Folks, Ethics.......

bill from lachine

bill from lachine

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Oct 30, 2011
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Folks,

Since this has come up on various threads....thought I'd throw this one out there and see where it leads.

Most professions have some sort of code of ethics or other which they have to follow...comes with the territory.

Myself spending my career in Transportation Marketing (railway specifically).....I had mine to live up to....they called it the blue book which we had to follow....we had to follow the laws of both Canada and the US as it applied to our industry among other things....and we signed it and followed it... effectively if we didn't it was grounds for dismissal....

At some point or other I made a quote to a potential new customer at the request of one of the sales reps.....I get a call from the GM insisting I retract the quote.....due to a conflict with a current wholesale customer we had......this would have been considered collusion and legally wrong.....

So here I am between a rock and a hard place.....go ahead and retract the quote...thus breaking the law.....or refuse to retract the quote and commit career suicide so to speak....

My response the quote stands for the 45 day period.....you want to retract it be my guest....me I'm standing firm.

He backed down and moved on to another position elsewhere in the company....from my experience in the industry.....95% of my confreres played by the rules....and maybe 5% would
play loose and easy with the ethics....

What's your experience ethics wise in your careers past or present....let's see where this goes.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

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My granddad always told me to "Say what you mean and mean what you say" I have stood by that and always will... He just always taught me if you make a statement you had better be prepared to stand by it.. I have always remembered this and have always respected what he meant by it.. Just my thoughts..
 

Eric,

Yep.....regardless of that blue book I'd make the same call again.....we've all got to look ourselves in the mirror at the end of the day......money is just money.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

I've seen lots of unethical people climb the ladder and rub elbows with lots of other unethical people.

I was once accused by one such person up on the ladder who said to me, "You know what your problem is Larry, your moral values are too high."

I have something he will never have. Respect.

There is only one person in the world that must live with your decision. You are the only one who can make it.
 

Worked in sales/service in my youth. A customer who i was helping with inverter choice for his needs accused me of trying to sell him some thing he did not need for a greater commission.(remember the customer is all ways right) i pointed out the company president and suggested the man ask him what my commission was,then told him i refused to accept a commission just because of people like himself. He left with what he needed.
 

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Most people think they are ethical. Most are not. There have been numerous experiments proving people are opportunists and their survival mechanisms kicks in. Other experiments showing , in the end most will follow orders.
In a military tech school the instructor, wanting his class to do well, had a habit of leaving the answers to the final exam on a file cabinet and would leave the room. One student pointed out that the instructor left answers there ( he might have been told by the instructor before hand).
Even though cheating would have carried a huge punishment of the 30 or so in the class only two didn't use the answers provided. BTW those two that didn't cheat also didn't get promotions like the others did due to poor test scores. Their decision followed them.
So, for all who feel ethical, which group would you fall into?
Most can justify almost any action. Ethics disappear at the University or church door. I'm not saying ethics don't exist, just saying the odds are 30 to 2 they don't.
I should add, ethics are more apt to exist if one can afford to be ethical.
 

hvacker,

Interesting point.....I kind of find it hard to believe that many people 28 out of 30 would lapse under those conditions....but heh....could be a sign of the times.

I just found in my industry at least it was a pretty tight knit crowd and if you were a sleazy type....the word got around that you weren't to be trusted....just an unwritten rules so to speak..... so what came around went around.

I was always pretty much a free spirit type.....so I was driven by the challenge not the money.....in some ways it made my life much easier and less complicated by avoiding the games some others played.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

ETHICS...? ALWAYS "Situation Specific"; by CULTURE, Geographical location, Faith, etc. MANY "factors".
 

True story:

I had just graduated from medical school and had barely been a doctor for two months. I was on coverage for two hospitals...one of which happened to be the Malcolm-Randall VA at UF. I got called at 2am into the ER to see a suicidal vet with a blood alcohol level of 350 (very high). I had been flip-flopping between the two hospitals and had not slept all night. I went into the room and talked to the vet...did my physical exam. When I pushed on his abdomen he screamed bloody murder. Over his right upper quadrant he had extreme pain. He was suicidal, paranoid, and had audiotory and visual hallucinations. His labs were abnormal for liver enzymes and white blood count. He had a fever.

