Drywasher Ideas

[Desertphile]

In a private message I said I will think about the subject, and add suggestions tomorrow.

 

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[Desertphile]

Dry washer ideas

Howdy “Fabrication Specialists.” The following are a few of my ideas regarding a dry washer: other people of course will not agree with me.

1) I am very happy to pay more money for a well-built dry washer instead of paying less for a dry washer that is poorly built, and/or poorly engineered.

2) It seems very unlikely to me that most customers will back pack a dry washer in to a remote area; I suspect most will take an automobile. To design and build a dry washer for back packing would therefore not make economical sense; I would think a back pack model would have to be too light weight, and therefore too flimsy, to function well.

The dry washer I would like to own would have the following items:

3) Legs and struts would be made out of angle aluminum: not flat, not hollow square stock. One side could be 2 inches, and the other half an inch.

4) The bottom of the two “rear” legs would have aluminum skids, not wheels, in the shape of an oblate “U” so that it can be dragged around short distances.

5) Legs and struts would have adjustment holes all the way across; most dry washers I have seen have three holes at the top where the hopper angle is adjusted, and three holes at the bottom to adjust the angle of the riffle board. *BAD!* I want to adjust the machine based upon the material I am processing and the environment upon which the machine sits--- and not be limited by holes that damn well should be there but are not.

6) The entire assembly should break down into sub assemblies, using nuts and bolts and washers and lock washers--- not thumb screws, not set screws, not spring-loaded latches, not roll pins, etc. The device should be shipped fully assembled, but I want the option to take it apart for storing, for hauling, and for cleaning. Anyone too stupid to remember how to put it back together is probably too stupid to work the machine.

7) I find that a bellows dry washer is much nicer to work with than a blower from some external infernal noise-making machine.

8) The bellows material damn well ought to last ten years at least. It should also be removable so that the bellows can be replaced as a “consumable” when necessary.

9) The bellows should force air through several oblong slots on the bottom of the air chamber---- *NOT* through one large hole. With just a large hole, the flapper valve material tends to bowl / bow, and not seat and seal properly after a few hours of use in a warm desert environment.

10) The flapper valve should be of thick Neoprene, and weighted slightly so that it achieves a good seal when the bellows compresses. I modified the Keene dry washer by putting a thin steel plate on the flapper valve, and that increased upward-moving air flow through the riffle board; the weight did not hinder air intake as the bellows expanded, because dirt on the riffle board gives enough of a seal to open the flapper valve.

11) The bellows mechanism should have a counter weight equal to the force applied by the weight of the bellows, so that the work performed compressing the bellows equals the work performed to expand it. W=M*A*D and if done properly, the electric motor will last much longer than otherwise, and use vastly less energy. The Keene dry washer for example uses power to both compress and expand the bellows, with additional help from gravity, using a mechanism that is (1) inelegant, (2) noisy, and (3) ridiculously inefficient.

12) The bellows should be push-rod driven--- not belt driven. Put a small fly wheel (6 or 8 inches in diameter) on the electric motor, put a series of holes on the fly wheel going from the center outward to the edge, and then have an adjustable-placement bushing that the push rod attaches to. The motor’s speed will remain the same RPM, but the user can attach the push rod to one of the several holes on the fly wheel and that will adjust the speed that the bellows will cycle through and well as air volume per cycle. A carbide fitting on the push rod, and carbide inserts in the flywheel holes, will last for decades of use, but they can also be offered as a “consumable” for sale.

I’ll think of more suggestions later.

 

[Fabrication Specialists]

Dry washer ideas

Howdy “Fabrication Specialists.” The following are a few of my ideas regarding a dry washer: other people of course will not agree with me.

1) I am very happy to pay more money for a well-built dry washer instead of paying less for a dry washer that is poorly built, and/or poorly engineered.

2) It seems very unlikely to me that most customers will back pack a dry washer in to a remote area; I suspect most will take an automobile. To design and build a dry washer for back packing would therefore not make economical sense; I would think a back pack model would have to be too light weight, and therefore too flimsy, to function well.

The dry washer I would like to own would have the following items:

3) Legs and struts would be made out of angle aluminum: not flat, not hollow square stock. One side could be 2 inches, and the other half an inch.

4) The bottom of the two “rear” legs would have aluminum skids, not wheels, in the shape of an oblate “U” so that it can be dragged around short distances.

5) Legs and struts would have adjustment holes all the way across; most dry washers I have seen have three holes at the top where the hopper angle is adjusted, and three holes at the bottom to adjust the angle of the riffle board. *BAD!* I want to adjust the machine based upon the material I am processing and the environment upon which the machine sits--- and not be limited by holes that damn well should be there but are not.

