early native american pottery piece

[gleaner1]

I posted this item on Tnet years ago. Not much was offered by the members about what it is, so I will try again. This was collected by a man who was the great uncle of the current owner (a good friend of mine), who asked me to post the item again. The item was found in Carisle, Indiana about 1900. The uncle was a doctor during the American civil war. He had an extensive collection of points and such, which he had the local boys pick from the plowed fields. How the finder aquired this specific piece is lost to time, but very well could have been plowed up. But it is all conjecture at this point, as nobody seems to know what it is, or could be. It has three legs, and the four bosses on the sides have about 1/16 diamter holes clean thru to the inside of the pot.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

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[CreekSide]

I wouldn’t be much help on that pot. To me it doesn’t look that old but I could be way off. I’m not up to date on Historical things which I believe it might be but just not positive. That’s about as close as a response I can get to keep from saying idk. But hey maybe someone else might know. I think Regin is good with Historical artifacts

 

[newnan man]

It is a cool looking pot. I'm far from knowing much about NA pottery but I have found a lot of it here in Florida. No full pots or vessels, just broken sherds. It doesn't look like any material I've come across. It looks like it may have a thin glaze to it. If it does, it is definitely not NA.

 

[dognose]

I have seen a number of vessels at the CSASI relic shows, especially Collinsville and Owensboro. I cant say I have seen a vessel that has the same sort of look as this specimen.

Carlisle Indiana is in the Wabash drainage, but I would hesitate to say this vessel had been plowed up in a cultivated field. If this HAD been found in a cultivate field and "plowed up", one could expect the vessel to have plow strikes and like damages. Which I do not see on this specimen.

If this was found in the Wabash drainage area, it's more likely it had eroded out of a rise or water bank somewhere. Just a theory.

In Arkansas where many pots are found, often one will see a probe hole. The sandy soil in that area is conducive to probing for pottery on the large settlement complex. I do not see any probe holes on this in the images.

The Central States Archaeological Societies 2013 July Journal has an interesting column on shell tempering in Southern Pottery. This item may have been tempered with crushed shell.

I would suggest taking this vessel to a CSASI relic show in your area. You mention Indiana but have not listed your state of residence. There is a May CSASI show in Medora Indiana. This is a nice show in a country setting. I liked this location and do attend this event. There is often a CSASI relic show in Sullivan Indiana, but that event is not yet on the calendar.

The best chance to have a knowledgeable pottery collector view this vessel in person would be at a larger relic show - like Collinsville. There is no substitute for an in-person examination and viewpoint.

the holes in the protrusions, do these go all the way through? Are there similar holes in the protrusion on the opposite side?

 

[Crow]

I posted this item on Tnet years ago. Not much was offered by the members about what it is, so I will try again. This was collected by a man who was the great uncle of the current owner (a good friend of mine), who asked me to post the item again. The item was found in Carisle, Indiana about 1900. The uncle was a doctor during the American civil war. He had an extensive collection of points and such, which he had the local boys pick from the plowed fields. How the finder aquired this specific piece is lost to time, but very well could have been plowed up. But it is all conjecture at this point, as nobody seems to know what it is, or could be. It has three legs, and the four bosses on the sides have about 1/16 diamter holes clean thru to the inside of the pot.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

it could be Cherokee Indian fire pot?

It has legs to sit on a small camp fire. The holes was designed as steam vents and the pot would of had a lid. Food placed inside would boiled and steamed like mini clay oven.

Crow

 

[unclemac]

it sure is very clean and patina free. The inside really doesn't show any use either. Unusual to say the least, but we can't help you... take it to Ball state and give them a look see.

https://www.bsu.edu/academics/centersandinstitutes/applied-anthropology-laboratories/services

 

[gleaner1]

I have seen a number of vessels at the CSASI relic shows, especially Collinsville and Owensboro. I cant say I have seen a vessel that has the same sort of look as this specimen.

Carlisle Indiana is in the Wabash drainage, but I would hesitate to say this vessel had been plowed up in a cultivated field. If this HAD been found in a cultivate field and "plowed up", one could expect the vessel to have plow strikes and like damages. Which I do not see on this specimen.

If this was found in the Wabash drainage area, it's more likely it had eroded out of a rise or water bank somewhere. Just a theory.

In Arkansas where many pots are found, often one will see a probe hole. The sandy soil in that area is conducive to probing for pottery on the large settlement complex. I do not see any probe holes on this in the images.

The Central States Archaeological Societies 2013 July Journal has an interesting column on shell tempering in Southern Pottery. This item may have been tempered with crushed shell.
View attachment 2144740

I would suggest taking this vessel to a CSASI relic show in your area. You mention Indiana but have not listed your state of residence. There is a May CSASI show in Medora Indiana. This is a nice show in a country setting. I liked this location and do attend this event. There is often a CSASI relic show in Sullivan Indiana, but that event is not yet on the calendar.

The best chance to have a knowledgeable pottery collector view this vessel in person would be at a larger relic show - like Collinsville. There is no substitute for an in-person examination and viewpoint.

the holes in the protrusions, do these go all the way through? Are there similar holes in the protrusion on the opposite side?

View attachment 2144739

Dognose, the holes go thru all the way on all four bosses.

 

[gleaner1]

it sure is very clean and patina free. The inside really doesn't show any use either. Unusual to say the least, but we can't help you... take it to Ball state and give them a look see.

https://www.bsu.edu/academics/centersandinstitutes/applied-anthropology-laboratories/services

unclemac, thanks for the Ball state lead, I will certainly contact them.

The owner and I have discussed how clean it is. We were thinkiing some sort of smoking device., but it has no evidence of being burned. It appears to have been stone-burnished to a smooth matte finish. It has no sign of modern vitreous glazing.

Does anyone have any comments about the decorations it has? Are these typical of any known pieces out there?

Thanks all......

 

[Joecoins]

Catawba Indians? 4 stem pipe

 

[Joecoins]

The Charleston Museum | News and Events » Pottery, Archaeology & the Catawba Nation

some more info

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Map of Catawba Indian location.

https://archaeology.sites.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/187/2017/08/Catawba-Pottery-in-the-Post-revolutionary-Era-2006-Riggs-etal.pdf

 

[dognose]

Those look similar in style

 

[gleaner1]

My friend and I greatly appreciate the replies from all, especially from Joecoins. It almost certainly is a Catawba piece, based on the unmistakable similarities to the pieces shown in the pictures Joecoins posted. Just a side note, this piece was found around Orleans IN, not Carlisle. I guess it probably made it to Indiana from early white settlers moving west. Honestly, both of us had almost given up hope after not being identified here on Tnet about ten years ago.

 

[CreekSide]

My friend and I greatly appreciate the replies from all, especially from Joecoins. It almost certainly is a Catawba piece, based on the unmistakable similarities to the pieces shown in the pictures Joecoins posted. Just a side note, this piece was found around Orleans IN, not Carlisle. I guess it probably made it to Indiana from early white settlers moving west. Honestly, both of us had almost given up hope after not being identified here on Tnet about ten years ago.

Lots of good people on this site with some great knowledge.

 

[tamrock]

Very interesting piece.