fake estate sale ads.

[Jon Phillips]

And for what it's worth.....

If I were to have an auction of all my stuff, or my family's stuff. I would have to go with a reputable auction company (like Higgenbotham). The reason is, I (and we) have WAY too much for a two or three day esate sale, and the items are more expensive than your average estate sale items in a retirement community or suburb (where 99.9% of our sales are). I'm talking cars (a lot of collectable ones....most that have been in magazines, Two on three covers), guns, including antiques, golf carts, large tools and equipement, etc.

Some things require a large estate auction....and in those instances...yeah an auction is better. More of a chunk will be taken out, but they have collectors watching their calender for just such items, and they usually have a month or more leading up to the actual sale to gather the interest.

But if you just have an elderly couple in an average house with no barns full of tractors and hot rods and boats and whatever, and they need to downsize to assisted living...an estate sale is their best bet. They will have nothing too spectacular...nothing that won't be at two or three other sales that weekend, or the next....That's where estate sales come in, and will make more money for the owners, as we will have our own customer base just chomping at the bits to get into the house and see exactly what they know will be for sale in the house.

It's like "apples to oranges" but I don't think some people get that.

There is no way someone is going to pay $1 at an auction for a bottle of fabric softener....or a can of spray paint...because it would probably never be for sale at an auction...or at least sold as "Shelf #1456897 and contents"....Right? If there are 80 items on there...will it get $80 plus the shelf for $10? Maybe...or maybe it sells for $10 for all...we've all seen it. Two or three people standing around might make a bid on it...but most people are waiting for the 4-wheelers to come up! At the estate sale...hundereds of people are going to have two days to decide if they want that bottle of Round-up or not! We'll sell all of that kind of stuff....every week.

So maybe you will see it's different situations, and I'm not blindly defending estate sales because my family runs them.... A Volkswagon Jetta and a new Cadillac Escalade are both cars right? But which one would you rather drive cross-country in? Now which one would you rather use around your home for small errands with gas approaching $4 a gallon?

 

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[bazinga]

Jon... If your posts weren't so long-winded I would actually take the time to reply to you and argue why an auction is better. But I can barely look at your walls of text and get motivated to reply to you.

But to answer one of your questions about how would Shambler know how much an auction makes, he would know, since I have told him. I have worked for 3 different auction houses, and spent a considerable amount of time at each. All three ran different styles of auctions. One was purely on-site estate auctions. One was about 90% Sunday consignment antique sales at our building and 10% onsite. The other was about 75% Sunday consignment antique sales at our building and 20% onsite, and 5% at another location.

We could literally go into your house one morning and have it emptied THAT DAY and have your entire household of items back at the auction house.

So, how much commission do you charge? You sure make it sound like you charge next to nothing.

And please don't tell me you make up the difference between an estate sale and an auction by selling half empty bottles of fabric softener. Not to mention you donate what is leftover? I bet those items would sell at an auction and negate your $80 profit made by selling fabric softener.

 

[bazinga]

It's like "apples to oranges" but I don't think some people get that.

Hmmm...

So on one hand, you have the seller wanting to empty out their entire house and sell it all for the most money.

On the other hand, you have the seller wanting to empty out their entire house and sell it all for the most money.

Sounds pretty different to me...

 

[Jon Phillips]

Jon... If your posts weren't so long-winded I would actually take the time to reply to you and argue why an auction is better. But I can barely look at your walls of text and get motivated to reply to you.

But to answer one of your questions about how would Shambler know how much an auction makes, he would know, since I have told him. I have worked for 3 different auction houses, and spent a considerable amount of time at each. All three ran different styles of auctions. One was purely on-site estate auctions. One was about 90% Sunday consignment antique sales at our building and 10% onsite. The other was about 75% Sunday consignment antique sales at our building and 20% onsite, and 5% at another location.

We could literally go into your house one morning and have it emptied THAT DAY and have your entire household of items back at the auction house.

So, how much commission do you charge? You sure make it sound like you charge next to nothing.

And please don't tell me you make up the difference between an estate sale and an auction by selling half empty bottles of fabric softener. Not to mention you donate what is leftover? I bet those items would sell at an auction and negate your $80 profit made by selling fabric softener.

Ha Ha Ha.....Ok! Sorry I was soooo long-winded, and sucked the life out of you!

Ok...maybe you guys live in the same area...I can't tell, or whatever your experiences were also apply to his area and my area. I was pointing out that you can't judge every company by what certain ones do, just as you can't judge a group of people by what a few do. Like... are all metal detectorists like the clowns on American Digger and Diggers? Certainly not.

