Elephant find

[johnnyblaze]

Found this at a really early colonial site.
Anyone know what this might signify?
John

 

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[romeo-1]

What's the size? May be military related but I am far from an expert.

 

[johnnyblaze]

Its about the size of a quarter..With those two loops on the back it was definately a sew on item.
Thanks
John

 

[Kenosha Kid]

What's the size? May be military related but I am far from an expert.

I'd tend to agree. This is somewhat similar:

http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/5012.pdf (scroll down and find the item on page 11)

The description (on page 19):

"A Piper’s Plaid Brooch of a Dumbartonshire Unit
A plain nickel-silver quoit, 31⁄8in. diameter, the voided centre mounted with an
Elephant bearing a Howdah (prong of pin missing)

The Elephant borne by the 74th and the 78th Highlanders was without a howdah. The
Elephant on this brooch is one of the charges on the County Arms of Dumbartonshire. This
item may have belonged to a Rifle Volunteer unit or possibly a Police pipe-band".

Another elephant badge:

http://cgi.ebay.ph/Pre-WW1-Period-19th-Hussars-Cavalry-Elephant-Badge-/360314803801

Although not exact matches, researching military items may lead you to finding it.

 

[Iron Patch]

Found at an early site.... I give that one a shot. No early military found there?

 

[johnnyblaze]

Found at an early site.... I give that one a shot. No early military found there?

What does that say on it?
Im not sure i understood your post..
John

 

[Iron Patch]

Found at an early site.... I give that one a shot. No early military found there?

What does that say on it?
Im not sure i understood your post..
John

My post is showing another regiment that used the elephant... and I your find a chance at being military, but it's very small so I don't know how it would have been worn if it's a badge. If there was other 1812 military items found at the site it would be a positive sign.

 

[johnnyblaze]

Found at an early site.... I give that one a shot. No early military found there?

What does that say on it?
Im not sure i understood your post..
John

My post is showing another regiment that used the elephant... and I your find a chance at being military, but it's very small so I don't know how it would have been worn if it's a badge. If there was other 1812 military items found at the site it would be a positive sign.

Now you got me thinking....The two loops on the back are heavy duty..Im going to have to investigate further..
Thanks alot
John

 

[Iron Patch]

Found at an early site.... I give that one a shot. No early military found there?

What does that say on it?
Im not sure i understood your post..
John

My post is showing another regiment that used the elephant... and I your find a chance at being military, but it's very small so I don't know how it would have been worn if it's a badge. If there was other 1812 military items found at the site it would be a positive sign.

Now you got me thinking....The two loops on the back are heavy duty..Im going to have to investigate further..
Thanks alot
John

The loops are very similar to what are on early hat badges or cartridge box plates, but like I said the size and possible use is what has me. I wouldn't give up on it though.

 

[johnnyblaze]

Iron Patch what was that piece that you have with the elephant on it?
And what does it say?
John

 

[Iron Patch]

Iron Patch what was that piece that you have with the elephant on it?
And what does it say?
John

I just realized I didn't add that, and was coming back.

Just a pic off the net and is a button from the British 76th Hindoostan Regiment of Foot. (War of 1812 era)

 

[CRUSADER]

Its a cap badge of a Military (British?) Regiment. I have seen it before but can't remember which Regiment. A split pin went through the loops to secure it to the Hat/Beret It looks to be a nice early one as well

 

[Iron Patch]

Its a cap badge of a Military (British?) Regiment. I have seen it before but can't remember which Regiment. A split pin went through the loops to secure it to the Hat/Beret It looks to be a nice early one as well

Did you read it's only the size of a quarter? If it was a cap badge I think it would have had to be above a larger number. (but two pieces would seem weird) That's pretty small for a badge.

 

[CRUSADER]

Its a cap badge of a Military (British?) Regiment. I have seen it before but can't remember which Regiment. A split pin went through the loops to secure it to the Hat/Beret It looks to be a nice early one as well

Did you read it's only the size of a quarter? If it was a cap badge I think it would have had to be above a larger number. (but two pieces would seem weird) That's pretty small for a badge.

Seen some almost that small, but I guess it could fall into the shoulder/lapel badge category.

 

[Iron Patch]

Its a cap badge of a Military (British?) Regiment. I have seen it before but can't remember which Regiment. A split pin went through the loops to secure it to the Hat/Beret It looks to be a nice early one as well

Did you read it's only the size of a quarter? If it was a cap badge I think it would have had to be above a larger number. (but two pieces would seem weird) That's pretty small for a badge.

Seen some almost that small, but I guess it could fall into the shoulder/lapel badge category.

What I find strange is the type of attachment for being so small, but certainly doesn't discount it. So you think it's early 19th century?

 

[CRUSADER]

Its a cap badge of a Military (British?) Regiment. I have seen it before but can't remember which Regiment. A split pin went through the loops to secure it to the Hat/Beret It looks to be a nice early one as well

Did you read it's only the size of a quarter? If it was a cap badge I think it would have had to be above a larger number. (but two pieces would seem weird) That's pretty small for a badge.

Seen some almost that small, but I guess it could fall into the shoulder/lapel badge category.

What I find strange is the type of attachment for being so small, but certainly doesn't discount it. So you think it's early 19th century?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Assaye_(Elephant).jpg
Clutching at straws but does the 78th Highlander have history over there? The battle honour doesn't have the castle on top so I think it must be another Regiment.
Looks 150++ years to me

Quote on collar/lapel badges-
'In many cases (especially those collar badges with a design including animals, e.g. Lions, Tigers, Elephants, Dragons), the collar badges are made in 'facing pairs' so that the animals face forwards or towards each other.'

 

[Iron Patch]

Check this out. Are you saying a pin like this? And 74th did use an elephant, so it sort of says a small regt. elephant pin is possible. (because the 74th had such a pin type device)

If you click the link he found a 76th button as well.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,289111.100.html

 

[CRUSADER]

http://www.cadetdirect.com/order1.php?pg=1989

Duke of Wellington looks a good match (Collar Badge, it is ) - I'm now wondering if they maybe later, maybe WWI

 

[Iron Patch]

http://www.cadetdirect.com/order1.php?pg=1989

Duke of Wellington looks a good match (Collar Badge, it is )

So looks like it's a pretty good War of 1812 find!

 

[Iron Patch]

http://www.dwr.org.uk/dwr.php?id=108

'The Elephant became the Collar Badge of the Regiment, following the merger of the 33rd and 76th Regiments. ' When was this?

Found it - 1881 (so post this date)

So in summary:

Post 1881 Duke of Wellingtons (West Riding, Yorkshire, UK) Collar Dog (Badge).

You beat me by seconds. My book shows 33rd buttons worn until about 1881. Then it goes on to the 76th.