL MARKERS ..... HOPEFULLY?

tinhorn · Jul 20, 2016

Dsty, I am finishing my last class in three weeks. When fall arrives we might need to plan a texas road trip. I will be in touch.

Loot, I would chalk it all, sometimes even the way they wrote a name is significant.

LOOT · Jul 21, 2016

I will get some pictures from farther back and chalk the signs. Thanks guys.

dsty · Jul 21, 2016

I have found that a Corner Marker will have these things in common, 90 / 270 degrees, and 360 / 180 follow both directions at least 1320 feet, (1320 feet = 1/4 mile ) there should be a knee high or a flat rock about 30 inches across at that point and it WILL have a sign indicating 4 directions either carved or the V / pointed or something that's similar, they would mark the sides and the 1320 feet can be seen far off, Leaves and such can be a pain, They did use compass's and you should also, no use wandering thru the woods with out a plan, I have seen markers in line with the 1/2 point way but they don't have any verify markers on them. I don't intend to continue this if no one is using these methods so let me know. Markers can be Horzional or vertical They will always be marked, When you find odd ball degree's you could possible inside a settlers square ( always use one of the 16 compass degrees ) Royal Trails are different, and always draw a map you can always re- do it when you get home

Quinoa · Jul 21, 2016

IMH opinion, and I will reserve how accurate my opinion is to myself, that's really too far to go from real markers. They just don't work like that in general. When you find the markers you are usually in the general area or close proximity to something. Although when you are at one site near a large tunneled cache spot, multiple burial spot, or mine, alot of times there is something that points out the next closest important site, like across a canyon or across a river. And the long distance stuff is mostly visual and seen from one or 2 specifically set up markers to the other site.

And yes I totally agree on some stuff , a 16/32 point compass, and also a 8/12/24 point one, plus a 360 point one. You will find large old markers and smaller newer ones on the same site employing multiple set compasses. I wouldn't get too caught up in any particular specific thing, it wasn't one single group of 20 guys doing this across the US. Use Varas and Spanish feet first from the older markers that are larger and have alot of lichen. If it's further than 100 varas they were using "sightline" calculations to get the distance which isn't too difficult. They used to use the same calculations to shoot(snipe) people for hold over from long distance back in the old iron sight type days with 50 cal black powder and also 45 -70's.

LOOT · Jul 26, 2016

dsty said:
I have found that a Corner Marker will have these things in common, 90 / 270 degrees, and 360 / 180 follow both directions at least 1320 feet, (1320 feet = 1/4 mile ) there should be a knee high or a flat rock about 30 inches across at that point and it WILL have a sign indicating 4 directions either carved or the V / pointed or something that's similar, they would mark the sides and the 1320 feet can be seen far off, Leaves and such can be a pain, They did use compass's and you should also, no use wandering thru the woods with out a plan, I have seen markers in line with the 1/2 point way but they don't have any verify markers on them. I don't intend to continue this if no one is using these methods so let me know. Markers can be Horzional or vertical They will always be marked, When you find odd ball degree's you could possible inside a settlers square ( always use one of the 16 compass degrees ) Royal Trails are different, and always draw a map you can always re- do it when you get home

Thanks dsty, I am definitely trying to use your method, and I appreciate the help. Do you use a correction for magnetic declination when working a settler's square? If so, how many degrees?

dsty · Jul 26, 2016

Still use the same method they did, magnetic and it still works great

LOOT · Jul 26, 2016

dsty said:
Still use the same method they did, magnetic and it still works great

dsty, You have mentioned before that you add initials together (ex H.M.= 813) to get a section number. I have a few questions about this:

1. In a square league, would this mean each section is 412' x 412'?
2. Does this mean there are a total of 1,024 sections in a square league?
3. When numbering the sections do you start with 1 in the NE corner, then go west to NW corner, then snake back and forth until 1,024 (same pattern as current Section Township Range).

LOOT · Aug 2, 2016

I took some measurements of the drill holes. I am hoping someone can give me some insight on direction and distance.
The dimensions of the drill hole on the turtle is 8" diameter and 3" or 4" depth (depends on where you measure from for depth). The turtle head is pointing 180* south and the eye is pointing 90* east.

This is the layout and dimensions of the 3 drill holes in the rock: (in the picture the yellow lines are pointing down at the drillholes)
1. 1st drill hole is 2" in diameter and 8" deep. The height of the rock is 36".
2. 2nd drill hole is 2" in diameter and 6" deep. The 2nd drill hole is 53" from the 1st drill hole at 360* north. The height of the rock is 24".
3. 3rd drill hole is 2" in diameter and 4" deep. The 3rd drill hole is 27" from the 2nd drill hole at 10* NNE. The height of the rock is 18".

