Forest service 4x4 road usage/maintnace

[Asmbandits]

Im looking into a way to transport people to my claim via 4x4 vehicle. Currently there is only access by ohv single track trail that limits access to foot or motorcycles and atv but the trail is much to difficult for atv as there are some gnarly switchbacks that are so narrow and steep its almost impassable. This current route would be in passable width wide for sure in a 4x4 jeep or equivalent. I've always noticed a bald spot along the ridge that looks to be a straight shot down to the man made ohv crossing over the creek, I imagine at one time FS bulldozed straight down the ridge to this location and used during construction of the crossing.It is currently overgrown with shrubs and has some fallen trees to deal with but im thinking might be resurrect-able. The entrance has been blocked off by a mount of dirt forcing people to use the trail. Honestly I always knew it was there and didn't really pay it much mind until recently when I purchased a utv and would like to somehow get down to the creek with it allowing me to bring people in and out of the claim easily. At least half of both paths down are within my claim boundaries, all is US forest land.

This fist map is a 1950's map courtesy of usgs, it shows what I believe is the road I am wanting to use and somewhat resurrect. You can see what is either marked as a trail or 4x4 road just below the number ten, this is the road in question.


Here is a current map and the current route.


This third map I created and blended the two maps together best I could and it looks to be just as I remember seeing it. if all goes as planned soon ill be mapping the wanted road path with my drone, and hopefully if possible clearing the route enough to use.


I would like to know where I stand if I were to take it upon myself to make this route passable to access the claim. I believe it would only require some cutting of shrubs and moving some fallen trees. I would think that since its an existing road that I would be within my rights to do so given the circumstances. I wanted to run it by the crowd in case I'm missing something, last thing I want to do is ask the FS as I'm sure they would not be happy, but I feel I'm within my rights regardless here.

 

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[benny]

...but I also remember hearing something about roads existing prior to a certain date that also cannot be blocked supposedly.. If my venture were to fall within these parameters, then what the FS thinks would not be relevant.

I think that this is what you're referring to:
Revised statute 2477
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_statute_2477
Hope this helps.

 

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[rockbar]

Clay, Bejay, Winners58....... may be able to chime in here eventually and provide some expertise. This is a large, complicated subject.
In the end, the small miner is left to make important decisions and take necessary action all on his own, based on what he has come to understand are his true rights under the law. Mining law is an interesting rabbit hole and I am by no means an expert on it. I know just enough to feel confident to go do what I deem appropriate on my claims.

It seems that starting about 5 years ago, there was a groundswell of interest in learning about mining law and miner's rights. Threads were active on the GPAA, ICMJ, and AmericanMiningLawForum. There was a large volume of great info created, but I think there's only a small bit of it remaining on the AmericanMiningLawForum, which is no longer active. Such a loss.
There is alot of good info on this forum as well, but your search skills will need to be better than mine.

 

[mikep691]

Road and access improvements are not limited to the boundry of your claim. As long as the improvements are less than five acres, there is no need for a POO. However DOI, FS, BLM, DOE, and every other government agency that goes by initials will argue the point. Even being discreet is still visible. In a few years when more of the liberal based government has departed, it may not be as big an issue as today.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

He's in California. The libs home base. They are lucky to still own guns!
In Colorado this wouldn't even be a question hehe. Funny how different areas can be.

Not being political and not trying to offend any libs.

 

[Asmbandits]

Well, I went up yesterday to check it out, we flew the drone down first then walked it and the first half of the road would be easily passable with very little clean up, but the second half is a little too steep and overgrown.. It would require much work to revive it so I'm abandoning that plan.

I do think however that I could possibly use the trail in place, it will be hard but I believe I should be able to get the utv down and back. It will make for an interesting adventure soon..

We poked around and did some detecting, found a little chunkie gold and had an overall good outing. I hope you all have a great next year of gold and adventure!

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I realize, you have decided against improving the fire trail but it is still an interesting topic and relevant to most of us claim owners.

Here is a good case as to why you would not want to first engage the USFS, THEN go and do whatever you feel is necessary.
I think it would be equally difficult if Bator had just cleared the road without contacting the USFS first. It's a lose lose situation.

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20100521715

As a side note, I think this same guy "A. Bator" is serving 180 years now for an unrelated conviction (so much for the sovereign citizen defense).

