Earliest source of the legends of the transported Aztec gold

[Highmountain]

I don't recall ever seeing any conjectures that VP's one of the Aztec hoards, though I've seen certainties expressed that it wasn't. The reason given was that old Doc Noss found ingots. But I'm not sure why it's believed the Aztec didn't produce ingots of their own in one form or another.

 

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[cactusjumper]

Jack,

"But I'm not sure why it's believed the Aztec didn't produce ingots of their own in one form or another."

It is documented that the Aztec had "Gold bars". They were included as part of the Imperial tribute recorded in the Mendoza Codex.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Highmountain]

Jack,

"But I'm not sure why it's believed the Aztec didn't produce ingots of their own in one form or another."

It is documented that the Aztec had "Gold bars". They were included as part of the Imperial tribute recorded in the Mendoza Codex.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe: Thanks. I wasn't aware it was recorded but I felt sure it was true. What caused me to believe it isn't a well-known factor was something I read in a post by one of the VP threads here the other day. I don't recall the precise wording, but the general context was, it HAD to be Spanish gold because it was ingots.

Maybe it boils down to what a person defines as an ingot. [And a higher level of certainty than I'm in possession of concerning exactly what form the 'gold bars' Noss saw were.]

But if anything's to be believed about what was found at VP, the total amount stored there was greater by several orders of magnitude than the Spanish recieved from New Mexico during their entire tenure as the custodians of it all.

Gracias,
Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO PEEPS: BB you posted -->

its like the preson that was makeing the mt lion tracks to scare me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmm I was under the impression that you saw where it had jumped a fantastic distance upwards to a rock...??

Also the track posted were made by something with weight and moving normally for a four footed animal..

************************************************************************************

HIgh, I am curious , if they could cast bars of Gold, why didn't they utilize other metals? One can easily cast copper, silver, etc. with a lesser temp. than is necessary for Gold. Possibly, they could even reach crude iron temp as was reached in the Mediterranean area. YET ??

I would love to do an AA test of some of the gold artifacts of the Aztec

Don Jose de La Mancha alis Danekin the II

 

[Cubfan64]

HIO PEEPS: BB you posted -->

its like the preson that was makeing the mt lion tracks to scare me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmm I was under the impression that you saw where it had jumped a fantastic distance upwards to a rock...??

Also the track posted were made by something with weight and moving normally for a four footed animal..

************************************************************************************

HIgh, I am curious , if they could cast bars of Gold, why didn't they utilize other metals? One can easily cast copper, silver, etc. with a lesser temp. than is necessary for Gold. Possibly, they could even reach crude iron temp as was reached in the Mediterranean area. YET ??

I would love to do an AA test of some of the gold artifacts of the Aztec

Don Jose de La Mancha alis Danekin the II

Real - for what it's worth, I was also "warned" by BB when he gave me the coordinates to his "Heart Mountain" to visit during my trip the Superstitions a couple months ago, to keep an eye out for the lion because he expected it was still feeding in the area.

I took a part of one of my days while there to climb to his spot to look for the item of interest located below the "headdress" and although the hike and climb provided some beautiful scenery, I found nothing at all - to which his response was "that was what you were supposed to find - it's evidence that whoever was there went to a great deal of effort to make the site look like it had never been touched."

On top of that, not long ago he made a joke of the fact that I had been purposely "chosen" to visit his site by himself and that I was being watched (something to do with him being able to put together a radar tracking system from scratch if I recall). He also then said something along the lines of "LOL, how did you like the view?"

I visited his spot in good faith after sending him several PM's and getting responses of where to go and what to look for, and I never shared the coordinates as I promised him. It was after this "childsplay" that the only conclusion I can draw is that all of this is a game to him - I have yet to get any kind of apology for any of these things (including the homophobic smarta$$ comment he made a couple weeks ago).

I loved the relatively easy climb and enjoyed exploring and eating an apple looking at the views from his "site 1" - but for me it's a case of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

If this is how he treats people interested in what he has to say and share when someone is in a position to really validate the claims he makes, he has nobody but himself to blame when people don't believe him.

Also - as far as analysis of gold is concerned, an SEM (Scanning Electron Microscope) with EDX (energy dispersive xray) can provide an analysis/fingerprint of gold in a totally nondestructive manner - there's sampling issues and multiple analyses in different spots that have to take place, but with something with value like gold, it's nice to be able to get information without destroying any part of the substance itself.

 

[Highmountain]

HIO PEEPS: BB you posted -->

its like the preson that was makeing the mt lion tracks to scare me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmm I was under the impression that you saw where it had jumped a fantastic distance upwards to a rock...??

Also the track posted were made by something with weight and moving normally for a four footed animal..