Also, I pointed out that although an off-site auction (not an on-site by ANY means) would have all the sellables (maybe everything with certain companies) out in one day, I doubt they would have a check in the owners hand by the end of the next week, unless it was just certain stuff on consignment, not an entire estate.

We charge the local industry standard of 25% and don't take any expenses out. (some charge the owners for their ad.)

My personal experience with some local auctions....One always makes the statement that "If any Auction house offers to do an auction for anything less than 35%...run for the hills, because there is no way they can cover their expenses for less." Also, I see how hard it is at 25% and much lower overhead. It was my opinion based on my experiences.

And on making up the differences selling smalls individually...again....those are our experiences...yours may be different. And yes we donate what is left over, and the owners can claim whatever they like of what is leftover, or throw the paperwork in the trash...but it is usually a pickup truck load unless there is a bed or table or something that doesn't sell.

Sorry again for trying to have a discussion on a message board of all places...or present another view.

 

[Jon Phillips]

Hmmm...

So on one hand, you have the seller wanting to empty out their entire house and sell it all for the most money.

On the other hand, you have the seller wanting to empty out their entire house and sell it all for the most money.

Sounds pretty different to me...

No...see, you don't understand what I'm saying.

Small household full of nothing special= Estate sale is the best bet IN THIS AREA (I've always said "in my experiences")

Large estate or many acres full of vehicles, trailers, antiques, mounted deer heads, guns, lawn mowers, etc= Estate auction is your best bet.

Both sales.... but different cercumstances.

Like "hunting".....Bird hunting, or bear hunting? Suirrel hunting, or big game hunting? Both are the same thing if you over-simplify the situation, but the "details" require much different execution and equipement.....Hence "Apples and Oranges"

 

[bazinga]

You certainly don't need a large estate to have an on site auction. Your basic run of the mill home has enough in it for a sale. An experienced auction company can come in on Friday and have the entire house set up for a sale on Saturday morning at 9am. By Saturday evening, the house and property is empty. You don't need lots of vehicles and barns full of stuff to make it worthwhile for the auction company. Trust me on that one. Even a small estate can easily bring in 3-5k without much effort. Anything less than that, I guess an estate sale would work since an auction company certainly won't take it. But I would imagine you wouldn't want to take it either if the entire house if full of dollar general items.

The estate sale I went to this past weekend had about 75% of the items still left at the end. How is that productive? Like 2 pieces out of 15 pieces of furniture had sold. At auction, it's all gone that day.

 

[Jon Phillips]

Ok....

Then by those numbers it doesn't matter then. Those are normal figures for an average estate sale (that's on the up and up) in this area....I've heard of $22,000 sales, but We've never had one that productive.

So I don't know if that 35% and up is a legit figure for auctions, but I would rather have 75% of 3-5k than 65%.

Like I've said several times....We sell the VAST MAJORITY of items in the house, and get a tax right off for what's left for the owners (so that's 100%), and from start to finish, with a clean house, in less than a week, and have two days to sell the items. They are paid the next week.

Again...you are comparing good auction companies to bad estate sale companies, and applying it to the whole industry. If we didn't think we could make 3-5k on a house we would pass on it, unless it was a favour for a realator or someone we knew.

You say an experienced auction company can come in on Friday and have the entire house set up for sale on Saturday morning? I've never seen that, but maybe you have. We just did two houses in one week....Monday morning start....sales on Friday and Saturday....empty and clean houses Saturday afternoon.....I can't imagine putting a number on, and logging every item in a house (even with a ton of box lots), setting up all the tables and electrical, signs, etc. in one day, and having an auction the next day...but if you've done that congrats!

I will end with this....I've always said what WE do at our sales...not what happens in your area. If the estate sale companies in your area don't know how to do it right....I can't change that by telling you what goes on around here.

By your figures, we get about the same numbers, so the rest will come down to details, and the local customs, and preferences in choosing an auction or a sale.

I'll also comment that there are usually at least three estate sales a week around here (within 15 miles), and the last estate auction(not consignment, but actual on site auction) in this area (50 or so miles) was over a year ago.

I'll end with a public apology (I also sent a p/m) to Leadnugget for my roll in hijacking this thread. I just tried to tell my side of things, and address all things that were brought up instead of certain things, and got (evidently, painfully) long-winded in the proccess.

So sorry again Leadnugget.

 

[Shambler]

But to answer one of your questions about how would Shambler know how much an auction makes, he would know, since I have told him.

ummm... what? If only everyone found you as fascinating as you find yourself, you'd make some money with these posts. But alas....