6) The entire assembly should break down into sub assemblies, using nuts and bolts and washers and lock washers--- not thumb screws, not set screws, not spring-loaded latches, not roll pins, etc. The device should be shipped fully assembled, but I want the option to take it apart for storing, for hauling, and for cleaning. Anyone too stupid to remember how to put it back together is probably too stupid to work the machine.

7) I find that a bellows dry washer is much nicer to work with than a blower from some external infernal noise-making machine.

8) The bellows material damn well ought to last ten years at least. It should also be removable so that the bellows can be replaced as a “consumable” when necessary.

9) The bellows should force air through several oblong slots on the bottom of the air chamber---- *NOT* through one large hole. With just a large hole, the flapper valve material tends to bowl / bow, and not seat and seal properly after a few hours of use in a warm desert environment.

10) The flapper valve should be of thick Neoprene, and weighted slightly so that it achieves a good seal when the bellows compresses. I modified the Keene dry washer by putting a thin steel plate on the flapper valve, and that increased upward-moving air flow through the riffle board; the weight did not hinder air intake as the bellows expanded, because dirt on the riffle board gives enough of a seal to open the flapper valve.

11) The bellows mechanism should have a counter weight equal to the force applied by the weight of the bellows, so that the work performed compressing the bellows equals the work performed to expand it. W=M*A*D and if done properly, the electric motor will last much longer than otherwise, and use vastly less energy. The Keene dry washer for example uses power to both compress and expand the bellows, with additional help from gravity, using a mechanism that is (1) inelegant, (2) noisy, and (3) ridiculously inefficient.

12) The bellows should be push-rod driven--- not belt driven. Put a small fly wheel (6 or 8 inches in diameter) on the electric motor, put a series of holes on the fly wheel going from the center outward to the edge, and then have an adjustable-placement bushing that the push rod attaches to. The motor’s speed will remain the same RPM, but the user can attach the push rod to one of the several holes on the fly wheel and that will adjust the speed that the bellows will cycle through and well as air volume per cycle. A carbide fitting on the push rod, and carbide inserts in the flywheel holes, will last for decades of use, but they can also be offered as a “consumable” for sale.

I’ll think of more suggestions later.

Thank you very much for your ideas, insights and suggestions. Our hand crank/12 volt model does currently have a counterweight on the rotating assembly used to move the bellows. This does make a HUGE difference in minimizing effort when the assembly is rotating on both your arm and the motor. We actually spent a good amount of time doing calculations and experiments with the actual amount of weight used to counter the weight of the bellows while in operation. This actually makes a smoother operating unit and will make arms and motors last longer, since once you get it rotating it "wants" to keep moving.

Thanks much and if anything else comes to mind please let me know. I truly want to produce a high quality product.
Chris

 

[Goldhunterwes]

Fabrication specialist you sound like one of a small # of those who want to make quality products, thank you one day I hope to get one if they work well . That said I use a thompsons puffer with 12v electric motor or hand crank and it works well its 9 wide by 22 inch long the steel legs make it a little heavy for paking places but I manage. This is a medium machine and I haven't used any larger ones yet but here's my nit picks so far.

The one thing I hate is the fixed angle between hopper and riffle tray, I like to set them separately like on the blower model packwasher I also have.

My next mabye larger issue is hopper capacity when I'm digging harder dirt. The Thompson has a 3.5. Gal hopper so it goes through it in shorter time than I would like to as I make more frequent trips over to the machine to dump more dirt in the hopper and get less digging time in between.

Third the riffle tray needs to be easily cleaned out with minimal chance of spilling cons. This unit the riffles are attached to the cloth covered screen (flat expanded metal which works well for airflow and bearing the weight) but the 1 piece construction makes it harder to clean out and makes changing the cloth a huge task of drilling rivets to separate them.

Last would be an easy way to clean out bellow box of fine dust and gold that gets in there

My few thoughts

Wes

 

[elgatodelnoche]

As far as drywashers go, I have built hand cranked bellows units and blower operated units too. I have never built a battery operated bellows unit though. I can see how there would be a market for such a model. I do not mind the buzzing of a two cycle engine and think that you can have a muffin fan with a weighted blade for your blower drywasher. Computer fans are muffin fans, but not all muffin fans are computer fans. There is a higher class of muffin fans above the cheap plastic computer grade. The fans I employ all are metal housing and ball bearing movements. I have had the same fan in my main drywasher for over ten years now. You would be crazy to use a cheap plastic computer fan. Anyway I love both types of drywashers. A plus for the blower powered units though is they will dry damp dirt quicker than a bellows unit will.

Good Luck on your project Fabrication Specialists. I hope you sell a bunch of them.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Chris I'm liking your ideas. You do good work and your backpack design sound well thought out.

