???for the animal hunters

[naturegirl]

This isn't metal, but Buckshot found it and we have a "what is it" question. I know there are a lot of hunters on this forum, so here goes. we think it's part of an elk antler, maybe whitetail, not sure if that can be determined or not. What caused the little hole? Of course we are hoping a musket ball, or something like that, and maybe some of you hunters have seen this kind of damage on an antler. Pure conjecture on our part, but it never hurts to ask.

Thanks for looking!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[naturegirl]

I should include pictures!

 

[BioProfessor]

I think the place to start is to try and figure out if it an antler or not. Antlers are not like horns and are made for the year and then shed. They form underneath the velvet and there is a lot of blood flow involved in the formation. The blood vessel network is pretty much in the center and the hard minerals are deposited on the outside. So the cross section will look like the bone you find in a sliced piece of round steak - hard ring around the outside and a "spongy" looking area in the center. So some cleaning on the end or even slicing off the end will tell you if it is an antler. If you can't cut it with a wood saw, it is either fossilized or from a concrete lawn ornament.

My take on the dimple being from a musket ball is that it is possible but if it is an antler and was struck by a ball of lead traveling fast enough to make that dimple, it would have most likely broken it. Either completely in half or at least cracked it pretty good. And a fossilized antler shot with a musket. Lot of trouble to go to for target practice.

Another thing that is odd is that there is no evidence of anything chewing on it. Shed antlers are an important - and sometimes the only - source of calcium for other critters. They find them and start chewing on them almost as fast as they hit the ground.

So let us know what you "see."

Daryl

 

[naturegirl]

Thanks Daryl, and wizard. Don't know if Buckshot will be willing to saw through it or not, but maybe cleaning the ends will reveal a ring appearance. It feels like a saw would cut it, it doesn't have a stone-like feel or sound that I always associated with fossils, but I've learned on here they may not have that quality to be a fossil. I don't think it's pertified. We thought a modern bullet would have broken it, but weren't sure about a more primative fire arm. Then we wondered about this being a bite mark of some kind? but there are no marks on the reverse side like a carnivore gripping it in thier jaws. Will examine it closer.

 

[BioProfessor]

A good cleaning of the end should work. As far as critter marks, the normal critters are the little guys - mice, voles, squirrels, etc. The bite marks will be scrapes.

You don't have to cut it to tell. Just see if a pocket knife will scrap some off the broken end.

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

Or damage at the end of the velvet stage.

Daryl.

 

[kuger]

Looks like an elk brow tine,and I guided professionaly for elk for years.....and years,and I have seen many bullet struck antlers,people tend to shoot for the Antlers,as thats what they are usually looking at!Yours does appear to be just that!

 

[naturegirl]

Yes, Daryl, it seems like the damage was done when the antler was soft, because the surface seems pushed in, but then dried that way. Maybe the animal just hit a stick when trying to shed it's velvet, or like kuger said, bullet damage. Thanks kuger Hope it's damage, 'cause that would be an amazing find, almost like finding the old bullet itself.

Buckshot just confirmed the spongy inside look, with a denser ring towards the outside edge. So probably an antler. cool! Elk were gone from this area by the 1890's or so.

 

[kuger]

Yes, Daryl, it seems like the damage was done when the antler was soft, because the surface seems pushed in, but then dried that way. Maybe the animal just hit a stick when trying to shed it's velvet, or like kuger said, bullet damage. Thanks kuger Hope it's damage, 'cause that would be an amazing find, almost like finding the old bullet itself.

Buckshot just confirmed the spongy inside look, with a denser ring towards the outside edge. So probably an antler. cool! Elk were gone from this area by the 1890's or so.

The fact Elk are no longer there makes it extra cool!It is definatly an Elk tine.I found a petrified Tule Elk antler base here in Cali when I was a kid,the Oakland Museum has it on loan

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I don't think it is projectile damage. More likely from another male during the early rut while still in velvet and the antler was softer. They bang into things and each other pretty violently.

 

[kuger]

I don't think it is projectile damage. More likely from another male during the early rut while still in velvet and the antler was softer. They bang into things and each other pretty violently.
[/quoteWhen they are in the velvet,there antlers are very tender and sensitive,so they are very careful about not banging them.The velvet is usually shed early August,and the rut begins in Sept.Anything is possible I suppose,but the mark in this antler sure looks a lot like the many I have seen over the years.In heavily hunted areas,it is actually not uncommon

 

[kyphote]

I don't think it is projectile damage. More likely from another male during the early rut while still in velvet and the antler was softer. They bang into things and each other pretty violently.