 

[bazinga]

You say an experienced auction company can come in on Friday and have the entire house set up for sale on Saturday morning? I've never seen that, but maybe you have. We just did two houses in one week....Monday morning start....sales on Friday and Saturday....empty and clean houses Saturday afternoon.....I can't imagine putting a number on, and logging every item in a house (even with a ton of box lots), setting up all the tables and electrical, signs, etc. in one day, and having an auction the next day...but if you've done that congrats!

I've worked for these auction companies that do this. Let's say you are talking about your average 3 br ranch home. We've gone in with 3 people on Friday morning and had.the sale on Saturday. Obviously this can't work on a massive estate, though. Most auction companies don't put a number on and catalog every single item? Yes, that happens when you are selling high end items and they are being cataloged for a large auction and you are doing telephone / internet bidding, etc., but I didn't work for Sotheby's.

For a regular estate auction where there is a single seller, you don't put a number on and log every item at all. That would be foolish and a waste of time as it wouldn't make the items more valuable and if an auctioneer were to do something like that, they would charge an arm and a leg for their commission.

 

[Shambler]

Bazinga's right. (barf)

Generally, there's a legal issue at hand causing the need for liquidation. The idea is to get it sold as quickly as you can for what the public is willing to pay. In my "limited" experience (read: not learned through bazinga - but learned because of bazinga), things go at fair market value at auction with some things going for WAY more than retail value and some things going a tad less. AND, it happens very quickly.

As a buyer, when I see "estate sale", I don't get very excited. It means someone has combed over every item and priced it 30% above actual value. I have way better chances at auction.

As a potential seller (I have a very sick parent), I'd go the auction route with a reputable auctioneer simple to minimize pain and increase speed. I'm confident the profits realized are within 10% of each other.

 

[diggummup]

I'm gonna change gears a little and bring it back to the subject of estate sales by companies versus family members. I had the pleasure of attending a sale this past friday night, a pre-sale actually. This is the first "pre-sale" I have actually managed, as I said in a previous unrelated post "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em", anyway that's another story. The sale was being held by the daughter of the owner, The owner, whom is still very much alive albiet showing signs of Alzheimer's, was getting rid of everything and moving in with the daughter who was holding the sale, both were present and very friendly and full of information regarding the items we were purchasing.

I was able to purchase a large box of items as well as a few others that wouldn't fit in the box. Items included a vintage German cuckoo clock, several pieces of 1920's-1960's Fenton glass, a couple pieces of Waterford crystal, several Masonic items including and antique watch fob and chain, a West Va. Glass cocktail shaker and glasses, some vintage pyrex, a few pieces of old German Crystal, 2 cast iron griswolds, a couple knives, a few books, some perfumes and various other misc. items. Total cost $90, negotiated down from $110.

Based on personal experience, these items would have all been individually priced at a sale being held by a company and would have cost at minimum 3 times as much, even by my favorite company that I buy from. That's why I like family held sales versus company run ones. The opportunity for a "pre-sale" or to bundle items for a bargain price does not exist with a company or auction. Nor is there an opportunity to actually go digging high and low through closets, drawers and garages.

Back on topic to the original OP's title- Lately around here, more and more people are calling their sales "estate sales" when in actuality it's nothing more than a garage sale being held at a "well to do" house. This irks me more than anything. I'm sick of these pretentious jerk offs calling their garage sale an "estate sale" because they live in a home that cost a million bucks or more.

 

[bazinga]

Back on topic to the original OP's title- Lately around here, more and more people are calling their sales "estate sales" when in actuality it's nothing more than a garage sale being held at a "well to do" house. This irks me more than anything. I'm sick of these pretentious jerk offs calling their garage sale an "estate sale" because they live in a home that cost a million bucks or more.

Around here it doesn't take a million dollar home for the owners to think there "sh1t don't stank!" Homes that are only worth 10k have "estate" sales every weekend. And we have very few million dollar homes around here, and they sure as heck don't waste their times with yard sales. It's beneath them.

 

[diggummup]

I went to one yesterday in a gated upscale la-di-da golf course community. At least she advertised it as an "Estate downsizing" sale. She wanted $50 for a set of 6 Mother of Pearl caviar spoons. That's more than they sell for on Ebay. Meanwhile I purchased 3 pieces of sterling for $15, a sugar and creamer and some basket type thing I can't figure out. She even told me they were sterling, total weight 15 ozs. Go figure

 

[bazinga]

Haha, you can't fix stupid. Last year I picked up a nice 14k gold bracelet in one of those golf course communities for like 75 cents. They price the crap high and miss the completely obvious high dollar items. You sometimes wonder how these people made enough money to afford these places.

