Dr. Thorne's Gold

[skyhawk1251]

The tale of "Dr. Thorne's Gold" is clouded with controversy as to whether it is fact or fiction. I'm providing here a portion of the tale as recorded in Bark's Notes and Barry Storm's account of the tale which he wrote in his book, "Thunder Gods Gold."

Some contend that Dr. Thorne was never attached to the U.S. Army Medical Corps and that he never was near the Superstition Mountains. Others just as surely claim the opposite. For this post, I'm going to assume for illustrative purposes that the tale is 100% factual, in order to proceed to make a guess if there is any location in the Superstition Mountains that could fit Bark's Notes and Barry Storm's narratives.

Read the pages given below first for the basis of my hypothetical "guess." Replies can be made immediately, even if my "Part Two" with GE images has not yet been posted, but it would be better to wait for "Part Two" before commenting. This is "Part One."

 

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[American Treasures]

very good

 

[American Treasures]

yes

 

[Idahodutch]

There was also something on the back that I can't read and understand.

View attachment 2044309

Hello American Treasures,
That’s cool you found some old photos like these in your dad’s stuff.
Are you thinking they may have something to do with Doc Thorne’s Gold?
I’m wondering if he had maybe also left some notes or something, that might point to the photos being associated with Doc Thorne’s Gold?

 

[BennyV]

Good story

 

[skyhawk1251]

PART TWO. Here is my guess as to at least one location that fits the "Dr. Thorne's Gold" narratives. GPS coordinates are provided. The locations of the covered mine and the "old stone corral" are enclosed inside red boxes.

My guess also seems to fit Barry Storm's tale of the "sunken valley", which I'll cover in "Part Three."

 

[skyhawk1251]

View attachment 2044305

". . . we walked through a hole or cave . . ." -- Bark's Notes

Very interesting photos. This seems to also relate to my "Part Three" which will be posted soon.

 

[American Treasures]

". . . we walked through a hole or cave . . ." -- Bark's Notes

Very interesting photos. This seems to also relate to my "Part Three" which will be posted soon.

Alright friend.
I have the approximate location of what you are looking for, my great-uncle wrote down an encrypted coordinate that I deciphered this morning.
Where are you now, what are your plans?

 

[skyhawk1251]

PART THREE. Here are pages from "Thunder Gods Gold" where Barry Storm tells the tale of the "hidden canyon/sunken valley" on Geronimo Head. Zoomed GE images are provided of the "hidden canyon."

Working on the assumption that this tale is 100% factual, which I'm doing here only to present a hypothetical case for a possible location where it could have taken place, I would surmise that the Spaniards encampment was on the "spur" where the tumbled, stacked-stone walls are found. The stone "structure" was not a "ruin of an old stone corral" (Bark's Notes), but was a shelter/defensive breastworks, in my opinion. Apaches attempted to camoflage evidence of the stone walls, but did not completely finish the job. Later mining activity was moved to a small flat above the "hidden canyon", thus the covered, concealed pit mine (see Part Two).

 

[skyhawk1251]

Alright friend.
I have the approximate location of what you are looking for, my great-uncle wrote down an encrypted coordinate that I deciphered this morning.
Where are you now, what are your plans?

By going to the GPS coordinates included in the GE images, anyone can find and view the exact locations. This post, "Dr. Thorne's Gold", is purely a mental exercise, a thinking-through of a "what-if" hypothesis. This place on Geronimo Head would be an interesting place to explore, but I have no plans at present to do so. My location is Kingman, Mohave County, AZ and I rarely stray outside Mohave County. If you're willing to share the deciphered coordinate, please do so by Private Message. Even if you don't want to share I'd like to know if this thread helped you in any way to break the encryption.

 

[American Treasures]

By going to the GPS coordinates included in the GE images, anyone can find and view the exact locations. This post, "Dr. Thorne's Gold", is purely a mental exercise, a thinking-through of a "what-if" hypothesis. This place on Geronimo Head would be an interesting place to explore, but I have no plans at present to do so. My location is Kingman, Mohave County, AZ and I rarely stray outside Mohave County. If you're willing to share the deciphered coordinate, please do so by Private Message. Even if you don't want to share I'd like to know if this thread helped you in any way to break the encryption.

I understand friend.
But the coordinate I deciphered throws everything much further south of Arizona.

 

[skyhawk1251]

PART FOUR. Some additional information about the Dr. Thorne legend from another old book.

 

[American Treasures]

Hello brother.
good.

 

[Idahodutch]

I have a question concerning the “Doc Thorne” stories.
Was there another story that had something about a rock formation looking out over the area, that looked like a “Sphinx”
Just curios if anybody can remember or knows more about this, and is willing to share.

Thanks,
Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

I have a question concerning the “Doc Thorne” stories.
Was there another story that had something about a rock formation looking out over the area, that looked like a “Sphinx”
Just curios if anybody can remember or knows more about this, and is willing to share.

Thanks,
Idahodutch

This clue was told by John Deer maybe to Clay Worst or another old time Dutcman's mine hunter. John Reed was with his father twice at the LDM inclined shaft in the 1880's. The last time John Reed was 12 years old, so what he saw as a " Sphinx " could be interpreted as a child imagination.
Impression make, he knew at that age and in that era, about ancient history and mythology and how a Sphinx would be looking like.
My answer to this clue is yes, there is a rock formation which could be recognized as a Sphinx, with a little dose of imagination. I post a crop of a real picture of LDM inclined shaft region. In the center, in the yellow circle are the landmarks depicted in the slide-map #3 from the Waltz map and on the top of that crop, almost in the saddle, you can see the structure which looks like a Sphinx.

