Fishers going after new wreck this year.

[aquanut]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Salvor6,
Judging from those fine photographs, no wonder you didn't make any money during your salvage operation. Drinking beer next to your million dollar land yacht doesn't give you a lot of bottom time!

Voldy,
I appreciate your understanding and insight.

Alexandre,
Do you think your time and budget allowed you to perform a comprehensive archaeological study on those wrecks. I can assure you Salvor6 and myself would have consumed a hell of a lot more beer working those sites. Not to mention, we would have enjoyed some luxury accommodations (see photos)... not at the taxpayers expense either...

Aquanut

 

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[FISHEYE]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

What is this Now you have to bash the Fisher's? The Fishers have done more to enlighten the State of Florida in shipwreck archeology than anyone. They certainly don't scam investor's as you seem to be implying...Alexandre.

Aquanut

My question was why can Fisher salvage wrecks, and others why can't? (I mean the "new" rules of salvaging)
I couldn't know every news about him, because I am living out of US, and I get my info mainly from here...So maybe everybody knows any exceptions concerned Fisher's -- except me?
Please explain it to me.

The hun,

The "new" rules of salvaging hasnt stopped anyone from looking for new wrecks nor has it stopped anyone from getting permits to work them.All you have to do is follow the new rules and pay the state what they want for the permits and everything else.The fishers know where lots of wrecks are.Maybe they found one that will be more profitable than what they have now.Investors like that.

 

[aquanut]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Hey Fisheye,
We need to make some headlines this year so everyone can jump down our throats. Wouldn't that be great for a change!? Heck you, me Frank, Rob and Pete could get real controversial if we wanted!
Aquanut

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Alexandre
I read your reports. They seem to say that you took 1,500,00 euros from the government(taxpayers) and another 500,000 euros from museum's(taxpayers) of which you and your henchmen took half in salaries and another couple hundred thousand euro's in personal expenses(meals, transportation, etc..). The rest you spent on equipment and other expenses. And when this was done all the results and intellectual property belonged to your group and all you had to do was mention that the government had given it to you. And you stole all this without even using a gun. The pen is truly mightier than the cannon.
And you say treasure hunters are looters?
What are you?
Seahunter
Scott Thomson

Alexandre to be fair, I would like to know:

a) Who paid for the costs to excavate the 9 shipwrecks you excavated?

b) How much treasure was brought up?

c) What did your investors get out of it?

Hi Salvor 6

Of the wrecks I found, I only excavated 2 - and only because they were going to build a marina pier on top of them. The money to do that came from the European Community, local town, local government and Portuguese Government.

The reason behind that was - if want to have some part of a public, marine, common area, for your own use, them you have to able to keep the public's interests preserved. According to the Portuguese Constitution, environmental and historical values are of everybody's interest. This extra cost will be paid, in the end, by all recreational sailors docking at the said marina.

If they dont want to pay the extra cents, then they are free to go and dock at the commercial harbour, 10 clicks north.

As for my other projects, let me tell you how much the Portuguese taxpayers have contributed to a 15 day surveying and probing of an unknown wooden wreck in the south of Portugal.

We were 6 divers. We all paid our meals and slept in an elementary school, where we also put our gear and heavy duty equipment. All archaeological work was done pro bono.

Total cost of the 15 day campaign for the State was 600 US dollars (and this takes into account fuel and logistics).

You can read a summary of it here

http://www.machuproject.eu/

on pages 16 and 17:

http://www.machuproject.eu/documenten/MACHU_Report 2.pdf

 

[armchairQB30]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Alexandre seems to have some sense of entitlement or claim to Spanish treasure found in US waters. The tone of 75% of your emails are always drenched in some form of arrogance that you are the self appointed authority for the official Spanish position on all things gold. I think in this case that Alexandre is the real pirate after Seahunter reviewed his paperwork. He basically lied saying he made nothing. Page 16 and 17 tells a different story. I assume that his envy over the Black Swan treasure is just killing him.

What we have here is a clashing of ideologies that manifests itself in the area of treasure hunting. The American spirit of adventure and taking chances versus the typical European socialistic mind set. Go find something Alexandre and post it on here instead of taking potshots across the pond like you always do. Even someone who just metal detects on the weekends can take part in this dream.