 

[2ndisbest]

I know you guys like to bash estate sales, but by me I find the opposite to be true. There is much competition to run sales so if you have extremely high prices or don't want to negotiate there are plenty of other sales to hit. I have been keeping a list and out of 50 plus companies I have only crossed off two. It just might be a competition factor. With lots of companies trying to make that buck they better be better than the next guy. Private sales are hit and miss. Some are goldmines for me and others are littered with ebay printouts. Also it pays to build a relationship with the people that run them. Being a constant buyer and just friendly means they want to keep you happy. So they offer you more deals. Just being personable helps. Though again that might be a competition factor. Go go free market capitalism.

 

[diggummup]

I know you guys like to bash estate sales, but by me I find the opposite to be true. There is much competition to run sales so if you have extremely high prices or don't want to negotiate there are plenty of other sales to hit. I have been keeping a list and out of 50 plus companies I have only crossed off two. It just might be a competition factor. With lots of companies trying to make that buck they better be better than the next guy. Private sales are hit and miss. Some are goldmines for me and others are littered with ebay printouts. Also it pays to build a relationship with the people that run them. Being a constant buyer and just friendly means they want to keep you happy. So they offer you more deals. Just being personable helps. Though again that might be a competition factor. Go go free market capitalism.

I agree with the being personable part. The wife is the queen of "schmooze" and negotiating, that's her job at the sales. She can break into conversation with anyone about anything and she'll haggle with the best of them. I search for items while she's "buddying up" with those holding the sale. She's one of the few south Fl. "natives" left down here. She can know their whole life story before it's over with and vice versa. Sometimes this does play to an advantage for sure.

 

[Jon Phillips]

See! Now you guys are on to something! Guess what happens to the ladies that bring us plates of cookies and brownies...and the guys that grab the other side of a table I am trying to wrestle into the back of a way too small crossover vehicle...or the people that we are just glad to see each week because we enjoy talking and joking with them?

They will get the deals, and be called to make crazy deals before the mission picks up the leftovers, or save something they are looking for for them, or maybe even call them in early to look, and in some cases buy something.

The ones that think we owe them something won't see any deals except what's marked on the item.

During this discussion, we had two people call us for a meeting, and both had called the "other guy", and he had quoted them 50% commission!!! That is the same guy that is going to over-price everything in hopes of it not selling...and if it does, he gets half of it...PLUS he has been known to say something sold at half, when it didn't!!! Those are the bad estate sales....for the buyers and the sellers!

 

[Jon Phillips]

Also...I was saying before that it would take someone that had done both auctions and estate sales to make a propper assessment on which was the more profitable way (for themselves and the clients).

It occured to me that the man that trained my mother in the estate sale business years ago had done both. He ran Action Auctioneers for many years...both consignment, and estate auctions...and then switched to estate sales for many more before he retired. He never went back to auctions.

I would think that if he had made so much more money, for so much less work at the auctions, he wouldn't have stayed with the estate sales. He trained my mother to do them because he couldn't keep up with the demand, and she quit her antique booth at the antique flea market, and never looked back.

That's just our experiences, in this area (as sellers). In another area, I'm sure all the estate sale companies might suck, and the auctions are the way to go. (for buyers and sellers).

Anyway...that was all just my opinion, I hoped some people understood what I was saying!

 

[diggummup]

Also...I was saying before that it would take someone that had done both auctions and estate sales to make a propper assessment on which was the more profitable way (for themselves and the clients).

It occured to me that the man that trained my mother in the estate sale business years ago had done both. He ran Action Auctioneers for many years...both consignment, and estate auctions...and then switched to estate sales for many more before he retired. He never went back to auctions.

I would think that if he had made so much more money, for so much less work at the auctions, he wouldn't have stayed with the estate sales. He trained my mother to do them because he couldn't keep up with the demand, and she quit her antique booth at the antique flea market, and never looked back.

That's just our experiences, in this area (as sellers). In another area, I'm sure all the estate sale companies might suck, and the auctions are the way to go. (for buyers and sellers).

Anyway...that was all just my opinion, I hoped some people understood what I was saying!

It's all good. I understand what your saying. It's all about location. In major metropolitan areas areas such as mine, I don't think the auction scenario would work too well for the simple fact that there are too many sales going on each week. Because of the amount of sales each weekend, the most serious buyers/collectors wouldn't be able to attend them all at the same time. In smaller, less populated area/s, the auction scenario would go over quite well probably because the sales are fewer and farther between, thus creating a higher demand for the items at each sale by those "serious" buyers/collectors. Make sense?

 

[Jon Phillips]

Exactly.

Different circumstances require different solutions. We just got back from an interview, and we suggested that the guy call an auction house, or let us sell some of the smaller items, and he could have a yard sale for the rest, as his property is out of the way, and not conducive for having a large sale there.