daringEagle
Full Member
- Dec 10, 2010
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- #21
Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request
Hi DanB I wanted to let you know this.
This story was published by Ann C. Rue at her website, which no longer exists, http://acr.ismywebsite.com
Julia Thomas and the missing Thundering Stones
By Ann C. Rue
I’m Ann C. Rue, originally from New York, I moved to Apache Junction, AZ in 1997. At a used book store i found a section on local stories. I’ve always been into hiking and bought the “Hiker’s Guide to the superstition wilderness”, by Jack carlson and Elizabeth Stewart. Thus began my adventures in the Superstitions. The book contains many short stories about the places and people, old prospectors, miners, and treasure hunters. I use the book as a guide. As I hike along the trails, I have the book with me to read, and imagine what it must have been like for those people on the hunt for gold and treasure.
one particular legend got my attention. when i was young my great granddad told me a cowboy and Indian story about treasure and a place called Black cross Butt. I always thought he’d made up the whole thing. The legend carlson and stewart tell is only a paragraph long summarizing what is written in “The sterling Legend” by Estee Conatser: “she also recounts a story about a large cache of gold supposedly guarded by a band of Apache known as the Black Legion. This gold is presumed to be in the Black cross Butt area, but the clues and treasure map are rather vague.” y great granddad never said what the treasure was, maybe it was gold, maybe it wasn’t.
According to an article by Ralph Henderson based on the findings of Emory Taylor and Rick Gwynne, in the German Grail legend the Grail is a black and purple quartz from which voices emanate, called the Holy stones. 1 From official documents we know Jacob waltz, the Dutchman, was German. 2 & 3 He was at least 29 years old when he migrated to America. 4 Thus, the Dutchman would have known the German Grail legends.
Apache Indians migrated to the southwest about 1000 AD. 5 It is unclear as to when they first arrived in the Superstition Mountains. 6 According to Tom Kollenborn, the name superstition Mountain came from white farmers in the 1860 who believed the pima Indians were superstitions, because of their fear of the mountain. 7 in the time period of the 1800s and the place of the Superstition Mountains there was no Thunder God in the Apache religion. 8 vet as we all know the legend of the Peralta - Dutchman gold, for lack of a better term, includes an Apache Thunder God. 9 - 11
Logically we can conclude that either the Thunder God was in the Superstitions before the Apache arrived, or was brought there without the Apache’s knowledge some time after they arrived. In either case the Thunder god was foreign to the Apache. Accordin9 to David Hincliffe the Apache, since the Thunder God was foreign to them, thought -it had something to do with white people. 12 & 13
At some point in time the Apache had to have discovered the Thunder God’s presence. This being the case -it logically follows that in their wonderings the Apache came across an area where the Thunder God made itself known to them. This area then become known as the Thunder Ground. As suggested by Henderson, and implied by chuck crawford to Taylor, the Holy Stones of the German Grail legend, from which thundering voices emanated, were hidden at the Thunder Ground. 14 & 15 As already pointed out, someone other than the Apaches did the hiding, and the Apaches suspected whites had done it. Taylor’s research as outlined by Henderson sited the Sinclair - Zeno expedition and colonist migrating west to the Superstitions as being the ones who hid the Holy stones in the Superstition Mountains. 16
According to American history, the Indians were originally friendly to the white settlers. 17 But for colonist of the Sinclair - Zeno settlement to have migrated from what is now New England, along the east coast, as far west as what is now Arizona in the 1300s, they must have been on exceptionally good terms with the Indians, as there were many different tribes along that vast distance, and some were hostile. Logically this su9gest marriage relations between the white settlers and the Indians. Following this lead I discovered white Indians. 18
The Mandan Indians of North Dakota are nearly white with light blue eyes and blond hair. 19 In 1738 a Frenchman, on an expedition from what is now Manitoba, canada, encountered these white Indians in what is now Maclean county, North Dakota, between Minot and Bismarck. 20 Along the Missouri River in 1804 the Lewis and clark expedition spent the winter with the Mandan. 21 In April 1805 the Lewis and Clark expedition headed west down the Missouri River. 22
According to author William Mann, the Lewis and Clark expedition crossed an ancient meridian of great importance to the Knight Templars. 23 This being 111 degrees 57 minutes west. 24 In Henderson’s article, the Holy Stones belong to the German Templars according to Taylor and Gwynne. 25 According to Mann, this important meridian runs down throu9h what is now Tempe, Arizona. 26 According to Goolge Earth GPS, superstition Mountain is at in degrees 24 minutes west. 27 According to Mann, an important location only had to be very near this important meridian, not exactly on it. 28 obviously the most likely candidate for having hid the Holy stones in the Superstitions are the white settlers from the Sinclair - Zeno expedition who married into the Indian tribes and migrated west, bringing with them the German Templar’s Holy Stones -- just as Taylor and Gwynne indicated.