I called the medicine attending to tell him that I thought he had an acute abdomen and needed to be admitted to a medicine unit...not a psych unit. A long cascade of curse words followed and he then told me to admit the patient to the psych unit. I ignored him, called the on-call surgeon, and notified the OR. The on-call surgeon was furious that an intern had paged him and woken him up in the middle of the night. He called the medicine attending, who then chewed me out, cursed some more, and said, "If you don't admit him to the psych unit you will never admit anybody to this hospital again."

I stood my ground. I told him 'no' and hung up the phone. Thirty minutes later...the medicine attending, the on-call surgeon, the chief of the VA, and my program director were all in the ER bearing down on me. My program director asked me, "Why didn't you just admit him to the psych unit and then call medicine in the morning?" I answered, "If I admit him to the psych unit he will not be alive in the morning." The surgeon was mad at all of us. He stormed into the patient's room and did an exam. One minute later, he walked out and told the nurses to bring the patient immediately to the OR. Prior to the surgeon going in the room I was the only doctor who had examined the patient.

The patient had acute cholangitis and was becoming septic. He went from the OR to the ICU and stayed there for two weeks...he survived.

I made a mortal enemy of the medical attending...the chief of the VA never acknowledged me afterwards, the surgeon never knew my name, and my program director said, "Don't ever do that again! Had you been wrong you would never practiced medicine in Florida."

Three months later something similiar happened, when I called a medicine attending he knew who I was and called the surgeon immediately.

I took an oath to "Do no Harm." I knew that pt. was dying. Admitting him to the psych unit would have killed him. I put my career on the line for a man I had never met and never saw again. He has no idea I saved his life. I would do it again.

Crispin
 

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Crispin said:
True story:

I had just graduated from medical school and had barely been a doctor for two months. I was on coverage for two hospitals...one of which happened to be the Malcolm-Randall VA at UF. I got called at 2am into the ER to see a suicidal vet with a blood alcohol level of 350 (very high). I had been flip-flopping between the two hospitals and had not slept all night. I went into the room and talked to the vet...did my physical exam. When I pushed on his abdomen he screamed bloody murder. Over his right upper quadrant he had extreme pain. He was suicidal, paranoid, and had audiotory and visual hallucinations. His labs were abnormal for liver enzymes and white blood count. He had a fever.

I called the medicine attending to tell him that I thought he had an acute abdomen and needed to be admitted to a medicine unit...not a psych unit. A long cascade of curse words followed and he then told me to admit the patient to the psych unit. I ignored him, called the on-call surgeon, and notified the OR. The on-call surgeon was furious that an intern had paged him and woken him up in the middle of the night. He called the medicine attending, who then chewed me out, cursed some more, and said, "If you don't admit him to the psych unit you will never admit anybody to this hospital again."

I stood my ground. I told him 'no' and hung up the phone. Thirty minutes later...the medicine attending, the on-call surgeon, the chief of the VA, and my program director were all in the ER bearing down on me. My program director asked me, "Why didn't you just admit him to the psych unit and then call medicine in the morning?" I answered, "If I admit him to the psych unit he will not be alive in the morning." The surgeon was mad at all of us. He stormed into the patient's room and did an exam. One minute later, he walked out and told the nurses to bring the patient immediately to the OR. Prior to the surgeon going in the room I was the only doctor who had examined the patient.

The patient had acute cholangitis and was becoming septic. He went from the OR to the ICU and stayed there for two weeks...he survived.

I made a mortal enemy of the medical attending...the chief of the VA never acknowledged me afterwards, the surgeon never knew my name, and my program director said, "Don't ever do that again! Had you been wrong you would never practiced medicine in Florida."

Three months later something similiar happened, when I called a medicine attending he knew who I was and called the surgeon immediately.

