Does JESÚS GARCÍA CALERO really know where the golden Madonna is....???

[capt dom]

If this quasi socialist {probably sired by a fascist} who is printing government inspired bullcrap
in an attempt to bury the pubic's perception in deception concerning the War Graves Act
in an attempt to sway the U.S. Admiralty Courts actual ruling concerning the recent negative recent Odyssey
, Magistrate Report and Recommendation, the even thought he new where the "mythical" golden Madonna
was.... he would be claiming it as the property of the spains.... Even though they were exterminating over
eleven civilizations in the name of JESUS to acquire the gold to make it....

But, those guys from the spains.... they were gods... screw the native pagen south americans... what do they
know or deserve how good are their attorneys?

So much for national patrimony.... but, then again - what do I know....

What I do know is these butt wipes are attempting to sell out honest free enterprise ethics while
hiding behind the wallets of those who support the concept of "good government" while not
understanding - or wanting to deal with the fact that it is way out of control....

Even sadder is the U.S. government employees and politicians who have been drawn into this
mass - smoke and mirrors - attempt in deception - so as to claim ownership to what has been
lost in time....

I guess my question is, ... Just how stupid and BLIND... is the public eye....

 

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[Saturna]

LOL, Now you've done it capt dom. Politics, name calling, foul language, even a bit of religion.

It won't be me, but I'll bet someone will complain to the mod(s). Will this still be here by tomorrow morning?




Jay

***Edit*** Still here. "Shipwrecks" isn't as sensitive as other forums on this site.

 

[mariner]

capt dom,

Perhaps a little more water with it would help.

Mariner

 

[capt dom]

SORRY .... Some times - I just get fed up with sanctimounius bullcrap
these P.O.S. come up with in an attempt to sway the cattle of public opinion.

This is a prime example of government bureaucrats and latent communists or
better yet fascists using a twisted form of the "good old boy network" to apply
a feudal mentality to an ownership question....

"Only the church or a government with some horsepower can get away with a
rationale like... "Its still ours because we are who we are and continue to be
who we once were".

The chain of the Spains' government needs to be more closely scrutinized by
the modern world. The Hapsbug Dynasty controlled the "Spains" in the 16th
and 17th century - now the origins of this eventually inbred group was an Austrian
/ Swiss family. What about the communist / facist / periods of the Spanish courts
during the 20th century? What a cast of characters - whose interests some,
{pardon the my crass assessment} butt wipes in our government legal system are
attempting to protect!

And, like Andrew Dice Clay would say.... "Forget about it"....! when it
comes to the hapless and poorly represented native Bolivian, Peruvian, and mexican folks
that were being ripped off in the name of = guess who.... the poor fella some other
earlier government bureaucrat types swayed the public opinion to be nailed on a cross!

But I am just some dastardly treasure hunter - attempting to steal the best,
for his own ill gotten gain....
Who is going to listen to me....

Also, I had - had a few too many beers after I read this character's latest propaganda
rag....

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Capt Dom, a little harsh! However, I'm in complete agreement with you on this one.

Good hunting to you my friend.

Tom

 

[capt dom]

Here is the bologna that set me off


ABC – SPAIN
August 30/09

USA torpedoes Odyssey’s future

The end of a false prestige
The intervention of the USA in Spain’s favor takes place from the highest levels of the American Administration, with the good view of Hillary Clinton, secretary of State. At a time in which relations are close with some of their allies before the challenges that are faced, it is clear that Europe has much to contribute (a fight against the other piracy, cultural). Up to now, the technology at the military level – and origin – of the treasure hunters allowed them to have great influence. But it is clear that this time has passed. It is good news for the submerged patrimony of the historical powers. And for Spain, always within the sight of plunderers. All that remains is for Tampa to ratify the end of the unmerited prestige of those who destroy history for gold fever.

JESÚS GARCÍA CALERO

A bunch of crap... from a genuine P.O.S. butt wipe!
And, that is being quite mild....

Spain is a prime example of the concept and definition of a plunderer - senorita CALEO....