************************************************************************************

HIgh, I am curious , if they could cast bars of Gold, why didn't they utilize other metals? One can easily cast copper, silver, etc. with a lesser temp. than is necessary for Gold. Possibly, they could even reach crude iron temp as was reached in the Mediterranean area. YET ??

I would love to do an AA test of some of the gold artifacts of the Aztec

Don Jose de La Mancha alis Danekin the II

I believe the Aztecs cast silver and copper as well as gold. For whatever it's worth.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI cub fan : it is interesting and frustrating at the same time.
**************************************************************************************

Jack you posted -->

I believe the Aztecs cast silver and copper as well as gold. For whatever it's worth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is worth a lot my friend, it also shows that I haven't really gotten into my necessary homework.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Highmountain]

HOLA amigos,

Cubfan wrote:

I visited his spot in good faith after sending him several PM's and getting responses of where to go and what to look for, and I never shared the coordinates as I promised him.

I thought that your checking Blindbowman's site as an independent/un-biased witness would have gone some way to validate his various claims, but when you said you found nothing notable, followed by his reply of that is what you were supposed to find - well it didn't help his case to say the least. Blindbowman has stated that this is in fact all a game for him as Cactusjumper reminded us recently, to which I can only say that I think he believes he has found something significant - only time will tell if it is or was. I can't understand someone continuing a complete fraud/game for so long but who knows? As for his offensive post aimed at you, I think he was ticked off at some of the barbs tossed his way and reacted at the wrong person; that he has made no apologies however is inexplicable. If his post was intended as humor, it should have been obvious that it was not taken as humor. This attitude will not be helpful along the road to prove any theory, when it is a certainty there will be folks who will reject/resist new ideas and sometimes with very insulting comments. (As they say - "bin dare, dun dat" - one needs to grow thick skin when tossing around new ideas)

I am fairly convinced that there were ancient residents of the Superstitions, a people who left only traces of their passing through and it is difficult to identify just who or whom they were. They could have been the ancestors of the Aztecs, or of the Pimas or relatives of the Anasazi, and multiple other possibilities, I would love to know the answer beyond all reasonable doubt.
Oroblanco

Not my business here but because it's posted public I'd like to interject an observation about BB and his posts on the threads I started.

Until now I thought the reason BB backed away from posting recently was because he was afraid I'd ask him to RV something. He didn't wish to RV it because he felt it would be in conflict with his shamanistic view of the universe. His last post seemed to be a reply to a request I hadn't made for him concerning that. My last post to him was pointing that out to him and I thought I'd offended him by saying so.

Seemed a nice enough sort of person to me and I don't consider myself involved enough in his efforts to have an opinion about them.

I'm glad I'm not the one offended him, assuming I'm not. Knowing a lot of stuff I don't need to know beats thinking I ran him off by some stupid comment I made.

Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI HIGH, relax he is as addicted to being in here (TN) as we are, he will be back.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ALLO High: You posted -->