According to Crawford, as relayed by Henderson, a person had to be a high spiritualist (an initiate of 72 degrees) to hear the thundering voices emanatinç from the Holy Stones. 29 Logically we can conclude that when the Apache, in their wonderings, came across the area where the Holy Stones were hidden, only the Indian Medicine Man, and maybe a couple highly spiritual braves or squaws could hear the thundering voice.
LoQically, the Apache would have searched the area for the source of the thundering voices. They would have discovered the thundering to be coming from a stockpile of black and purple quartz -- put there by the colonist from the Sinclair - zeno expedition. it’s likely they also discovered a sizable gold vain, as this is part of the legends. At this point in time the gold vain was probably of no particular importance to the Apache.
According to Taylor and Gwynne the Apache could not understand the thundering. 30 it was in a foreign language they had never heard before. 31 Given the Apache nature they most likely held the thundering stones with great reverence. The area itself, like the gold vain, was likely of no importance; after all, the thundering stones could simply be moved to a new hiding place if necessary.
There is no question Mexican prospectors operated in the Superstitions and the surrounding area. 32 They located precious metal deposits and mined them. 33 Our story is not dependent on a Peralta expedition into the Superstitions. So it doesn’t matter if they did or if they didn’t undertake such an expedition.
Legend has it when Waltz first arrived in Phoenix in 1875 he was accompanied bi’ an Apache squaw. 34 After being absent for about two weeks, they returned with some S70,000 in gold, and the Dutchman (Waltz) had an arrow wound in his left shoulder. 35 Within hours of their return Apaches raided Phoenix, attempting to kill Waltz, and actually capturing the squaw and cutting her tongue out before the town folk drove them off. 36 Supposedly this was revenge for taking the Dutchman to the Thunder Ground. 37
It’s only natural that the Dutchman, who knew the German Grail legends, would have wanted to know why an area was called the Thunder Ground, and to see the thundering stones. Lo9ically, since the thundering stones are part amethyst, and possibly German Grail relics, the Dutchman would have taken some of them along with all the gold he could carry.
An attempt to regain the missing thundering stones was more likely the motive behind the Apache attacking Phoenix. cutting out the squaw’s tongue was most likely for having told the Dutchman about the thundering stones. she could have taken him to the Thunder Ground, shown him the gold vain and said nothing about the thundering stones. After all, the thundering stones could simply be moved to a new location if necessary.
Having failed in their first attempt to regain the missing thundering stones, the Apache had time to think it thru. All they needed to do was move the remaining thundering stones to a new location, and keep a watch for the Dutchman. It was common practice for old prospectors to prepare for the time they could no longer physically endure trips deep into the rugged Superstitions. What they did was hid caches in the foothills so late in life it was an easy task for them to get their gold. 38 From many decades of keeping watch on prospectors, the Apaches would have known this.
since the Dutchman was at the age where he would be hiding cashes, the Apache would have watched and followed him to his caches, and waited for him to depart, so they could then check for the missing thundering stones. This isn’t to say the Dutchman got a free pass because the Apache wanted to follow him. The Dutchman would have gotten suspicious if all of a sudden the Apaches left him alone. so he got his fair share of harassment, but they had no intension of killing him until they regained the missing thundering stones.
Accordin9 to Michael sheridan, the Dutchman is reported to have hidden three caches of gold in the vicinity of weaver’s Needle.” 39 in 1877 the Dutchman took Jacob Wisner as a partner. 40 For the Apaches this could not stand because the Dutchman would never allow his partner to know the locations of his secret caches, which means he would not go to them as along as he had a partner. in order for them to follow him to his caches, the indians had to do away with the Dutchman’s partner. In 1878, conveniently when the Dutchman was away from camp and wisner was alone, the Apaches attacked, murdering wisner, staking him to the ground, and setting him on fire. 41
From 1881 - 1889, when the Dutchman was in his 70s and early 80s, the Dutchman made many trips to his mine, and a lot of people tried to follow him, but he always eluded them. 42 Didn’t you ever wonder how the Dutchman managed to elude all those people said to have followed him in attempting to discover the location of the mine? Unknown to him, the Dutchman probably had plenty of assistance from the Indians. No one was going to do away with the Dutchman until they regained the missing thundering stones.