 

[signumops]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

There are a number of online forums for archaeologists. This one is for treasure hunters. Why do so many would-be archarologists show up here, like unsupervised children? Their chatter is ascinine. We are treasure hunters. They are not (well maybe they are... just dressed like sheep).
"to take away a man's hope is a wicked thing" - Winston Churchill

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Alexandre seems to have some sense of entitlement or claim to Spanish treasure found in US waters. The tone of 75% of your emails are always drenched in some form of arrogance that you are the self appointed authority for the official Spanish position on all things gold. I think in this case that Alexandre is the real pirate after Seahunter reviewed his paperwork. He basically lied saying he made nothing. Page 16 and 17 tells a different story. I assume that his envy over the Black Swan treasure is just killing him.

What we have here is a clashing of ideologies that manifests itself in the area of treasure hunting. The American spirit of adventure and taking chances versus the typical European socialistic mind set. Go find something Alexandre and post it on here instead of taking potshots across the pond like you always do. Even someone who just metal detects on the weekends can take part in this dream.

Armchair, why make this a US V Europe issue ? I am European (English) and certainly dont share Alexandres view.
What is it with you guys and socialism ? I mean you are socialists yourselves, you just wont accept the lable.
Alexandre Has extreme views, but that does not mean because he does all of Europe is the same ? far from it. If I meet a neo-nazi American should I tar all Americans with that same brush ?
I too have seen Alexandre post all kinds of hogwash, but im not about to assume all Spanish people are like him.
The Fishers are adventurer's and risk takers, and that is the kind of people that will get involved with their search for treasure... adventurers and risk takers, be they American or any other nationality.


Gary

 

[armchairQB30]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Peerless,

Thank you for your comments, while I do not agree with you, I will respect you and what you post. Alexandre seems to enjoy in drive by postings quite a bit. This site provides an opportunity to watch real treasure hunters post their finds, invite laymen to help them, see new finds sometimes on a daily basis, read awesome stories and interact with folks bringing history up out of the water. I don't like to see them disrespected or put on an "Internet Trial". Alexandre's sense of entitlement and his self appointed position of "World Gold Judge" are annoying and very infantile. He should ally himself to folks on this site and make friends instead of creating his anti-American treasure hunting attitude. Guys like Seahunter and GOHO allow folks on their boats to treasure hunt with them. Trez is always there to give his opinion on found cobs. Many others on this site are just fascinating beyond words sometimes...once again I don't like those guys being challenged. My comments were not directed to you or the country of England. My thoughts are that Alexandre was out of line and needed to be called out on it, his disdain for the Fishers is like the little boy whose parents wont let him have an ice cream cone and he threw a fit. I really question the wisdom of him casting a bad light on the Fishers while this board is full of Fisher lease people.

 

[Alexandre]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

There are a number of online forums for archaeologists. This one is for treasure hunters. Why do so many would-be archarologists show up here, like unsupervised children? Their chatter is ascinine. We are treasure hunters. They are not (well maybe they are... just dressed like sheep).
"to take away a man's hope is a wicked thing" - Winston Churchill

Why are so many treasure hunters in the sub-arch mail list?

Besides, I am learning here, too. I hope, someone, somewhere, can learn a bit from me.

 

[Alexandre]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

He basically lied saying he made nothing. Page 16 and 17 tells a different story. I assume that his envy over the Black Swan treasure is just killing him.

Although the Mercedes was found in the Portuguese EEZ, 24 km south of our land, I am not envious. I am just amusing myself with the court show.

 

[Alexandre]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Alexandre
I read your reports. They seem to say that you took 1,500,00 euros from the government(taxpayers) and another 500,000 euros from museum's(taxpayers) of which you and your henchmen took half in salaries and another couple hundred thousand euro's in personal expenses(meals, transportation, etc..).

Well, if you have read that, then I must say that I am paying to do archeology, not getting any money coming towards me whatsoever.