Victorio's Secret, it might be called.
~~~~~~~~~

Frankly, I prefer "Victoria's Secret" snicker, hehhehe.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Gentlemen,

It's not like you have not been warned......by bb, himself. It's been a game for him from day one. Some of his latest posts make it plain as day. Some time ago, I decided to play along with him, just to see how far and how foolish his stories would get. Pure entertainment, like watching a dog chasing a ball.

These kind of games get played all the time. There are some that believe in OZ, and would actually enter the Superstitions with complete strangers to take a look. Like OZ, the strangers never appear. Get the picture?

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Highmountain]

Gentlemen,

It's not like you have not been warned......by bb, himself. It's been a game for him from day one. Some of his latest posts make it plain as day. Some time ago, I decided to play along with him, just to see how far and how foolish his stories would get. Pure entertainment, like watching a dog chasing a ball.

These kind of games get played all the time. There are some that believe in OZ, and would actually enter the Superstitions with complete strangers to take a look. Like OZ, the strangers never appear. Get the picture?

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

Man's done me no harm. He's a stranger and I've no investment in anything he's said or might say. A quick read down the VP thread once in a while might be a healthy reality check for anyone who needs one or things BB's out of the ordinary. He might be so insofar as the RV and shamanism side, but he's dead mild in some other important ways. Not even obnoxious so far as I've seen thus far.

I wouldn't set foot in the woods with BB nor with any other stranger and I surely wouldn't climb a mountain for one. If anyone ever climbs one for me he'll likely break a leg or get lost, because it won't be a result of my having encouraged him to do it.

I hope BBs got something good up there, but I don't care much if he doesn't. The man's just electrons on a screen arranged in such a way to represent letters of the alphabet, words. Same as all of us are to one another unless we've met on the ground and come to know one another.

Sometimes it's easy to lose perspective looking at a comp screen and seeing all those electrons arrange themselves into words so's we think we know the fingers on the keys making it happen. But when we think that way we can be dead certain we're wrong.

 

[Highmountain]

Cactusjumper wrote:

There are some that believe in OZ, and would actually enter the Superstitions with complete strangers to take a look. Like OZ, the strangers never appear. Get the picture?

Gee Joe you must be referring to me in this one, for I did actually offer to go there to have a look in person at these mysterious discoveries of Blindbowman. It was also an open attempt to try to sway Blindbowman away from substance abuse, as well as to find out once and for all (for my own personal knowledge at any rate) just what it is that he has been talking about and whether it is anything like the various things he has proposed. I don't actually view the act of going to see in person as a personal belief in OZ or even as a validation of Blindbowman's various claims, but since he insisted that he is off the weed there was no need for any kind of personal intervention on my part. If that makes me a "believer in OZ" in your view, well... that is your prerogative and I don't have a problem with it. Our amigo Cubfan already went to one of Blindbowman's "sites" but did not see anything unusual, and Blindbowman indicated this was what he was supposed to see - not exactly a convincing case. I respectfully disagree with your view of our friends here as "complete strangers" and have known several folks here for a number of years.

Oroblanco

I doubt he meant nuthun by it Oro. Believing in Oz, say you're a PHD geologist, merely means you believe the other side of the fence from what they teach in the geology classrooms. If you are the guy the geologist thinks believes in Oz, but you draw your boundary circle only so far as to believe in Folsom men being the direct ancestors of the Aztec, the guy who believes in the next circle out is the one who believes in Oz. Ad infinitum.

As for strangerhood, there's at least one person on this forum I'm known at least fifteen years and had my eye on from a distance, both online and off. And he's still a stranger to me. But more importantly I'm a stranger to him. At least I hope I am.

But there are plenty of others on this forum who've been on TH and prospecting forums online as long as such things have existed. The ones I haven't met personally I consider complete strangers even though I know a great deal about them. Friends are people I mightn't trust but know to what degree I can trust them. That standard doesn't apply to anyone I've never been through the exams with.

A long time ago, early in my web experience, a woman flew down from Canada to meet me personally because we'd come to know one another so well on line. That's a lesson I've never forgotten. Longest week of my life and I was too polite to send her home early.

But at least she didn't turn out to be a two-headed dwarf homosexual from Fire Island. Missed being that by a chromosome or two.

 

[cactusjumper]

Relaxe Roy,

I was NOT writing about you, unless you were going to make a trip into the Superstition Mountains to visit "OZ". You can find some information on that fairy tale by doing a search for "OZ" here:

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/

It is really just a weird attempt to revive the Calalus legend, by a very bored individual.....much like bb. Each time someone makes an offer to go in with the "group", it's a no show. Each time documents or evidence is promised, it's a no show.

I remember your offer to bb. It was a very nice gesture on your part. My guess is that you would have been left waiting at the trailhead. These kinds of stories all seem to follow a similar pattern. That being..........
NO SHOW!

I am only writing my opinions based on what is being posted and what has been posted......and deleted.

Did you really think I was writing about you?

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I have thousands of pictures taken in the Superstitions. 99.9 % come out fine. bb has the same kind of percentage, except it's just the opposite.

This is a picture I took from the back of a walking horse, over my shoulder and in a light rain:

(We were not on a trail.)

Joe

 

[Highmountain]

Roy,

I have thousands of pictures taken in the Superstitions. 99.9 % come out fine. bb has the same kind of percentage, except it's just the opposite.

This is a picture I took from the back of a walking horse, over my shoulder and in a light rain:

(We were not on a trail.)

Joe

Try taking them from a helicopter sometime.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"This is a picture I took from the back of a walking horse, over my shoulder and in a light rain"

Quality-wise, it's pee-poor. Point is, poor eyesight's got nothing to do with it. It's not like bb didn't know he couldn't see well. How many trips and pictures would it take before you hand the camera to someone else?

I am no photographer. I buy middle of the road equipment and usually leave it set on auto. Just about everyone I know takes better pictures than I do.

Jack,

Nice picture. Looks like you found what everyone is looking for.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Jack,

"Try taking them from a helicopter sometime."

I have been doing this since I was thirteen. Been over the mountains in a helicopter a number of times. I have pictures from up close, and from a fur piece. Here are a few:

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

A few more:

 

[cactusjumper]

Jack,

Turned 63 in February. I have posted this picture before, but you may not have seen it. Picture quality was not so good back then. Dad took the picture. Guy in the black hat was my uncle, Chuck Ribaudo. My mother's uncle was Obie Stoker. Got Dutch Hunter blood on both sides of the family. They didn't even know each other until late in their lives.

Take care,

Joe