in February 1891, when the Dutchman was 83, a flood struck Phoenix, and the Dutchman’s home fell in, and he survived by climbing a tree. 43 - 45 Partially paralyzed, he was rescued by Rhinehart Petrasch and taken to the home of Julia Thomas. 46 - 47 On his deathbed he drew a map to his mine and instructed Julia and Petrasch to get a cache from his home. 48
The Dutchman died October 8, 1891 at Julia’s home in the presence of Julia, Petrasch, Mr. carrs, and Albert schaffer. 49 when the Dutchman was buried Julia did not attend, and when Petrasch and the others returned from the funeral Julia said the place had been broke into when she was out, and the map and gold were missing.50
Many years later it was learned that shortly after the Dutchman’s death forty-eight pounds of gold was shipped to the san Francisco Mint by R. J. Holmes at the direction of )ulia Thomas. 5lThe wells Fargo Co delivered $12,288 to Holmes in the presence of Julia. 52 The 1890 Phoenix city directory listed Julia conducting a boarding house on washington Street, and living at Jackson and Mohave. 53 After searching for the mine many times she give up searching and sold copies of the map for $7.00 each. 54
In 1892 she was living at the same address. 55 She was also practicin9 strange religious rituals. 56 By 1908, she had married Albert Schaffer, a religious fanatic, and, while living at 137 west Jackson Street, she and her husband began having visions and communing with spirits, and making predictions about the End Times, which they yelled from the roof top of their home until the authorities made them stop. 57 - 58 This is very, very important. In Henderson’s article and the Crawford biography, Crawford came in contact with one of the thundering stones when he was at the old Thunder Ground, and he too began communing with spirits and receiving visions which were religious in nature, and dealt with the End Times. 59
Instead of yelling from his roof top like Julia Thomas did, Crawford made a video of himself tellin9 of his communing with God, and his visions of the End Times. 60 Taylor transcribed this tape and published it in full in book three of the Crawford biography, which he calls “The Deity.” 61 You can read it at http://trilogy.threethi rteens.com/trilogywebsites/Theoeity/index. html. clearly, the same thing happened to Julia Thomas and chuck crawford. They came into contact with the thundering stones and began having communions with high spirits and religious visions of the future. It didn’t stop there. Julia’s husband began to think he was the true son of God and Crawford thought he was the messenger of God. 62 & 64 This means at least some of the missing thundering stones the Apaches were looking for where with the Dutchman’s gold cache at his home in Phoenix. obviously, these missing thundering stones fell into Julia Thomas’ possession.
What became of the missing thunderinç stones? Julia and her husband moved from phoenix to the san Domingo wash in wickenburg where they carried on their fanatical religious rites and eventually died. 65 of course everyone is blinded by gold. so the only thing anyone thought of value was a necklace of gold nuggets valued then at nearly a thousand dollars. 66 Her cult members are said to have buried it with her. 67 Most likely, some cult member who was not a high spiritualist, for whom the thundering stones were silent, ended up with the missing thundering stones. where they went from there is anybodies guess.
As for my great granddad, did I fail to mention that in his young, oat sewing days he lived for awhile in the wickenburg area where he hunted 9old. This was when he was in his twenties, which was in the early 1900s, when Julia Thomas lived there. My great granddad was in wiqi. He never talked about it. In 1922 he stayed the night in wickenburg on his journey to New York, where he met and married my great grandmother. That night he met what he said was a crazy cult woman. she sold him two rings. She called them the whispering rings. Each had a secret compartment. In one was black basalt. In the other was amethyst. she said one was owned by Julia and the other by her husband, and when you bring them together you can hear them whispering to each other. The crazy cult woman got all bug-eyed like in a trance when she brought the rings together. But my great granddad couldn’t hear the whisperings. He thought she was just trying to scam him out of $5 dollars. But he was young and single, and sewing his oats, so he bought the rings. However, when he woke in the morning she and the rings were gone.
what became of the stockpile of thundering stones the Apaches found in the superstitions? obviously they moved them from the old Thunder Ground to a new one. Crawford found only one thundering stone when he had his experience at the old Thunder Ground. 68 But where was the stockpile of thundering stones moved to? who knows. Personally, I believe the Apaches moved the stockpile of thundering stones to the Black cross Butt area where they were 9uarded by the Black Legion. Everybody is so blinded by their lust for gold they don t realize it’s the thundering stones the Black Legion was guarding, or maybe I just want to believe my great granddad’s cowboy and Indian story about treasure at Black cross Butt is true. But the facts do fit, and it is unmistakable what happened to both Julia and crawford after they came into contact with the thundering stones some eighty years apart.
Please visit me at http://acr.ismywebsite.com . If you have a story to tell I have a story forum on each page where you can post it. Or you can email me at
acr@ac r. i smywebsi te. com
1. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
2. Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin co. Page 57 - 60.