The drill holes are approximately 50' north of the turtle, and the turtle is approximately 50' north of the carvings. They are in a straight line. I did notice a slight difference in the carvings from what I originally posted. At the bottom of the carvings it appears to be an H H D and a F attached to the bottom of the second H. I have attached a picture of this correction also.

As always, any tips would be greatly appreciated.

mdog · Aug 2, 2016

LOOT said:
I took some measurements of the drill holes. I am hoping someone can give me some insight on direction and distance.
The dimensions of the drill hole on the turtle is 8" diameter and 3" or 4" depth (depends on where you measure from for depth). The turtle head is pointing 180* south and the eye is pointing 90* east.

This is the layout and dimensions of the 3 drill holes in the rock: (in the picture the yellow lines are pointing down at the drillholes)
1. 1st drill hole is 2" in diameter and 8" deep. The height of the rock is 36".
2. 2nd drill hole is 2" in diameter and 6" deep. The 2nd drill hole is 53" from the 1st drill hole at 360* north. The height of the rock is 24".
3. 3rd drill hole is 2" in diameter and 4" deep. The 3rd drill hole is 27" from the 2nd drill hole at 10* NNE. The height of the rock is 18".

The drill holes are approximately 50' north of the turtle, and the turtle is approximately 50' north of the carvings. They are in a straight line. I did notice a slight difference in the carvings from what I originally posted. At the bottom of the carvings it appears to be an H H D and a F attached to the bottom of the second H. I have attached a picture of this correction also.

As always, any tips would be greatly appreciated.

View attachment 1343026

View attachment 1343046

View attachment 1343042

View attachment 1343043

View attachment 1343044

View attachment 1343031

View attachment 1343032

View attachment 1343033

I don't know if this will help you or not, but you have some things similar to stuff I have seen in the field. Here's a turtle head shaped rock sticking out the side of a hill.

You can see the V shape pointing toward the eye of the head. This points up a ravine that goes from the bottom of a 70 foot bluff to the top. The ravine is approximately east-west. At the top of the ravine, to the north, is a horseshoe shaped terrain feature up against a cliff on the bluff. There are three rock formations there that form a triangle, an eye, a heart and a D. The D points to a large hole.

Here's a rock with carvings on it similar to some of your carvings.

Notice the top H. The right leg is longer than the left, same as one of yours. On the bottom of the long leg are an AF, the F points the direction to go. You might also notice the B that is carved like your two B shapes. This might be a terrain feature indicating a line of high ground. In your case, the two B shapes could indicate a ravine or some kind of pass.

The site I'm looking at was probably setup during the late 1800's to early 1900's and was created by Masons.

LOOT · Aug 3, 2016

Thank you mdog. That is extremely helpful. That is exciting to see another site that is so similar to mine. I have a couple questions if you don't mind:
1. What are the general distances you are traveling to the next signs in your area? Is 10s of feet, or 100s of feet, or miles?
2. On your letter carvings, when you said to follow the F, do you follow the two lines of the F, or the one leg of the F?

If I understand correctly, It sounds like my next move will be to follow the direction of the F and look for a ravine, or a pass.
Thanks again for your help.

mdog · Aug 3, 2016

LOOT said:
Thank you mdog. That is extremely helpful. That is exciting to see another site that is so similar to mine. I have a couple questions if you don't mind:
1. What are the general distances you are traveling to the next signs in your area? Is 10s of feet, or 100s of feet, or miles?
2. On your letter carvings, when you said to follow the F, do you follow the two lines of the F, or the one leg of the F?

If I understand correctly, It sounds like my next move will be to follow the direction of the F and look for a ravine, or a pass.
Thanks again for your help.

Quinoa's post #24 probably best describes the place I'm looking at. Distances are in hundreds of feet and the shortest distance is the last one, 100 feet. Longest was about 1000 feet from the head to the next marker. Also the trail went from the bottom of the bluff to the top. Instead of drill holes, a small map was carved on the bluff, showing the shapes and pattern of the last three signs.

I followed the direction of the two lines on the F. The two H's and the D might be showing the corners of a triangle. There could actually be carvings of those letters that form a large triangle. Or, those letters might be found placed like the drill holes. The D might have something on it that gives the last direction and distance. Don't know if this will help but you can check it out along with the other stuff that has been offered.

If you have a high spot close you might want to check it out

LOOT · Aug 4, 2016

Thanks for the tips mdog. That is very helpful.

LOOT · Aug 4, 2016

The rock with the HHD is on the side of a large rock at the bottom of the spring. It makes it difficult to get a direction from the signs when the rock is not flat on the ground. I've attached a picture of this marker from a distance. Does this make a difference on interpreting the signs?

mdog · Aug 4, 2016

LOOT said:
The rock with the HHD is on the side of a large rock at the bottom of the spring. It makes it difficult to get a direction from the signs when the rock is not flat on the ground. I've attached a picture of this marker from a distance. Does this make a difference on interpreting the signs?