I'll offer this on the bigger model design:

BIG hopper and grizzly that won't back up when raw (unclassified) material is THROWN at it. If your machine falls over when I throw dirt at it I'll consider it a fail.

Bellows is my personal preference every time.

Please investigate making most of the moving parts internal to the bellows! It's been done before and the parts last so much longer and wear is cut way down. Nothing worse than a good drywasher that needs custom parts replaced on a regular basis. Easier to move when it's self contained too.

Despite the quality of the build on the Royals (It's great!) they made one big mistake. Those darn spring pin leg attachments. Great in the factory and sales room but a nightmare in the field. Close tolerance parts are always a bad idea in a dusty environment. The inevitable grit jams up the tubing and pins. I can see the day when the spring pin fails and the whole drywasher becomes an anchor in a place without a boat.

Please don't rivet or screw the air screen. Drywashers will always be modifying flow and volume for their particular situation and belief system and no matter how well you design your machine you WILL post them off if you frustrate their experimenting.

Please, please don't try to sell us your machine on that silly "electrostatic recovery" pitch. There is no need to shock folks to prove your machine is better. I know I will take flak for bringing this up but since there is NO evidence that a local different body charge attracts gold any better than say... dust and dirt I'm just going to have to let the stuff fly on that one. (Sorry Hoser - crank away if you must, I'll still respect you in the morning. )

Just one miners perspective. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[AzViper]

Chris I'm liking your ideas. You do good work and your backpack design sound well thought out.

I'll offer this on the bigger model design:

BIG hopper and grizzly that won't back up when raw (unclassified) material is THROWN at it. If your machine falls over when I throw dirt at it I'll consider it a fail.

Bellows is my personal preference every time.

Please investigate making most of the moving parts internal to the bellows! It's been done before and the parts last so much longer and wear is cut way down. Nothing worse than a good drywasher that needs custom parts replaced on a regular basis. Easier to move when it's self contained too.

Despite the quality of the build on the Royals (It's great!) they made one big mistake. Those darn spring pin leg attachments. Great in the factory and sales room but a nightmare in the field. Close tolerance parts are always a bad idea in a dusty environment. The inevitable grit jams up the tubing and pins. I can see the day when the spring pin fails and the whole drywasher becomes an anchor in a place without a boat.

Please don't rivet or screw the air screen. Drywashers will always be modifying flow and volume for their particular situation and belief system and no matter how well you design your machine you WILL post them off if you frustrate their experimenting.

Please, please don't try to sell us your machine on that silly "electrostatic recovery" pitch. There is no need to shock folks to prove your machine is better. I know I will take flak for bringing this up but since there is NO evidence that a local different body charge attracts gold any better than say... dust and dirt I'm just going to have to let the stuff fly on that one. (Sorry Hoser - crank away if you must, I'll still respect you in the morning. )

Just one miners perspective. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Clay, Chris is in the process of moving his entire operation to Prescott. The last time I talk to him he and his wife were out shopping for a home.

 

[2cmorau]

feeder ,slide plate always loads up with debris, that's the frustrating part, gotta stick my nose up in the dust to free up the darn thing, get the flow goin agian running Keene 140 and i enjoy a slow feed, but like i say it jams up all the time with roots, twigs, anyone have duh moment for me LOL, or is this something we have to deal with like cobbles turnin sideways inside the hose while dredgin

 

[jair]

feeder ,slide plate always loads up with debris, that's the frustrating part, gotta stick my nose up in the dust to free up the darn thing, get the flow goin agian running Keene 140 and i enjoy a slow feed, but like i say it jams up all the time with roots, twigs, anyone have duh moment for me LOL, or is this something we have to deal with like cobbles turnin sideways inside the hose while dredgin

pre screen your materials . Place a smaller mesh screen over the top .
I do this when I know the gold I'd fine and use a metal detector over your tailings when done just to make sure you didn't roll off a nugget or two .

I'm in the desert and don't find large gold . You may have larger gold in your area . I use 1/4 inch screen and works well .

 

[rodoconnor]

2cmorau, you might try putting a screwdriver through your grizzly so that it extends down into the feeder. When things get jammed up just wiggle it around to unclog everything

 

[2cmorau]

Thanks jair, prescreen is a great idea, my back and age and the lack of dredging adding poundage to this body, all that extra work would be great for the loss of weight, but like in dredgin, i only wanna move the rock once LOL
Rodo, very clever, LOL a duh moment for me and you help me with an idea

 

[jair]

No problem . I'm up there also . I modified a 8 inch trommel and use it as a classifier then run through my small Thompson dry washer , works really well . I built a conveyor but needs more work to work properly . I have a large keen I just shovel right into also .