🥇 BANNER EXTREMELY RARE - HENRY I - NORMAN PENNY! - UPDATED - SCAN ADDED

[CRUSADER]

It doesn't get much rarer than this one!

Henry I
Circa 1119

Only 4 coins recorded at this mint. This is the ONLY 1 of this type at this mint.

This period was full of plated fakes, so they often turn up bent to test them or cut. Due to the broken coins & the fact some where rejected a decree was made that all coins were 'snicked' with a cut before they left the mint. Mine has this tiny snick.

What is amazing about this coin, other than the condition (its better in the hand) is the extra large flan which at a time of silver shortage would have made it very over-weight. See the picture of it next to the ones in the book & notice the size difference Anyone could have easily cut this one down to proper size & lived for 1 week of the cutting! So how this ended up lost in such amazing condition, I'll never know!

For those interested in value, I could pretty much name my price (not that I ever will), but about $1000.

I have said a few times this year that I wanted a good shortcross but this is a find of a lifetime!

UPDATED:
The mint was very thoroughly studied in an article published in 1999, where there were recorded four types for this moneyer in the reign of Henry I. No other types had been recorded since 1999, but this is now another type to add to the list.

Above is part of an email I just recieved, so as I thought, its pretty damn rare. WHOOHOOO.......

SCANNED IMAGES ADDED

 

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[CRUSADER]

i see what you mean about the clipping and the extra silver!

does that mean it was a newish coin when lost?

Its hard to know how much is wear & how much is a weak strike (which we common in this period). I would still think that if it where in circulation for very long someone would have clipped it, as it would easily pass if they had.

I have done some further research, & I was wrong about it being over weight (although much bigger than the book 1:1 pictures). Its not the heaviest in its class, but its not light either. Its above average. They vary from 0.90g-1.50g (mine being 1.35g). ie. average 1.2g

so would coins have been clipped at the mint if overweight?

I'm not sure of the production of these. But later coin blanks were struck without needing a 'trim' after. The crude shape of this looks post striking but I guess it could be done before.

The type of clipping I was referring to was the illegal type done by the public, the type of offence that if caught would get your hand cut off.

Not to be confused with the 'snick' which is the tiny cut done at the mint.

 

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[shaun7]

i see what you mean about the clipping and the extra silver!

does that mean it was a newish coin when lost?

Its hard to know how much is wear & how much is a weak strike (which we common in this period). I would still think that if it where in circulation for very long someone would have clipped it, as it would easily pass if they had.

I have done some further research, & I was wrong about it being over weight (although much bigger than the book 1:1 pictures). Its not the heaviest in its class, but its not light either. Its above average. They vary from 0.90g-1.50g (mine being 1.35g). ie. average 1.2g

so would coins have been clipped at the mint if overweight?

I'm not sure of the production of these. But later coin blanks were struck without needing a 'trim' after. The crude shape of this looks post striking but I guess it could be done before.

The type of clipping I was referring to was the illegal type done by the public, the type of offence that if caught would get your hand cut off.

Not to be confused with the 'snick' which is the tiny cut done at the mint.

so.....clipping, cutting and snicking are all different?

was cutting illegal

 

[CRUSADER]

i see what you mean about the clipping and the extra silver!

does that mean it was a newish coin when lost?

Its hard to know how much is wear & how much is a weak strike (which we common in this period). I would still think that if it where in circulation for very long someone would have clipped it, as it would easily pass if they had.

I have done some further research, & I was wrong about it being over weight (although much bigger than the book 1:1 pictures). Its not the heaviest in its class, but its not light either. Its above average. They vary from 0.90g-1.50g (mine being 1.35g). ie. average 1.2g

so would coins have been clipped at the mint if overweight?

I'm not sure of the production of these. But later coin blanks were struck without needing a 'trim' after. The crude shape of this looks post striking but I guess it could be done before.

The type of clipping I was referring to was the illegal type done by the public, the type of offence that if caught would get your hand cut off.

Not to be confused with the 'snick' which is the tiny cut done at the mint.

so.....clipping, cutting and snicking are all different?

was cutting illegal

Cutting (sometimes as much as 1/3rd in towards the centre of the coin) to test if it was plated was done by the public/merchants. Not sure if it was illegal (but I guess so), it was fairly common practice by people who had no faith in the terrible coinage at the time. So if it were cut & real, I guess most would accept the coin based on the fact there were far worst out there. However, if they were badly damaged then I'm sure some people would not accept them.