RS2477 - I'm not aware of any situation where it has been used successfully without county representation/support.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Per the usage of a 4x4 road to access a mining claim. I have successfully had a road added to the travel maps, but it took about a year and the road is open to the public (as it should be).

I would think that a claim owner would be afforded similar access rights as a private land owner would if surrounded by public land.

 

[ghostminer]

We put a new road in to access areas of our mine & are about to put another one in. Yes, taking out trees & moving ground - even crossing one creek & one seasonal drainage creek. What did it take? Working with the FS. Filling out paper work for a Plan Of Operation. Very easy & no problem at all. I don't understand why everyone is afraid to do things the right way.

 

[Asmbandits]

What might be right for your situation may not be for another's. Sounds like the scale of your operation required roads be built and it suited you to contact the FS.

 

[ghostminer]

It's for access & mining/exploration in our case. You can download a template for a POO but that form is not required - you may use your own plan & use theirs as a guideline. There is no charge to submit a POO. For mining purposes we were required to post a reclamation bond. It is transferred to each site as reclamation is completed at the previous site. It is also refunded at the termination of a project. You would start with NOI & they will respond as to weather a POO is required. Honestly, it's not that hard to do. I have done 4 of them with no problem. The time it takes depends on how busy the FS is in your location. Ours took about 6 months from start to finish. I have found the FS in our area to be great people to work with. It's all about building responsible relationships. Just go to their website.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

It's for access & mining/exploration in our case. You can download a template for a POO but that form is not required - you may use your own plan & use theirs as a guideline. There is no charge to submit a POO. For mining purposes we were required to post a reclamation bond. It is transferred to each site as reclamation is completed at the previous site. It is also refunded at the termination of a project. You would start with NOI & they will respond as to weather a POO is required. Honestly, it's not that hard to do. I have done 4 of them with no problem. The time it takes depends on how busy the FS is in your location. Ours took about 6 months from start to finish. I have found the FS in our area to be great people to work with. It's all about building responsible relationships. Just go to their website.

Take a look at the tools those guys are using in the photo (no disrespect intended) then take a look at the equipment and money you have invested into your enterprise. Two different levels of mining. Just the reclamation bonding (at prevailing wages) prevents many from ever progressing from recreational to even exploratory, regardless of how rich their property/claim is. Sure it's easy if you have the funds to spend.
I'm still looking forward to hearing about your operation...did you ever solve your trommel issue?

 

[ghostminer]

POO bond is only $3000 & refundable at end of project date once you do your reclamation. I am 65 yrs young & far from rich. I have some partners involved also. We started this project in 2012. There are few investors willing to risk funds in a small mining project. Investors want hundreds of thousands of dollars if not a million in drilling & trenching etc. before they invest. Not many people have that kind of money just to attract an investor that will want a huge chunk of the pie. I am giving up everything to take my shot at the dream. I have partners that have tapped into their retirement accounts. We are confident of our ground but there are no guarantees in mining. We are still actively seeking a good partner. Haven't made up our minds on the trommel. Goldwasher gave me a good idea about building a large ground sluice.

 

[ghostminer]

Here is picture of trommel used for previous project but it was not ours.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I guess if you are looking at a ground sluice, you really didn't need a trommel to wash your material.

 

[ghostminer]

Just an option we are looking at. I am seriously considering a Heckler Fabrication Trommel also. Just need to make myself write the check LOL.

 

[Asmbandits]

I wanted to share this video AMRA just put out, I am not affiliated with them in any way nor am a member but it really touched on a lot of what was in this thread. This is good info for anyone that spends time out on public lands, the guide Shannon speaks of is also nice to read and hold onto. It affirms a lot of what I had thought to be the case, also I think I will pay the forest service a visit soon and see about adding a lock to a gate that they close intermittently and randomly during the winter months.

 

[Assembler]

You may want to point out (FS) that a burden, as on interstate commerce, means anything that imposes either a restrictive or onerous lode upon such commerce.

In January 2001, the Forest Service adopted a new road management policy, which directs the agency to maintain a safe, environmentally sound road network that is responsive to public needs and affordable to manage. The policy includes a science-based roads analysis process designed to help managers make better decisions on roads. Currently, the Forest Service is looking at ways to make the road management policy work better and is conducting an internal review of the policy.
https://www.fs.fed.us/eng/road_mgt/

 

[Asmbandits]

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[Asmbandits]

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[Asmbandits]

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