 

[Idahodutch]

This clue was told by John Deer maybe to Clay Worst or another old time Dutcman's mine hunter. John Reed was with his father twice at the LDM inclined shaft in the 1880's. The last time John Reed was 12 years old, so what he saw as a " Sphinx " could be interpreted as a child imagination.
Impression make, he knew at that age and in that era, about ancient history and mythology and how a Sphinx would be looking like.
My answer to this clue is yes, there is a rock formation which could be recognized as a Sphinx, with a little dose of imagination. I post a crop of a real picture of LDM inclined shaft region. In the center, in the yellow circle are the landmarks depicted in the slide-map #3 from the Waltz map and on the top of that crop, almost in the saddle, you can see the structure which looks like a Sphinx.

Markmar,
Thanks for responding. I couldn’t for the life of me, remember which story the “sphinx” came from.

Here is a different photo and in the sunny part, there is a rock formation that could fit for a “sphinx”.

I saw this, along with some other things of interest, in this vicinity, that are clues related on the Doc Thorne story, but couldn’t find reference to the sphinx.
This one is probably just a coincidence. Thanks again.

 

[Idahodutch]

Markmar,
I just read the John Reed story by Clay Worst, dated 1987.
It was an interesting read. I enjoyed it.
There wasn’t mention of the sphinx, but maybe that came through someone other than through Clay.

I would agree that the story is talking about the inclined shaft up above.
The description of the shaft, differed from Waltz’ description.

According to this story, Waltz was initially to the site in 1868.
Then has Waltz on site again in 1881.
Then Waltz stating he had not been there since 1884.

John Reed account is that when they went to the mine the 2nd time in 1888, that it had been filled in. Bulk headed off a few feet down with logs, and filled up. Also talked about the use of Timbers down in the mine, but Waltz’ account is it was done in old Mexican style, with angled benches so Timbers or ladders were not used, and Waltz didn’t fill in the inclined shaft …. He left it open, except for some Mexican bodies, and their stuff.

Was there someone else that had been there that timbered things, and then later filled it up?
Was Reed giving some more disinformation in regards to the mine shaft description?
😁🤪
Fun stuff. 👍

 

[markmar]

I don't believe Waltz threw the Mexican's bodies in the LDM inclined shaft. And this because he was in this mine and worked it for a while. When Waltz said the clue about a 18" vein in white quartz and a hematite vein about 8" to run beside the other, was referring to the LDM inclined shaft. Also if there would been skeletons, for sure Reed would tell about them. Don't bite in the stories of Waltz killing 5 Mexicans at the mine's mouth. The only accurate story is that told by Waltz to Holmes.
Now , the timbering was made by the Peralta's miners and the filling by the Apache about in 1882 ( story told by Apache Jack to Sims Ely ). The Apache threw in the mine all the mining ustensiles which were hidden in the underground passage/tunnel, the known clue, and filled the mine with the mining dump and after fixed logs and above put rocks in cement, and after covered with dust and rocks to looks like the surrounding area. The apache also walled up the entrance of that tunnel/underground passage.
When Waltz went last time to his mine, saw the modifications and knew was the time to cover his mine and to vanish.

 

[Idahodutch]

I don't believe Waltz threw the Mexican's bodies in the LDM inclined shaft. And this because he was in this mine and worked it for a while. When Waltz said the clue about a 18" vein in white quartz and a hematite vein about 8" to run beside the other, was referring to the LDM inclined shaft. Also if there would been skeletons, for sure Reed would tell about them. Don't bite in the stories of Waltz killing 5 Mexicans at the mine's mouth. Ther only accurate story is that told by Waltz to Holmes.
Now , the timbering was made by the Peralta's miners and the filling by the Apache about in 1882 ( story told by Apache Jack to Sims Ely ). The Apache threw in the mine all the mining ustensiles which were hidden in the underground passage/tunnel, the known clue, and filled the mine with the mining dump and after fixed logs and above put rocks in cement, and after covered with dust and rocks to looks like the surrounding area. The apache also walled up the entrance of that tunnel/underground passage.
When Waltz went last time to his mine, saw the modifications and knew was the time to cover his mine and to vanish.

I only had the one question concerning the sphinx.
As far as what you believe or not …… you may believe whatever 🤓😂😂

 

[Idahodutch]

Skyhawk,
Back to Doc Thorne…. I had some thoughts about this account and just wanted to comment.

It states that the gold yielded about $2,800 which equates to approximately 1400 ounces of gold at $20.
1400 Troy ounces weigh approximately 95 pounds of gold. That’s if it was pure gold.

I can imagine that saddle bags might hold 70-80 pounds, and his hat, maybe another 15-20 pounds, and stuffed pockets ….
A feat that certainly could have been performed, even while carefully getting back down out of the steep arroyo.

The part about Thorne recounting that he could see what he thought , was perhaps the tip of a sombrero shaped peak, from the canyon floor below the steep arroyo.
Where they also left the horses.

Doc Thorne thought it was weavers needle, but was not able to relocate that spot.

What if the tip of a peak that he thought was weavers needle, wasn’t.

At any rate, looking from the canyon floor, up into a high very steep arroyo, and able to see the tip of a peak …..

In my mind, either the arroyo is not very high up, or the peak is not very far away.
Otherwise it would not be visible from the canyon floor, over the top of the arroyo.

To leave the animals down at the canyon bottom, there is high probability of water, and stuff for the animals to eat in the close proximity.

The tip of the sombrero shape peak behind the arroyo to the south, indicates a northward facing arroyo.

It certainly does sound very similar to the descriptions of the LDM area.