 

[Got_4by4]

See there? If you HAD come to detect w/me you might not have found it! So it worked out!
And where might someone find this banner that everyone talks about? I'd like to see it.

Steve

 

[CRUSADER]

And where might someone find this banner that everyone talks about? I'd like to see it.

Steve

Steve, seriously? Its at the top, maybe your firewall is blocking it or is it a joke, that a limey doesn't get?

 

[itmaiden]

Actually $1000 sounds too cheap. If it is as rare as you say, it may be worth way higher. I would contact the Smithsonian if i were you as they may be very interested. Let them make an offer.

itmaiden

 

[shaun7]

i see what you mean about the clipping and the extra silver!

does that mean it was a newish coin when lost?

Its hard to know how much is wear & how much is a weak strike (which we common in this period). I would still think that if it where in circulation for very long someone would have clipped it, as it would easily pass if they had.

I have done some further research, & I was wrong about it being over weight (although much bigger than the book 1:1 pictures). Its not the heaviest in its class, but its not light either. Its above average. They vary from 0.90g-1.50g (mine being 1.35g). ie. average 1.2g

so would coins have been clipped at the mint if overweight?

I'm not sure of the production of these. But later coin blanks were struck without needing a 'trim' after. The crude shape of this looks post striking but I guess it could be done before.

The type of clipping I was referring to was the illegal type done by the public, the type of offence that if caught would get your hand cut off.

Not to be confused with the 'snick' which is the tiny cut done at the mint.

so.....clipping, cutting and snicking are all different?

was cutting illegal

Cutting (sometimes as much as 1/3rd in towards the centre of the coin) to test if it was plated was done by the public/merchants. Not sure if it was illegal (but I guess so), it was fairly common practice by people who had no faith in the terrible coinage at the time. So if it were cut & real, I guess most would accept the coin based on the fact there were far worst out there. However, if they were badly damaged then I'm sure some people would not accept them.

so who cut them in to halves and quaters and what was that called?

 

[shaun7]

See there? If you HAD come to detect w/me you might not have found it! So it worked out!
And where might someone find this banner that everyone talks about? I'd like to see it.

Steve

 

[COUNTRY GIRL]

WOW! Congratulations on a find of a lifetime! Makes me want to get back out there myself. You worked hard for it!

 

[CRUSADER]

Actually $1000 sounds too cheap. If it is as rare as you say, it may be worth way higher. I would contact the Smithsonian if i were you as they may be very interested. Let them make an offer.

itmaiden

The valuation was a guess prior to its full ID. Its priceless to me, but as you say, way over my first stab. Not interested in selling it for the money, I may sell it to a museum for less than its worth to keep it in good company.

 

[birdman]

Yes you have beat my 1945 penny I dug today........... Mindblowing dig!!! CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mistergee]

another banner.....you guys are BEASTS when it comes to the really old stuff...i am so jealous

 

[Jack(IN)]

Looks like the year has been very kind to you and your Dad and I sure hope it continues, might shatter some of your record years!! Congrats on the rare coin!

 

[CRUSADER]

Looks like the year has been very kind to you and your Dad and I sure hope it continues, might shatter some of your record years!! Congrats on the rare coin!

thanks

there is no doubt in my mind that this will be our best year ever

 

[Steve_UK]

Stunning find... Big Congrats to you mate!

 

[CRUSADER]

Stunning find... Big Congrats to you mate!

Cheers, I blame it on my obsession. Permission + Time Spent = Reward

Now get out there & get yours

 

[Ed-NH]

That coin is beautiful. Congrats on your hard work and you wonderful research.

 

[Mainedigger]

Stunning find... Big Congrats to you mate!

Cheers, I blame it on my obsession. Permission + Time Spent = Reward

Now get out there & get yours

Crusader..you are right on about needing to spend the time out hunting...however you seem to be rewarded for that time somewhat better than the rest of us!!! Which is the result of one thing you left out...location, location, location!!!

 

[rubberdiver13]

excellent find...well done ...way to go on the banner

 

[CRUSADER]

Stunning find... Big Congrats to you mate!

Cheers, I blame it on my obsession. Permission + Time Spent = Reward

Now get out there & get yours

Crusader..you are right on about needing to spend the time out hunting...however you seem to be rewarded for that time somewhat better than the rest of us!!! Which is the result of one thing you left out...location, location, location!!!

Your right, I live in an historic area. Far from the best in the UK, but just above average. However, this field has been one of our lowest priorities & we would never be bothered by competition on this difficult area. So, we are not picky about hitting any land we have permission for, many UKers would leave well alone.