3. Kollenborn, Tom, The Lost Dutchman’s Mine, Apache Junction Public Library, 2009.
4. http://www.ajpl .org/aj/superstition/ldm.htm
5. Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And HOW The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin co. Page 57.
6. cordell, Linda 5. Ancient Pueblo Peoples. St. Remy Press and Smithsonian Institution, 1994. ISBN 0-89599-038-5.
7.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache
8. Ibid 5.
9. Kollenborn, Tom, THE LOST DUTcHMAN’S MINE, Apache Junction Public Library, 2009.
10. http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/index.htm http://www.aaanativearts.com/apache/apache_religion_ceremony.htm
11. Storm, Berry (John T. clymenson), Thunder Gods Gold: The Fabulous True Story of America’s Lost Gold Mines, Southwest Publishing company 1945.
12. Ramses, John, Quest for Peralta Gold: A Hidden History of Red Mountain, 2007.
13. http://www.ghostradiox.com/qfg/P_intro. htm weiser, Kathy, The Lost Dutchman Mine, 2007.
14. http://www.legendsofamerica. com/az-lostdutchman.html
15. Hinchliffe, David, Legend of the Burns Ranch Treasure Troves, Pinal visitor newspaper, November 1998.
16. Hinchliffe, uavid, A Historical review of the Burns’ Treasures, Pinal visitor newspaper, December 1998.
17. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
18. Taylor, Emory, The Deity, threethirteens.com, 2007
19. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
20. http://www.mahopaclibrary.org/localhistory/chapter2.htm http://www.lorigislaridgenealogy.com/indians.htm]
21. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New World, Destiny Books, 2006. Pages 202 - 207.
22. ibid.
23. Ibid.
24. Ibid.
25.Lewis and clark History http://www.mrnussbaum.com/history/lcflash2.htm
26. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New world, Destiny Books, 2006. Pages 202 - 207.
27. Ibid.
28. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
29. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New World, Destiny Books, 2006. Pages 202 - 207.
30. goolge Earth
31. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New World, Destiny Books, 2006. Page 2.
32. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
33. Ibid.
34. Ibid.
35. conatser, Estee, The Sterling Legend: The Facts Behind The Lost Dutchman Mine, cem Guides Book co. 1993. pages 16 - 18.
36. Ibid
37. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 28.
38. Ibid.
39. Ibid.
40. Ibid.
41. Sheridan, Michael F., superstition Wilderness Guidebook, courier Graphics, 1978. Page 8.
42. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 29.
43.Ibid.
44. Ibid.
45. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 21.
46. Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This Story was Made, Dick Martin CO. rage 59.
47. Garman, Robert, Mystery Gold of The Superstitions, 1980. Page 89.
48. Ibid.
49. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 21.
50. Ibid. Page 22.
51. Ibid. Page 21.
52. Ibid. Page 22.
53. Ibid. Page 22.
54. Ibid. Page 22.
55. Ibid. Page 22.
56. Ibid. Page 22.
57. Ibid. Page 22.
59. Ibid. Page 38.
60. Holms, George Brownie, The True Story of the Lost Dutchman of the superstitions as told to my father, Dich Holmes, by Jacob Wolz on his death bed, unpublished but photographed by Robert E. Lee and published in his book The Lost Dutchman Mine: and
how the documentary movie of this story was made. see Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin Co. Pages 62 - 71.
61. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 22.
62. Henderson, Ralph, Chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
63. Crawford, Chuck, Champion Speaks against the New world order, crawford, 2002.
64. Taylor, tmory, The Deity, trilogy.threethirteens.com, 2007.
65. Hoims, George Brownie, The True Story of the Lost Dutchman of the Superstitions as told to my father, Dich Holmes, by Jacob wolz on his death bed, unpublished but photographed by Robert E. Lee and published in his book The Lost Dutchman Mine: and how the documentary movie of this story was made. See Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This Story was Made, Dick Martin Co. Pages 62 — 71.
67. Crawford, chuck, Champion Speaks against the New world order, crawford, 2002.
68. Taylor, Emory, The Deity, trilogy.threethirteens.com, 2007.
69. Holms, George Brownie, The True story of the Lost Dutchman of the Superstitions as told to my father, Dich Holmes, by Jacob wolz on his death bed, unpublished but photographed by Robert E. Lee and published in his book The Lost Dutchman Mine: and how the documentary movie of this story was made. See Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin Co. Pages 62 - 71.
70. Ibid.
71. Ibid.
72. Henderson, Ralph, Chuck Crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
Hi DanB I wanted to let you know this.