 

[armchairQB30]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Sir,

What we are learning from you is that you made some very bad comments about the Fishers in this thread and some of us did not like it, that is what we have learned from you. We also see that you have a heightened sense of self importance that some of us do not share with you. I assume that you came on this site to learn and share information with real treasure hunters but somewhere in the interim you have become bitter and judgemental towards the Fishers and their associates. Some of us do not appreciate your comments and I feel that an apology to those individuals is in order. I doubt that you will.

Dave

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Well Alexandre
If what you say now is true then what you said before was not. The people whose reports those were admitted in the reports being paid. If you were a volunteer and not paid, you should have not misled us as to the reports being yours.
Seahunter

Alexandre
I read your reports. They seem to say that you took 1,500,00 euros from the government(taxpayers) and another 500,000 euros from museum's(taxpayers) of which you and your henchmen took half in salaries and another couple hundred thousand euro's in personal expenses(meals, transportation, etc..).

Well, if you have read that, then I must say that I am paying to do archeology, not getting any money coming towards me whatsoever.

 

[armchairQB30]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Chirp....chirp

 

[NHBandit]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

This discussion brings up a question that I've wondered about for awhile but it may be off topic in some ways. First of all I'm just a regular guy who plays in the dirt on the weekends looking for the odd coin lost out of someones pocket and have only seen real "treasure" in pictures and museums. I read alot of stuff about the Spanish government making claims to treasure that's been found after centuries of being lost in the ocean and sometimes winning in court but didn't the Spanish steal it from someone else to begin with in most cases ? Like so called "Spanish treasure ships" that sank while transporting gold & silver they looted from the Aztecs & Incas ? But they "discovered" Mexico you say ? Depends on who you ask. Some might say they invaded Mexico, murdered the locals, and stole their valuables.. How can you discover something that's not lost to begin with. The US is another great example and for the record I am an American of English descent whose ancestors came here in the 1600s.. How can any country claim to have discovered America when there were already people here (the Indians in this case) ? Call me simple in my way of thinking, but in my book "treasure" belongs to the person who found it after being missing for hundreds of years, not the people or country who STOLE it prior to it being lost. If I'm way off on this please feel free to correct me.

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

Apparently it is not stealing or looting when you kill people and take it from them, only when you spend your own time and hard earned money and go out and find it on the bottom of the ocean. Go figure.
Seahunter

 

[capt dom]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

ditto

There always is a never ending line of folks
who try and "rationalize" some higher purpose
for ripping somebody off!

like enlightening the heathen natives to the ways of Jesus
for stealing the gold and silver in the first place....

Now bureaucrats and slim ball attorneys are using the courts
to rip off the folks out in the trenches actually doing the work!

Spaniards enacting sovereign immunity based upon The War Graves Act!

bull crap....

The Hapsburg Family that controlled what was then called, "the spains" weren't even from Spain!

National patramony....
more bullcrap....!

What is the difference between a lawyer and a whore?

 

[billinstuart]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

If the archaeological group weren't such dicks, maybe they would have a better working relationship with the true workers and discoverers, the treasure hunters.

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

What is the difference between a lawyer and a whore? icon_scratch

The whore is prepared to use lubrication

 

[Panfilo]

Re: Fisher's going after new wreck this year.

If I might put in my comments in the middle of this confrontation: the interesting thing about this and similar forums is to be able to exchange ideas and hear concepts from opposite sides of where we stand on these controversial issues. Most of the “errors” one encounters are the product of preconceived ideas and notions that many times do not coincide with reality, people just repeat them. It’s important to have input from people like Alexandre to make us comprehend why views like his are widespread and perhaps once he is exposed to the truth behind some myths, he will change his perceptions. In this particular case, regarding the Fishers, their work ethics and above all their proven integrity, it has been confirmed by the hundreds of people that will attest to it over many decades of their continued enterprises.

Personal attacks are not conductive to reaching new levels of understanding and if I might suggest Alexandre that you phrase your queries and doubts more in an interrogatory manner than in a dubious statement…you will notice a completely different reaction.

The truth of the matter is that for treasure hunters to be able to subsist in the future, in this rapidly changing field, they must adapt and be able to work alongside people like Alexandre; he and his colleagues will likewise have to change and adapt. Resources for all the Ministries of Culture are being cut to minimal levels and the protection of this valuable underwater resource is now more endangered worldwide.