I took an oath to "Do no Harm." I knew that pt. was dying. Admitting him to the psych unit would have killed him. I put my career on the line for a man I had never met and never saw again. He has no idea I saved his life. I would do it again.

Crispin
Click to expand...

TY for your service; EXCELLENT example of "SITUATION SPECIFIC"!
 

Crispin,

That's what it's all about.....looking in the mirror and saying you did the right thing.....

Song to follow.

This song fits the bill on a few different levels.....including honoring the 9/11 heroes....I would think it should bring back a few memories for you also.





Regards + HH

Bill
 

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Rebel,

You have a way of throwing curves balls my way.....you must have been a baseball pitcher in your youth....lol.

Yes I agree there's always grey areas in life.....not always black and white.....sometimes we go with the flow and do the best we can under the circumstances....

Here's a real life situation where I held back some info for the sake of the person at the time....didn't lie.....just didn't give them the whole story at the time.

Near the end of my career my company hired a hot shot MBA consultant as my boss....probably about 15 years younger than me at the time....but at least he had enough smarts to know that I knew the business inside out and used me as a sounding board for major decisions.

He tells me Rita one of our new hires doesn't seem to have what it takes to do the job and is thinking of letting her go.

My response was she's just a kid starting out fresh from University and she has what it takes....I'll coach her and she'll do ok.....gave her a call and told her to bounce things off of me whenever she wished and I'd be her mentor.....6 months later she was the best rep we had
and was opinionated.....forceful, etc.....she had the skill sets all along....I just helped draw her out...

I never did tell her that her job was on the line and I saved her bacon.....just the right thing to do....and I'd do it again and again.

Regards + HH

Bill


Rebel - KGC said:
ETHICS...? ALWAYS "Situation Specific"; by CULTURE, Geographical location, Faith, etc. MANY "factors".
Click to expand...
 

bill from lachine said:
Rebel,

You have a way of throwing curves balls my way.....you must have been a baseball pitcher in your youth....lol.

Yes I agree there's always grey areas in life.....not always black and white.....sometimes we go with the flow and do the best we can under the circumstances....

Here's a real life situation where I held back some info for the sake of the person at the time....didn't lie.....just didn't give them the whole story at the time.

Near the end of my career my company hired a hot shot MBA consultant as my boss....probably about 15 years younger than me at the time....but at least he had enough smarts to know that I knew the business inside out and used me as a sounding board for major decisions.

He tells me Rita one of our new hires doesn't seem to have what it takes to do the job and is thinking of letting her go.

My response was she's just a kid starting out fresh from University and she has what it takes....I'll coach her and she'll do ok.....gave her a call and told her to bounce things off of me whenever she wished and I'd be her mentor.....6 months later she was the best rep we had
and was opinionated.....forceful, etc.....she had the skill sets all along....I just helped draw her out...

I never did tell her that her job was on the line and I saved her bacon.....just the right thing to do....and I'd do it again and again.

Regards + HH

Bill
Click to expand...

Taken from my studying for my Minor in Religion; Major in Psychology (have M.Ed. in Counseling). Worked with ppl from MANY different cultures, faiths, countries, ppl with VARIOUS disabilities, US Military Vets (with/without disabilities)... "google" SITUATIONAL ETHICS.
AND! I DID play Baseball in High School; was NOT a pitcher. Third base; then, Center-field (playing CENTER-FIELD by John Fogerty - US Army Reserve Vet 1966-67).
 

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Folks,

Here's the song that went poof for some reason.

 

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Stand behind your words,beliefs, but,dont hesitate to screw those who screw you for they deserve no better.:wink:
 

Red,

Now let's play nice....this is supposed to be a civil thread....please leave your weapons at the door and we'll all get along fine.

Regards + HH

Bill

Red James cash said:
Stand behind your words,beliefs, but,dont hesitate to screw those who screw you for they deserve no better.:wink:
Click to expand...
 

Reb. Are you into signs and symbols? KGC?
 

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