This story was published by Ann C. Rue at her website, which no longer exists, http://acr.ismywebsite.com
Julia Thomas and the missing Thundering Stones
By Ann C. Rue
I’m Ann C. Rue, originally from New York, I moved to Apache Junction, AZ in 1997. At a used book store i found a section on local stories. I’ve always been into hiking and bought the “Hiker’s Guide to the superstition wilderness”, by Jack carlson and Elizabeth Stewart. Thus began my adventures in the Superstitions. The book contains many short stories about the places and people, old prospectors, miners, and treasure hunters. I use the book as a guide. As I hike along the trails, I have the book with me to read, and imagine what it must have been like for those people on the hunt for gold and treasure.
one particular legend got my attention. when i was young my great granddad told me a cowboy and Indian story about treasure and a place called Black cross Butt. I always thought he’d made up the whole thing. The legend carlson and stewart tell is only a paragraph long summarizing what is written in “The sterling Legend” by Estee Conatser: “she also recounts a story about a large cache of gold supposedly guarded by a band of Apache known as the Black Legion. This gold is presumed to be in the Black cross Butt area, but the clues and treasure map are rather vague.” y great granddad never said what the treasure was, maybe it was gold, maybe it wasn’t.
According to an article by Ralph Henderson based on the findings of Emory Taylor and Rick Gwynne, in the German Grail legend the Grail is a black and purple quartz from which voices emanate, called the Holy stones. 1 From official documents we know Jacob waltz, the Dutchman, was German. 2 & 3 He was at least 29 years old when he migrated to America. 4 Thus, the Dutchman would have known the German Grail legends.
Apache Indians migrated to the southwest about 1000 AD. 5 It is unclear as to when they first arrived in the Superstition Mountains. 6 According to Tom Kollenborn, the name superstition Mountain came from white farmers in the 1860 who believed the pima Indians were superstitions, because of their fear of the mountain. 7 in the time period of the 1800s and the place of the Superstition Mountains there was no Thunder God in the Apache religion. 8 vet as we all know the legend of the Peralta - Dutchman gold, for lack of a better term, includes an Apache Thunder God. 9 - 11
Logically we can conclude that either the Thunder God was in the Superstitions before the Apache arrived, or was brought there without the Apache’s knowledge some time after they arrived. In either case the Thunder god was foreign to the Apache. Accordin9 to David Hincliffe the Apache, since the Thunder God was foreign to them, thought -it had something to do with white people. 12 & 13
At some point in time the Apache had to have discovered the Thunder God’s presence. This being the case -it logically follows that in their wonderings the Apache came across an area where the Thunder God made itself known to them. This area then become known as the Thunder Ground. As suggested by Henderson, and implied by chuck crawford to Taylor, the Holy Stones of the German Grail legend, from which thundering voices emanated, were hidden at the Thunder Ground. 14 & 15 As already pointed out, someone other than the Apaches did the hiding, and the Apaches suspected whites had done it. Taylor’s research as outlined by Henderson sited the Sinclair - Zeno expedition and colonist migrating west to the Superstitions as being the ones who hid the Holy stones in the Superstition Mountains. 16
According to American history, the Indians were originally friendly to the white settlers. 17 But for colonist of the Sinclair - Zeno settlement to have migrated from what is now New England, along the east coast, as far west as what is now Arizona in the 1300s, they must have been on exceptionally good terms with the Indians, as there were many different tribes along that vast distance, and some were hostile. Logically this su9gest marriage relations between the white settlers and the Indians. Following this lead I discovered white Indians. 18
The Mandan Indians of North Dakota are nearly white with light blue eyes and blond hair. 19 In 1738 a Frenchman, on an expedition from what is now Manitoba, canada, encountered these white Indians in what is now Maclean county, North Dakota, between Minot and Bismarck. 20 Along the Missouri River in 1804 the Lewis and clark expedition spent the winter with the Mandan. 21 In April 1805 the Lewis and Clark expedition headed west down the Missouri River. 22
According to author William Mann, the Lewis and Clark expedition crossed an ancient meridian of great importance to the Knight Templars. 23 This being 111 degrees 57 minutes west. 24 In Henderson’s article, the Holy Stones belong to the German Templars according to Taylor and Gwynne. 25 According to Mann, this important meridian runs down throu9h what is now Tempe, Arizona. 26 According to Goolge Earth GPS, superstition Mountain is at in degrees 24 minutes west. 27 According to Mann, an important location only had to be very near this important meridian, not exactly on it. 28 obviously the most likely candidate for having hid the Holy stones in the Superstitions are the white settlers from the Sinclair - Zeno expedition who married into the Indian tribes and migrated west, bringing with them the German Templar’s Holy Stones -- just as Taylor and Gwynne indicated.
According to Crawford, as relayed by Henderson, a person had to be a high spiritualist (an initiate of 72 degrees) to hear the thundering voices emanatinç from the Holy Stones. 29 Logically we can conclude that when the Apache, in their wonderings, came across the area where the Holy Stones were hidden, only the Indian Medicine Man, and maybe a couple highly spiritual braves or squaws could hear the thundering voice.
LoQically, the Apache would have searched the area for the source of the thundering voices. They would have discovered the thundering to be coming from a stockpile of black and purple quartz -- put there by the colonist from the Sinclair - zeno expedition. it’s likely they also discovered a sizable gold vain, as this is part of the legends. At this point in time the gold vain was probably of no particular importance to the Apache.
According to Taylor and Gwynne the Apache could not understand the thundering. 30 it was in a foreign language they had never heard before. 31 Given the Apache nature they most likely held the thundering stones with great reverence. The area itself, like the gold vain, was likely of no importance; after all, the thundering stones could simply be moved to a new hiding place if necessary.
There is no question Mexican prospectors operated in the Superstitions and the surrounding area. 32 They located precious metal deposits and mined them. 33 Our story is not dependent on a Peralta expedition into the Superstitions. So it doesn’t matter if they did or if they didn’t undertake such an expedition.
Legend has it when Waltz first arrived in Phoenix in 1875 he was accompanied bi’ an Apache squaw. 34 After being absent for about two weeks, they returned with some S70,000 in gold, and the Dutchman (Waltz) had an arrow wound in his left shoulder. 35 Within hours of their return Apaches raided Phoenix, attempting to kill Waltz, and actually capturing the squaw and cutting her tongue out before the town folk drove them off. 36 Supposedly this was revenge for taking the Dutchman to the Thunder Ground. 37
It’s only natural that the Dutchman, who knew the German Grail legends, would have wanted to know why an area was called the Thunder Ground, and to see the thundering stones. Lo9ically, since the thundering stones are part amethyst, and possibly German Grail relics, the Dutchman would have taken some of them along with all the gold he could carry.
An attempt to regain the missing thundering stones was more likely the motive behind the Apache attacking Phoenix. cutting out the squaw’s tongue was most likely for having told the Dutchman about the thundering stones. she could have taken him to the Thunder Ground, shown him the gold vain and said nothing about the thundering stones. After all, the thundering stones could simply be moved to a new location if necessary.
Having failed in their first attempt to regain the missing thundering stones, the Apache had time to think it thru. All they needed to do was move the remaining thundering stones to a new location, and keep a watch for the Dutchman. It was common practice for old prospectors to prepare for the time they could no longer physically endure trips deep into the rugged Superstitions. What they did was hid caches in the foothills so late in life it was an easy task for them to get their gold. 38 From many decades of keeping watch on prospectors, the Apaches would have known this.
since the Dutchman was at the age where he would be hiding cashes, the Apache would have watched and followed him to his caches, and waited for him to depart, so they could then check for the missing thundering stones. This isn’t to say the Dutchman got a free pass because the Apache wanted to follow him. The Dutchman would have gotten suspicious if all of a sudden the Apaches left him alone. so he got his fair share of harassment, but they had no intension of killing him until they regained the missing thundering stones.
Accordin9 to Michael sheridan, the Dutchman is reported to have hidden three caches of gold in the vicinity of weaver’s Needle.” 39 in 1877 the Dutchman took Jacob Wisner as a partner. 40 For the Apaches this could not stand because the Dutchman would never allow his partner to know the locations of his secret caches, which means he would not go to them as along as he had a partner. in order for them to follow him to his caches, the indians had to do away with the Dutchman’s partner. In 1878, conveniently when the Dutchman was away from camp and wisner was alone, the Apaches attacked, murdering wisner, staking him to the ground, and setting him on fire. 41
From 1881 - 1889, when the Dutchman was in his 70s and early 80s, the Dutchman made many trips to his mine, and a lot of people tried to follow him, but he always eluded them. 42 Didn’t you ever wonder how the Dutchman managed to elude all those people said to have followed him in attempting to discover the location of the mine? Unknown to him, the Dutchman probably had plenty of assistance from the Indians. No one was going to do away with the Dutchman until they regained the missing thundering stones.