 

[jeff k]

Dom... That article is not accurate. The Dept. of Justice filed the brief, not the State Dept.

 

[capt dom]

Jeff....

What do you think I am raving about !!!!

Bull crap from the dark side being published like its the truth...

What this character is saying is Hillary Clinton {Dept of State} is lending
support to Spain's position} now that really sucks - if it is true...

 

[mariner]

The US Department of State has long been the main force encouraging Spain to exert its rights (or otherwise) when it comes to wrecks. It was the Department of State that intervened first in the SeaHunt case, and then got Spain to intervene when the Court of Appeals ruled that the US had no standing in that case. Remember too that although the US has never ratified the latest UNESCO Convention on Underwater Cultural Heritage, the representatives of the Department of State and NOAA played a siginificant role in the development of that policy.

It is the Department of State that is responsible for Foreign Relations, including those with Spain, and will be pulling the strings in this case, too.

While it is right for them to want to protect US warships, they should not be re-writing the meaning of International Treaties the way they are doing so, and using the idea of protecting US warships as the cover for revoking parts of the International Laws of the Sea. "We the people .............. etc."

Not that Odyssey went about this one in the right way.

Mariner

 

[Vox veritas]

The US Department of State has long been the main force encouraging Spain to exert its rights (or otherwise) when it comes to wrecks. It was the Department of State that intervened first in the SeaHunt case, and then got Spain to intervene when the Court of Appeals ruled that the US had no standing in that case. Remember too that although the US has never ratified the latest UNESCO Convention on Underwater Cultural Heritage, the representatives of the Department of State and NOAA played a siginificant role in the development of that policy.

It is the Department of State that is responsible for Foreign Relations, including those with Spain, and will be pulling the strings in this case, too.

While it is right for them to want to protect US warships, they should not be re-writing the meaning of International Treaties the way they are doing so, and using the idea of protecting US warships as the cover for revoking parts of the International Laws of the Sea. "We the people .............. etc."

Not that Odyssey went about this one in the right way.

Mariner

The USA embassy in Madrid has had active part in all the negotiations with Spain-Odyssey. This is perfectly demonstrable. It happened the same thing for Spanish part (Asuntos Exteriores), where the diplomacy had an outstanding position in the relationships with Odyssey.

 

[Panfilo]

No matter which side of the fence one is in regarding the Odyssey-Spain legal battle, I don’t think it caught a lot of people by surprise the position the US government took in the amicus brief. It is understandable though one need not agree, that for a naval world power as the US is today, its fleet of nuclear submarines are far more relevant, important and costly than all the galleons in US waters. This is the position of the “administration” as expressed by the State Department and Department of Justice. The interesting thing that will surface from this collision of interests is what the Judiciary system, the appellate courts and the Supreme Court, who will undoubtedly hear this case, have to say about 1) private property versus state property, descendants claiming their legal inheritance. 2) Treaties vs. Conventions and the law, which is stronger? 3) Is the interest of the Government more relevant than the rights ascertained by citizens, 4) if the Mercedes was in a “commercial” mission, is the amicus brief relevant? If there is no ship, does the Sovereign Immunity thesis hold any water?
Thank God for the division of powers; I for one have a great deal of faith in the American judicial system and will wager two to one that in the long run the judges will see the light and give the descendants their coins, give Odyssey a fair share of the recovered coins and establish the uncontroversial fact that a commercial mission is not a military one. Anybody want to make a bet?

 

[capt dom]

This question is a lot bigger than whether or not Odyssey is getting screwed or not....

After being in the biz.... for some time they know exactly what is going on and are not stupid.
If you follow the stock swings and blocks of stock sold - and options flipped, you will see the
principals are not exactly suffering too much over the extended protraction - while these issues
are being pondered....

The genuine issue we should all be concerned with is are their attorneys making the best case
they can make or are they too just along for the ride.... I agree with the above posting and
have some faith that in the end - the smoke may br finally blown away... by our Judicial System.