View attachment 1343785

In the upper right corner of the picture, are those two rock columns in the background?

I'm not sure about your question. On a vertical carving, I've had luck thinking of the carving as a compass and going in the general direction of anything that looks like a pointer. As an example, the vertical face of the rock could show something pointing to the left and up. Even though the pointer would be pointing south, I would think of it as a compass pointing NW and I would look for a marker in that direction. You will just have to experiment until you find something that works out. Dsty gives good advice about stuff like that.

LOOT · Aug 5, 2016

mdog said:
In the upper right corner of the picture, are those two rock columns in the background?

I'm not sure about your question. On a vertical carving, I've had luck thinking of the carving as a compass and going in the general direction of anything that looks like a pointer. As an example, the vertical face of the rock could show something pointing to the left and up. Even though the pointer would be pointing south, I would think of it as a compass pointing NW and I would look for a marker in that direction. You will just have to experiment until you find something that works out. Dsty gives good advice about stuff like that.

There are two rocks in the top right corner. They are bigger than they look in the picture. They are not really column shaped when you get a closer look at them from on top of the rock.

That explanation of the how to look at vertical carvings makes perfect sense. That is exactly what I was asking. Thanks for the tip.

dsty · Aug 6, 2016

If that has any carving on it it would sure make a good corner marker,

LOOT · Aug 12, 2016

dsty said:
If that has any carving on it it would sure make a good corner marker,

Yes it does have carvings on it, dsty. The picture above is a picture from farther away of the rock with the BB carving that I posted to start this thread.

I also found a diamond shaped rock caught my eye about 50' south of the large rock with the BB carvings. The diamond shape rock is pointing west. is this rock possibly a marker?

dsty · Aug 13, 2016

Yes Loot from the type head sticking I have found three and mine yard Several extra marked boulders, Yard it may be that they are just to identify that its in a yard, seems that those that I have seen are some just are sitting on top of the ground, not much effort to tip them over some will be solid in the ground, I have been reflecting and the only thing that they may be is to show the line North and south that seperates the East 1/2 that shows the how every thing is laid out from the west 1/2 placement which ( has the Old Hand Dug Hole ) Once more you should walk to the South East corner perhaps 3 / 4 hundred feet 135 degrees and it should have a corner marker near that location, Then there should some drill holes also.

Pictonary · Sep 13, 2016

LOOT said:
I found these large rock carvings on the side of a large bolder in the bottom of a spring in a very secluded area. There are some unique signs with the BB and box with a dot. I'm not sure if the name through the middle is graffiti from a later date or part of the original carving.

Approximately 100' from these carvings there is a large turtle head coming out of the side of a hill. Following the eye of the turtle took me to three drill holes in the top of a rock. The drill holes are in a straight line and are about 2 in in diameter and 12 in deep. They line up in the north and south direction and the last drill hole is into a ledge.

Directly under these drill holes I found a decorative door of an old cast iron stove. Next to the stove piece I had another hit that I began to dig up. A few inches deep I found one side of a horseshoe. The odd thing is that this horseshoe was sitting on its side in the ground. Once I got the horseshoe out of the ground I saw that it was bent on one side so that it would easily stand up on its side. It seems impossible that this horseshoe was bent or placed in the ground by mother nature. The round part of the horseshoe was pointing north, parallel with the line made by the drill holes.

Outlaws have be documented being in this area and I have hopes that this may be a treasure site.
Has anyone ever heard of outlaws using stove pieces or horseshoes as a marker?
Has anyone ever seen a BB, or box with a dot, or a cursive letter J carving?
Could there any other possible explanation for the drill holes?
I would greatly appreciate any thoughts and ideas on interpreting these signs and strategies going forward.

View attachment 1333997

View attachment 1333998

View attachment 1333999

View attachment 1334000

View attachment 1334001

View attachment 1334002

View attachment 1334003

It most definitely says R.R. BOX (railroad) how far are you from a railroad rhymes with b starts with t for thumb which is what a hooked pointer finger looks at obviously says "the" then there's a RR at a box

LOOT · Feb 20, 2017

dsty said:
If and when you come across a drill hole that's drilled on an angle, work it like you would put a tent stake in the ground in the direction of the best pull point, the only ones that I have seen are at a settlers square, but I will bet there are others using the same method, good to see you posting Tin. Finally got to Texas and Palo Duro Canyon, Blistering HOT but perhaps winter time is coming and it should get better, Tell every hello for me. Really enjoy the Photos of the kids. ( Loot It sure help to get more area around your carvings back up the camera about 5 ft

dsty, here is a picture of the rock from farther away as your requested:

I also found another rock with what looks like a cursive V and a heart shaped rock beside it. There is also a half drill hole in the rock with the V similar to other drill holes I have found. Pictures below: