Dutch Shultz Catskills cipher treasure map

[Ramiro valdez]

A cipher map that has lasted the test of time can only be attributed to the creator. Dutch Shultz made an impressive Catskills cipher map that has lasted the test of time. The map can only lead us to the chosen location. The treasure may or may not be there, but that is just a secondary though to finding the location. Everything you see, everything you hear, and everything you know will help you figure out the the map. They are made with symbolic symbols as clues. The maps themselves will describe a large area first followed by a smaller general area before leading you into the immediate location. In this case the map represents the large area in question and the large circle represents the general area, but in order to find the immediate one you must first identify the symbolic key or clue that will lead you into the immediate location. This cipher map has a key that will help you find the location. Can anyone tell me what the key is on the map? If you identify what you think is the key I will let you know if your right. I give everyone sufficient time to point out the key before I post it and talk about it.

 

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[Old Bookaroo]

I recall reading that plant has been recovered.

Right here on TN:

Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure (treasurenet.com)


Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Well, I really thank you for your honest, reply. An honest man cannot say more than what he doesn’t know. I myself like to read to increase my historical knowledge and sometimes I bare down on those that cross my path of interest such as the Dutchman. Finding lost pieces of information will add to one’s specific life story which in turn will increase his historical record. In some cases it can lead to the fact that a treasure has been recovered by identifying the actual place of where the treasure was first buried. Most people will not believe a read, no offense, they want evidence and look for more truth until satisfied. Pieces of new information inspire people in need of satisfaction. I love history, I love the mystery, I love the hunt and most of all I love the challenge of the game of clues that will identify truth primarily. Finding the treasure will always be a secondary though for me. Everyone has a dead end road which they will find as soon as they are satisfied, including my self. The end of the road for me will come as soon as I’m done explaining Dutch Shultz cipher treasure map which I will do for those who are looking for more information pertaining to the map. I thank you again. I hope to find time down the road to go over my library so I can send you the books that I might not use. Thanks again.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

The Dutch Shultz Catskills cipher map covers a large area unlike the original Dutchman’s gold mine stone treasure map which was only a five by four mile area, before Julia Thomas decided to clutter the map with monumental structure such as weaver’s needle creating the illusion of a 50 by 40 mile map adding to the confusion which has deceive many for years in trying to locate the Dutchman’s gold mine. Dutch Shultz intentionally cluttered his map to help him hide the symbolic clues that would lead you into the immediate area of the treasure. His map reminds me of the treasure island map of the treasure island book. The X is a common symbol that is used to marks the spot of where a treasure is buried on a map. The cross is another symbol use in the same manner which also may carry the meaning of a Christian cause. Shultz’s map carries a lot of crosses or crossings which helped him in hiding the symbolic clues that will lead you to the treasure. Throughout history most maps carried important information pertaining to the map on its outer borders. The Dutchman’s stone cipher map had an exploded view of a section of the Salt river and the word north in the lower border of the map to give the individual a starting point towards the general area. Once in the general area you would look for the immediate symbolic clue which is found on the top border of the map. The symbol was a face that would help you fine the immediate are of the mine. The outside borders of a map is always a good place to start when trying to find clues. The Lue map is a crazy puzzle of a cipher map and the creator went to town on this one. The Lue map can pass as a Pink Floyd album cover, just saying. The Lue map also has the same pattern as having several clues on its borders. The only problem to all three maps is having the original map that contains everything that you need to finish the job. The map that I posted is not the whole map and therefore you will not find the clues. The map that I’m posting below does have the clues you are looking for. If you can decipher the clues on the right hand lower section, then you could be the first one to get to the spot. If you don’t understand what it means then you must ask me. It’s not hard to decipher the meaning of the circle that will lead you to the general area. The meaning of the cross that you can find in the middle of the large circle, which represents a Christian cause or if you know how to follow the angle of direction from the corner crossing towards the back of the church as the dot indicates on the map then you should be on your way to finding the spot. All three symbolic symbols in the same area of the map! Amazing! Excellent work in hiding the clues. I would not spend my time looking any where else. I believe in the map, I believe in the clues and for those who feel the same way, then I wish you all a happy hunting trip. I believe that Shultz hid the treasure the first night in Phoenicia and the only person he had to blind, at the dinner, was his bodyguard which should not have been hard to do. The rest of the time he spend in the town was to confuse and mislead everyone who saw him. This is the ending for me on the whereabouts of Dutch Shultz buried treasure. It’s a good time for me to move on to the next treasure.

 

[Citiboy289]

Since I frequented that area and the town of Phonecia Your post is interesting Please search past posts on this topic. Much information is included. Anyone searching the river itself. If you get to the rapids by the rock dam and find a Swiss Military Watch with a black face. Please let me know. I lost it there in1995.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Dutch Shultz Catskills cipher original map is an interesting subject which most don’t understand. It is a cipher map that will lead you to the area of where he buried the treasure. He made this map by studying other historical record maps. Like in most maps the hidden information is located in the upper or lower edges. The symbolic clues on this map are located on the lower right section of the map. There are three symbols which are a circle with a cross and a point mark. The descriptive symbolic meaning describes the large circle in the center of the map to be the area of focus. The cross symbolizes a cross road or a cross that sits slightly of north exactly the way the town roads are angle which you will find close to the center of the large circle. This cross symbol is used to define two clues on this map. The first is to find the cross road and the second is to find the church which is located on this cross road. The point mark symbol will define the area of the cross where the church is located as well as the spot where Dutch buried the treasure. The area of concern is not that big to investigate and if you know your angle of direction you shouldn’t have a problem locating the spot where the treasure was initially buried. It’s what I do, I decipher treasure maps.

 

[kudo623]

Apparently some of Schultz' treasure was found "near the creek" in the area of Lulu's map--two gold coins (1903). Here is the article. Searching for gangster Dutch Schultz's gold (nypost.com) and the gold coin. US minted two version of these coins, one in 1795-1933 and the other from 1838-1907. The difference is the "in God We Trust" was on the latter. So the coin they found if this is that pictured is the 1838-1907 version. Assuming the box was locked when initially interred, this would lead one to speculate that the box seal had been compromised at some point in time?

 

[Crow]

Gidday amigos

Perhaps this thread will be of some help for those wishing to research the story further?

Crow

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...ore-than-50-million-dollars-x-marks-spot.html

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Thanks Crow! For the added information concerning Dutch’s treasure. Every little bit helps for those who consider this to be an open case. There is not enough information to agree that the treasure has been found. It’s hard to believe anyone who say they have found it without hard evidence. Therefore it’s good to keep searching in defining what really happened to his treasure, this should be everyone’s concern who believe the treasure has not been found. I’m sure there is a lot of people who feel this way and therefore we must keep an open mind when new things are discovered or said. Learning to use common sense properly is the best clues I can give to another treasure hunter. Common sense tells me that there is a small possibility that someone found the treasure by mistake. But common sense also tells me that Dutch had the intelligence and ability to hide the treasure properly where no one would dare to look to include misleading everyone like a good pirate which is why he created a map leading to the common fact that he told no one of the exact location of the buried treasure. How did he do this? Well, most are not born with the knowledge of stealing and hiding treasures. In fact, most learn the trade from someone else’s life history. History will teach you what a pirate did or could have done. Out of the many unfounded treasure the smaller ones would require one man to do the job right and he would keep it to himself. There has been bigger treasure buried by more than one man and at the end of the job only one man new of its location, figure that?

 

[kudo623]

Apparently Dutch Schultz' 16 year old apprentice Billy Bathgate, also the name of a book written by EL Doctorow, was in the hospital room and handwrote about 3/4 of Schultz' deathbed confession ramblings from
between 4 and 6pm. Purportedly there are some ramblings not taken down in the stenographer's version, according to Billy's handwritten notes.

 

[Crow]

Apparently Dutch Schultz' 16 year old apprentice Billy Bathgate, also the name of a book written by EL Doctorow, was in the hospital room and handwrote about 3/4 of Schultz' deathbed confession ramblings from
between 4 and 6pm. Purportedly there are some ramblings not taken down in the stenographer's version, according to Billy's handwritten notes.

Gidday Kudo623

Thank for the interesting post. However it is one of the pitfalls of research is coming across books that is blend of fact and fiction.

Author E. L. Doctorow, was the author of dozens of novels, many of which combined fictional characters and real people in a historical context.

Billy is a fictional character, at least four of the other characters in the book and film were real people. ...

Billy Bathgate is a 1989 novel by author E. L. Doctorow that won the 1989 National Book Critics Circle award for fiction for 1990,the 1990 PEN/Faulkner Award for Fiction,the 1990 William Dean Howells Medal, and was the runner-up for the 1990 Pulitzer Prize and the 1989 National Book Award.


A film based on the novel was released in 1991 to very mixed reviews.I think Dustin Hoffman was in it?

So any story of a fictional 16 year gangster hiding behind a curtain taking notes is a work of fiction.

You can find the real notes of events in the FBI archives although some parts are blacked out.

Crow

 

[kudo623]

Gidday Kudo623

Thank for the interesting post. However it is one of the pitfalls of research is coming across books that is blend of fact and fiction.

Author E. L. Doctorow, was the author of dozens of novels, many of which combined fictional characters and real people in a historical context.

Billy is a fictional character, at least four of the other characters in the book and film were real people. ...

Billy Bathgate is a 1989 novel by author E. L. Doctorow that won the 1989 National Book Critics Circle award for fiction for 1990,the 1990 PEN/Faulkner Award for Fiction,the 1990 William Dean Howells Medal, and was the runner-up for the 1990 Pulitzer Prize and the 1989 National Book Award.


A film based on the novel was released in 1991 to very mixed reviews.I think Dustin Hoffman was in it?

So any story of a fictional 16 year gangster hiding behind a curtain taking notes is a work of fiction.

You can find the real notes of events in the FBI archives although some parts are blacked out.

Crow

Thanks Crow for the clarification. I saw that it was a novel, but the article seemed to substantiate the character? Very strange.
I kind of bit into this also because I heard of other quotes from Shultz that weren't in the transcript, like,
"I wonder who owns them woods, I wonder if he knows what's buried in them?"
Or is this also fiction?

 

[KANACKI]

Hola amigos

One of the burning questions most people side step is The origins of the Dutch Schultz treasure legend especially the association with Phoenicia New York. Where did it come from?

Did a member of the Dutch Schultz mob mentioned his 3 foot by 2 foot by foot and a half steel treasure box in a magazine article or newspaper article in the late 1930s and speculated he might have buried it someplace?

But as far as I am aware there was no such article?

The earliest reference I can find to Schultz's supposed car ride to bury the treasure around Phoenicia with his bodyguard was in the 1968 book by Emil Schumacher entitled, Lost Treasures and How to Find Them? But Schumacker does not list his sources and is deceased and there are some serious factual problems with his account.

Does anyone know of written sources, newspaper or magazine articles, or other authoritative information concerning the treasure that pre-dates 1968? My guess I will get silence on that one.

So far I have not been able to find any written stories of Dutch Schultz burying treasure before 1968 Most other accounts of the treasure post date the Schumacker version and seem to be based on it.

That amigos rings alarm bells, that maybe the who story of Dutch Schultz treasure was fabrication by a treasure book author flogging another treasure hunting book?

Kanacki

 

[Crow]

Gidday Kanacki Amigo

Congrats being a grandad again.

There is another book on the Life of Dutch Schultz below printed in 1968 by Ted Addy.

Many questions unanswered.... As far as I am aware there was no stories of buried treasure before 1968. However there was speculation about where is his money was.

Crow

 

[kudo623]

In another thread Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure

A fellow Treasure hunter GaBnn3 did a 3 year research and believes he found the original Cache site. He found the tree with a 1934 carved in it and a hole where the box was had a tree growing out of it. He suspects that Shapiro, with the aid of the Lulu map, recovered it.

 

[Crow]

Giday Kudo

GABNN3 gave some interesting comments years ago which may be correct or may not?

There was a 3 year period between the murder of Schultz. On October 23, 1935, In October, 1936, Shapiro and Buchalter were convicted under the terms of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and were both sentenced to two years in Sing Sing Prison.

After his conviction, Shapiro went into hiding for a year. However, he finally turned himself in to Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agents on April 14, 1938 and was sent to prison. On May 5, 1944, Shapiro was convicted of conspiracy and extortion and sentenced to 15 years to life in prison. Shapiro died June 9, 1947.

If he had removed this alleged treasure he never got to enjoy it?

He had a 3 year period to find Schultz alleged money? If he had done so he could of fled and not just turn himself in? That to me suggests he had no money to flee with as he could never expect to get a short sentence for his crimes? So for me that points to him never finding the alleged loot or he never looked to begin with?

Crow

 

[releventchair]

Gurrah may have not found "the Schultz money" , and may well not have been concerned about it.
He did have a chance to get his affairs in order. And his family seemed to do alright with his garment industry holdings. Somehow those were not confiscated.....

https://sixforfive.blogspot.com/2008/06/getta-outta-here.html

The garment industry , now there was a lot goin on there. The authorities knew. But , just wanted certain folks off the streets , vs getting attention focused on individuals in law enforcement/courts due to forfeitures? Making them mob targets perhaps. (?)

https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/the-fur-dressers-case

 

[releventchair]

Two men buried a safe/box. Allegedly.
Two knew then , it's whereabouts.
Considering the nature of the business , did anyone else know? Would anyone else knowing have insured it's recoverability should the two who buried it get whacked or incarcerated? A not too unreal possibility.

Not putting wealth in a family members or underlings hands or in thier knowledge , would protect them from being forced to divulge. At the cost of losing the wealth's whereabouts insurance...

The question for me then is , would I tell someone where such a cache was? And if so who?
Where I wanted it to end up would factor.
How Dutch and his man felt , I don't know.
But I would suspect family would be desired to have access to it.

"Lulu" does not have a big trail of info about him.
He too did have family though.

 

[Crow]

Two men buried a safe/box. Allegedly.
Two knew then , it's whereabouts.
Considering the nature of the business , did anyone else know? Would anyone else knowing have insured it's recoverability should the two who buried it get whacked or incarcerated? A not too unreal possibility.

Not putting wealth in a family members or underlings hands or in thier knowledge , would protect them from being forced to divulge. At the cost of losing the wealth's whereabouts insurance...

The question for me then is , would I tell someone where such a cache was? And if so who?
Where I wanted it to end up would factor.
How Dutch and his man felt , I don't know.
But I would suspect family would be desired to have access to it.

"Lulu" does not have a big trail of info about him.
He too did have family though.

Gidday releventchair

Indeed that is a possible source of further research. But dead men killed at the same times as Dutch keep their secrets well.

You ask some very good questions. For example would Dutch Schultz really trust any of his henchmen with that alleged secret? The world they inhabited was in essence like a game of thrones. Even the most loyal henchmen could be conspiring against you. There are no real friendships rather alliances of convenience. And in the right situation can change where you become expendable like Schultz did.

There is another source who might be the source of the Dutch Schultz treasure legend Amigo one who years later ended up dead.

Crow

 

[KANACKI]

Two men buried a safe/box. Allegedly.
Two knew then , it's whereabouts.
Considering the nature of the business , did anyone else know? Would anyone else knowing have insured it's recoverability should the two who buried it get whacked or incarcerated? A not too unreal possibility.

Not putting wealth in a family members or underlings hands or in thier knowledge , would protect them from being forced to divulge. At the cost of losing the wealth's whereabouts insurance...

The question for me then is , would I tell someone where such a cache was? And if so who?
Where I wanted it to end up would factor.
How Dutch and his man felt , I don't know.
But I would suspect family would be desired to have access to it.

"Lulu" does not have a big trail of info about him.
He too did have family though.

View attachment 1934793

Hola Amigo

Good questions I think we are dealing with smoke and mirrors with Dutch Schultz story? Perhaps the whole treasure story was ruse?

Kanacki