✅ SOLVED FN 1909 Bullet Casing

[Old Pueblo]

Found this casing, which says F N for Belgium I guess, with 1909 underneath of it, along with the unfired WRA Co. .30.06 round from 1918. Does anyone know what this bullet was fired from? Since I found this other military bullet nearby, I was thinking it could be military. Im sure the 1909 is not the date the bullet was made but the model year of the gun the ammo goes to or possibly the year the ammo was introduced. This casing appears to be a little shorter than the .30.06 round from 1918, and the only weapon I know of introduced in 1909 and used by the US military was the French designed M1909 Hotchkiss machinegun. Any help would be much appreciated, thank you.

 

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[NOLA_Ken]

It is Belgian made, and 1909 is going to be the date it was manufactured. It is almost certainly a 7.65 x 53 Mauser cartridge. That caliber was introduced in 1889, ans was used in Mauser rifles by several different countries, most notably Argentina. If the length of the cartridge is 53.6 mm that will confirm it, but since it's been flattened an accurate measurement of the length will be hard to get for certain. The rim should be 1mm thick and 12.05mm across as well

 

[Old Pueblo]

Great info, thank you. And you really think its from 1909, huh? Thats great. I saw some Mauser stuff when I was trying to find info on this, but I didnt know what to think. I am no expert. I didnt really think it was US military, so its good to know. Thank you

 

[Old Pueblo]

I found this casing in an old mining camp here in Southern Arizona, where I know the US military was stationed in the 1910s/World War I era. (The US Army was sent into to protect Arizona mines from Germans saboteurs and Mexican rebels.) Would it be unusual to find an Argentine bullet up here?

 

[ecmo]

Well if the Mexicans were there they very likely could have been useing the wonderful 7.65 Argentine mauser.

Don

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I found this casing in an old mining camp here in Southern Arizona, where I know the US military was stationed in the 1910s/World War I era. (The US Army was sent into to protect Arizona mines from Germans saboteurs and Mexican rebels.) Would it be unusual to find an Argentine bullet up here?

Not really, by the time that bullet was made the original Model 1899 Mauser rifles it was designed for had been replaced by more modern (at that time) rifles, including a Model 1909 Carbine, there's a good chance surplus rifles would have made it up this way. The 7.65 was used by Argentina, Colombia, Bolivia, and a few other South American countries, so there were a lot of them out there. Who knows.... Maybe Butch and Sundance brought one back with them..... More likely though in my opinion, is that it was part of the arms and ammunition used by Pancho Villa. Yours may not have been fired by one of his men, but I think there's a chance it found it's way into the US that way.

 

[Old Pueblo]

Not really, by the time that bullet was made the original Model 1899 Mauser rifles it was designed for had been replaced by more modern (at that time) rifles, including a Model 1909 Carbine, there's a good chance surplus rifles would have made it up this way. The 7.65 was used by Argentina, Colombia, Bolivia, and a few other South American countries, so there were a lot of them out there. Who knows.... Maybe Butch and Sundance brought one back with them..... More likely though in my opinion, is that it was part of the arms and ammunition used by Pancho Villa. Yours may not have been fired by one of his men, but I think there's a chance it found it's way into the US that way.

Thank you, and yes Mexican bandits/rebels (whatever) were all over Southern AZ back then. There was even a shootout with some bandits just a couple miles west of where I am now, (and about a mile or two south of where I found this old ammo) and Im about 30 miles north of the border.

I also know that the Mexicans used a lot of Mauser rifles at this time. Many of them were supplied by Germany, which is part of the reason why we invaded Mexico in 1914. Interesting stuff. Thanks again