in February 1891, when the Dutchman was 83, a flood struck Phoenix, and the Dutchman’s home fell in, and he survived by climbing a tree. 43 - 45 Partially paralyzed, he was rescued by Rhinehart Petrasch and taken to the home of Julia Thomas. 46 - 47 On his deathbed he drew a map to his mine and instructed Julia and Petrasch to get a cache from his home. 48
The Dutchman died October 8, 1891 at Julia’s home in the presence of Julia, Petrasch, Mr. carrs, and Albert schaffer. 49 when the Dutchman was buried Julia did not attend, and when Petrasch and the others returned from the funeral Julia said the place had been broke into when she was out, and the map and gold were missing.50
Many years later it was learned that shortly after the Dutchman’s death forty-eight pounds of gold was shipped to the san Francisco Mint by R. J. Holmes at the direction of )ulia Thomas. 5lThe wells Fargo Co delivered $12,288 to Holmes in the presence of Julia. 52 The 1890 Phoenix city directory listed Julia conducting a boarding house on washington Street, and living at Jackson and Mohave. 53 After searching for the mine many times she give up searching and sold copies of the map for $7.00 each. 54
In 1892 she was living at the same address. 55 She was also practicin9 strange religious rituals. 56 By 1908, she had married Albert Schaffer, a religious fanatic, and, while living at 137 west Jackson Street, she and her husband began having visions and communing with spirits, and making predictions about the End Times, which they yelled from the roof top of their home until the authorities made them stop. 57 - 58 This is very, very important. In Henderson’s article and the Crawford biography, Crawford came in contact with one of the thundering stones when he was at the old Thunder Ground, and he too began communing with spirits and receiving visions which were religious in nature, and dealt with the End Times. 59
Instead of yelling from his roof top like Julia Thomas did, Crawford made a video of himself tellin9 of his communing with God, and his visions of the End Times. 60 Taylor transcribed this tape and published it in full in book three of the Crawford biography, which he calls “The Deity.” 61 You can read it at http://trilogy.threethi rteens.com/trilogywebsites/Theoeity/index. html. clearly, the same thing happened to Julia Thomas and chuck crawford. They came into contact with the thundering stones and began having communions with high spirits and religious visions of the future. It didn’t stop there. Julia’s husband began to think he was the true son of God and Crawford thought he was the messenger of God. 62 & 64 This means at least some of the missing thundering stones the Apaches were looking for where with the Dutchman’s gold cache at his home in Phoenix. obviously, these missing thundering stones fell into Julia Thomas’ possession.
What became of the missing thunderinç stones? Julia and her husband moved from phoenix to the san Domingo wash in wickenburg where they carried on their fanatical religious rites and eventually died. 65 of course everyone is blinded by gold. so the only thing anyone thought of value was a necklace of gold nuggets valued then at nearly a thousand dollars. 66 Her cult members are said to have buried it with her. 67 Most likely, some cult member who was not a high spiritualist, for whom the thundering stones were silent, ended up with the missing thundering stones. where they went from there is anybodies guess.
As for my great granddad, did I fail to mention that in his young, oat sewing days he lived for awhile in the wickenburg area where he hunted 9old. This was when he was in his twenties, which was in the early 1900s, when Julia Thomas lived there. My great granddad was in wiqi. He never talked about it. In 1922 he stayed the night in wickenburg on his journey to New York, where he met and married my great grandmother. That night he met what he said was a crazy cult woman. she sold him two rings. She called them the whispering rings. Each had a secret compartment. In one was black basalt. In the other was amethyst. she said one was owned by Julia and the other by her husband, and when you bring them together you can hear them whispering to each other. The crazy cult woman got all bug-eyed like in a trance when she brought the rings together. But my great granddad couldn’t hear the whisperings. He thought she was just trying to scam him out of $5 dollars. But he was young and single, and sewing his oats, so he bought the rings. However, when he woke in the morning she and the rings were gone.
what became of the stockpile of thundering stones the Apaches found in the superstitions? obviously they moved them from the old Thunder Ground to a new one. Crawford found only one thundering stone when he had his experience at the old Thunder Ground. 68 But where was the stockpile of thundering stones moved to? who knows. Personally, I believe the Apaches moved the stockpile of thundering stones to the Black cross Butt area where they were 9uarded by the Black Legion. Everybody is so blinded by their lust for gold they don t realize it’s the thundering stones the Black Legion was guarding, or maybe I just want to believe my great granddad’s cowboy and Indian story about treasure at Black cross Butt is true. But the facts do fit, and it is unmistakable what happened to both Julia and crawford after they came into contact with the thundering stones some eighty years apart.
Please visit me at http://acr.ismywebsite.com . If you have a story to tell I have a story forum on each page where you can post it. Or you can email me at
acr@ac r. i smywebsi te. com
1. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
2. Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin co. Page 57 - 60.
3. Kollenborn, Tom, The Lost Dutchman’s Mine, Apache Junction Public Library, 2009.
4. http://www.ajpl .org/aj/superstition/ldm.htm
5. Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And HOW The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin co. Page 57.