1 point, Charlie P. This is a gouge resulting from two bucks going at it. Were it lead, a direct shot to the center of the anter would have left hairline cracks extending beyond the point of impact.

 

[kuger]

I don't think it is projectile damage. More likely from another male during the early rut while still in velvet and the antler was softer. They bang into things and each other pretty violently.

1 point, Charlie P. This is a gouge resulting from two bucks going at it. Were it lead, a direct shot to the center of the anter would have left hairline cracks extending beyond the point of impact.

#1 its not a deer antler,#2 maybe you too have me ignored,antler bearing mammals do not fight while in the velvet.As said.....for the second time I have seen countless bullet struck antlers and not all have the cracks yo speak of.

 

[kyphote]

I don't think it is projectile damage. More likely from another male during the early rut while still in velvet and the antler was softer. They bang into things and each other pretty violently.

1 point, Charlie P. This is a gouge resulting from two bucks going at it. Were it lead, a direct shot to the center of the anter would have left hairline cracks extending beyond the point of impact.

#1 its not a deer antler,#2 maybe you too have me ignored,antler bearing mammals do not fight while in the velvet.As said.....for the second time I have seen countless bullet struck antlers and not all have the cracks yo speak of.

I'm an avid hunter and can't say I've ever seen a bullet-struck antler. Not that it doesn't happen (example: the famous "hole in the horn" buck) but to see countless bullet-struck antlers is remarkable. That said, I agree with you about the velvet thing, and didn't even see the fact that this was an elk. I'm in total agreement with you.

 

[kuger]

I don't think it is projectile damage. More likely from another male during the early rut while still in velvet and the antler was softer. They bang into things and each other pretty violently.

1 point, Charlie P. This is a gouge resulting from two bucks going at it. Were it lead, a direct shot to the center of the anter would have left hairline cracks extending beyond the point of impact.

#1 its not a deer antler,#2 maybe you too have me ignored,antler bearing mammals do not fight while in the velvet.As said.....for the second time I have seen countless bullet struck antlers and not all have the cracks yo speak of.

I'm an avid hunter and can't say I've ever seen a bullet-struck antler. Not that it doesn't happen (example: the famous "hole in the horn" buck) but to see countless bullet-struck antlers is remarkable. That said, I agree with you about the velvet thing, and didn't even see the fact that this was an elk. I'm in total agreement with you.

Thanks Ky,I cant say I have seen many bullet struck deer antlers as they usually braek from the impact,but as said I have seen a good number ofElk and Moose antlers,struck.I guided hunts for 15 years,and in places like the great "Firing Line",of Gardner Montana(which I am proud to say I never participated in)where there were literally people lined up shooting Elk as the left Yellowstone Park,many animals bore the flying lead,in there antlers.Our area was in there migration path south.I had many clients hit them in the antlers as well.I always said if they are going to hit them any place but where they should,I would much rather have it in the antlers,no suffering,or cruel death The one in question appears to be a brow tine too

 

[johnnyi]

This looks like metal to me (rusted and once hollow) Why don't you put a magnet on it just in case.

 

[naturegirl]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It is definitly organic, not metal, we really think an elk. No way to say 100% but we're satisfied with that part. The chances of a bullet having struck it, and then us having FOUND it decades later are remarkable, but you never know. People have found stranger things. We also realize there is probably not a definitve answer to what caused the dimple, if it weren't so round, it wouldn't be such a question. There is of course the possibility it was just struck with something natural, not man induced. But thanks for your opinions, we were hoping some of you hunters might have seen something like this. Happy hunting all!

 

[SkyPirate]

Where did you find this? Near any know Indian inhabitated areas? This could be the top part of a fire making kit used by indians. See the picture: it would be the part to hold the stick at the top to keep it from drilling a hole in your hand while using a bow to turn the stick to make friction at the bottom and start a fire.

 

[kuger]

Where did you find this? Near any know Indian inhabitated areas? This could be the top part of a fire making kit used by indians. See the picture: it would be the part to hold the stick at the top to keep it from drilling a hole in your hand while using a bow to turn the stick to make friction at the bottom and start a fire.

That is a very good point!!!

 

[naturegirl]

Yes skypirate, it was found in context with Indian habitation. Wow, we'll have to check into this, thanks!