From a cultural resource issue - or even a "war grave" issue the bottom line here is that there
really isn't anything left of most of these shipwrecks to actually study - from an archeological stand point.

It is all "smoke and mirrors". The ship blew up.... Its gone.... The crabs carried off most
of the bones that may have made it to the bottom. Various other marine creatures and birds, that
have long since gone ate everyone else - if they didn't just dissolve from floating about as
bloated corpses.

Both sides are guilty of playing an archeological card that is empty handed. These projects are
anthropological events. The public interest they generate are their real treasure. more money
is going to be made in the peaks and valleys of OMEX stock than ever will be made in the marketing
of 500,000 coins that pretty much all look alike.

It is just a down right shame projects like this end up serving other agendas - especially of the
true 21st century pirates - Goules that are called attorneys - and even worse - public employees who
don't really give a crap about serving the public trust....

 

[4theMoney]

I completely agree with you. Petty greed and triffling envy is the root of much of it. I wonder how long we have to endure being politically correct. Know that most americans are on our side, we just havent been yelling loud enough.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

No matter which side of the fence one is in regarding the Odyssey-Spain legal battle, I don’t think it caught a lot of people by surprise the position the US government took in the amicus brief. It is understandable though one need not agree, that for a naval world power as the US is today, its fleet of nuclear submarines are far more relevant, important and costly than all the galleons in US waters. This is the position of the “administration” as expressed by the State Department and Department of Justice. The interesting thing that will surface from this collision of interests is what the Judiciary system, the appellate courts and the Supreme Court, who will undoubtedly hear this case, have to say about 1) private property versus state property, descendants claiming their legal inheritance. 2) Treaties vs. Conventions and the law, which is stronger? 3) Is the interest of the Government more relevant than the rights ascertained by citizens, 4) if the Mercedes was in a “commercial” mission, is the amicus brief relevant? If there is no ship, does the Sovereign Immunity thesis hold any water?
Thank God for the division of powers; I for one have a great deal of faith in the American judicial system and will wager two to one that in the long run the judges will see the light and give the descendants their coins, give Odyssey a fair share of the recovered coins and establish the uncontroversial fact that a commercial mission is not a military one. Anybody want to make a bet?

Hola Panfilo, well written as always.
What constitutes a shipwreck? Complete ship? Some timbers, cannons, rudder fittings Odyssey only grabbed the coins and
flew the coupe, they left behind, cannons, rudder fitting even plates which would have made it easier to know which ship they came from ! So the argument off no ship is hog wash !!!
You are correct with the US also protecting their interests not only with sunken ships but many here are to narrow minded
to realize that Spain spend billions with the US, on Defence equipment, where do you think their F18 Hornet's come from?
and how much do they cost
And yes Panfilo, I will take you up on your bet !
Cheers, Ossy

 

[PDJ]

ossy,
You said: Odyessy took the coins and then "flew the coupe, they left behind, cannons, rudder fitting even plates" -- Prove it.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

PDJ, I have some photos, and even on film ( Treasure Quest ) Black swan episode 11, Zeus zooms in on a candle holder and plates
Comment made " We hope to come back " If you haven't seen it, I can send you a copy.
Ossy

 

[jeff k]

PDJ... Ossy is correct, but what he doesn't know is that Odyssey had every intention of going back to the site until Spain embargoed their ships in Gibraltar. There is almost 15,000 gold coins, thousands of silver coins, and chests of worked silver still waiting to be found.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thanks Jeff, What I have never been able to understand is why didn't they pick up those items
or maybe a cannon or two They did have time, 7 days if I remember correctly.
Ossy

 

[PDJ]

Ossy,
I think you missed my point. I think Jeff explained it well.
PDJ

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

PDJ... Ossy is correct, but what he doesn't know is that Odyssey had every intention of going back to the site until Spain embargoed their ships in Gibraltar. There is almost 15,000 gold coins, thousands of silver coins, and chests of worked silver still waiting to be found.

Question Jeff. If Odyssey don't know what ship it was? How do they know their is 15,000 gold coins, silver coins and chests still left ?
Ossy