6. cordell, Linda 5. Ancient Pueblo Peoples. St. Remy Press and Smithsonian Institution, 1994. ISBN 0-89599-038-5.
7.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache
8. Ibid 5.
9. Kollenborn, Tom, THE LOST DUTcHMAN’S MINE, Apache Junction Public Library, 2009.
10. http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/index.htm http://www.aaanativearts.com/apache/apache_religion_ceremony.htm
11. Storm, Berry (John T. clymenson), Thunder Gods Gold: The Fabulous True Story of America’s Lost Gold Mines, Southwest Publishing company 1945.
12. Ramses, John, Quest for Peralta Gold: A Hidden History of Red Mountain, 2007.
13. http://www.ghostradiox.com/qfg/P_intro. htm weiser, Kathy, The Lost Dutchman Mine, 2007.
14. http://www.legendsofamerica. com/az-lostdutchman.html
15. Hinchliffe, David, Legend of the Burns Ranch Treasure Troves, Pinal visitor newspaper, November 1998.
16. Hinchliffe, uavid, A Historical review of the Burns’ Treasures, Pinal visitor newspaper, December 1998.
17. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
18. Taylor, Emory, The Deity, threethirteens.com, 2007
19. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
20. http://www.mahopaclibrary.org/localhistory/chapter2.htm http://www.lorigislaridgenealogy.com/indians.htm]
21. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New World, Destiny Books, 2006. Pages 202 - 207.
22. ibid.
23. Ibid.
24. Ibid.
25.Lewis and clark History http://www.mrnussbaum.com/history/lcflash2.htm
26. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New world, Destiny Books, 2006. Pages 202 - 207.
27. Ibid.
28. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
29. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New World, Destiny Books, 2006. Pages 202 - 207.
30. goolge Earth
31. Mann, William, The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of The New World, Destiny Books, 2006. Page 2.
32. Henderson, Ralph, chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
33. Ibid.
34. Ibid.
35. conatser, Estee, The Sterling Legend: The Facts Behind The Lost Dutchman Mine, cem Guides Book co. 1993. pages 16 - 18.
36. Ibid
37. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 28.
38. Ibid.
39. Ibid.
40. Ibid.
41. Sheridan, Michael F., superstition Wilderness Guidebook, courier Graphics, 1978. Page 8.
42. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 29.
43.Ibid.
44. Ibid.
45. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 21.
46. Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This Story was Made, Dick Martin CO. rage 59.
47. Garman, Robert, Mystery Gold of The Superstitions, 1980. Page 89.
48. Ibid.
49. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 21.
50. Ibid. Page 22.
51. Ibid. Page 21.
52. Ibid. Page 22.
53. Ibid. Page 22.
54. Ibid. Page 22.
55. Ibid. Page 22.
56. Ibid. Page 22.
57. Ibid. Page 22.
59. Ibid. Page 38.
60. Holms, George Brownie, The True Story of the Lost Dutchman of the superstitions as told to my father, Dich Holmes, by Jacob Wolz on his death bed, unpublished but photographed by Robert E. Lee and published in his book The Lost Dutchman Mine: and
how the documentary movie of this story was made. see Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin Co. Pages 62 - 71.
61. Barnard, Barney, Superstition Mountain and the famed Dutchman’s Lost Mine, 1964. Page 22.
62. Henderson, Ralph, Chuck crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
63. Crawford, Chuck, Champion Speaks against the New world order, crawford, 2002.
64. Taylor, tmory, The Deity, trilogy.threethirteens.com, 2007.
65. Hoims, George Brownie, The True Story of the Lost Dutchman of the Superstitions as told to my father, Dich Holmes, by Jacob wolz on his death bed, unpublished but photographed by Robert E. Lee and published in his book The Lost Dutchman Mine: and how the documentary movie of this story was made. See Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This Story was Made, Dick Martin Co. Pages 62 — 71.
67. Crawford, chuck, Champion Speaks against the New world order, crawford, 2002.
68. Taylor, Emory, The Deity, trilogy.threethirteens.com, 2007.
69. Holms, George Brownie, The True story of the Lost Dutchman of the Superstitions as told to my father, Dich Holmes, by Jacob wolz on his death bed, unpublished but photographed by Robert E. Lee and published in his book The Lost Dutchman Mine: and how the documentary movie of this story was made. See Lee, Robert E., The Lost Dutchman Mine: And How The Documentary Movie of This story was Made, Dick Martin Co. Pages 62 - 71.
70. Ibid.
71. Ibid.
72. Henderson, Ralph, Chuck Crawford and the Holy Grail, Territorial News, August 2009.
