Do you think the Silver Chief Mine is where Jacob Waltz got his gold?

[PotBelly Jim]

Steamboat, those are all good questions. Answering them all at once would take too long and most of the answers you seek are already on this site and the other LDM forums.

Here's a quick and dirty response to some of your questions, in brief:

Did Cox put in a claim? Yes. It was registered in Pinal Co. Search for Matthew Roberts' excellent post on this forum, about this claim.

Did Cox get gold ore out of the mine? Depends on if you believe him or not. Or... if anyone would actually tell the truth about where they happened to find gold

Did Cox die a wealthy man? Depends on how you measure wealth. If not, then why not? You may want to do a bit more digging into Cox’s story. He said his partners ripped him off.


If the Silver Chief mine is filled in and off limits how then could anyone get any gold ore out of it to compare with the ore in the match box? First, there’s plenty of dump material around the mine that can be picked up off the ground. Some limited comparison can be done with it, which has actually happened several times. Depends on who you talk to, as to whether or not it’s comparable enough to the matchbox to indicate it’s the LDM, or close to the LDM. The last test was done by AZDAVE35 in 2019 and is outlined in Ron Feldman’s latest book.

There are also known gold specimens that came out of this particular mine...This is probably the meat of what you're looking for. I don't think any analysis done on these specimens exists in print anywhere, nor do I think anyone that has them is going to talk much about it.



Does anyone have a picture of the Silver Chief mine? There are pictures on this and other forums, and in several books.


Of all the people I have listened to, Clay Worst seems to me to be the most believable. You’re a good judge of character

 

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[wrmickel1]

Steamboat

Cox had excuses for everything bye what I read or heard of him. I just don’t see how the Feldman’s got hooked into anything he said. Team Heat to a silver mine being the Dutchman’s Mine. I don’t understand there motive other then spread the Dutchman’s Mine Solved. So they can keep looking with less people around.

Just my opinion you’ll make your own. Cox is a waste of time.

Start with the Queer Quest story about Julia Rienhart and his bro
Where they went what they did where they stayed and the first Clues and stop there. The rest is horse crap.
ohh and the man standing is a good clue.

babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

I don’t know where the man standing came from. I must think Azdave for that. Soon as he said it. I knew where that is I passed it many times. The mine is within 20 feet of the man standing. That’s most likely part of a private clue never given out by Clay.

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Believes it to be true. The science tells a different tale.

Babymick1

As a side note Dave
Is Cox the one you said found Amethyst or something like that. Or staged some.

nope

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Well, I wouldn't call anyone a liar, but it is interesting that both the Bull Dog mine and the Silver Chief mine are both reported to be filled in and off limits. That makes it real convenient. A person can say that's the LDM but you can't go there to prove anything.
There is money in treasure hunting besides finding the treasure. The Oak Island brothers have made a ton of money off the TV show and after 7 or 8 years have not found any treasure.
Writing books is another way.
I hear a lot about the "Cox notes". Feldman said Cox found the LDM and it was the Silver Chief mine. Did Cox put in a claim? Did Cox get gold ore out of the mine? Did Cox die a wealthy man? If not, then why not?
If the Silver Chief mine is filled in and off limits how then could anyone get any gold ore out of it to compare with the ore in the match box?
Does anyone have a picture of the Silver Chief mine?
Of all the people I have listened to, Clay Worst seems to me to be the most believable.

Steamboat,

For either the Bulldog or the Silver Chief to have been the Dutchman they would have had to have been filed on as a relocation, not an original location. Both were filed as original locations, the Bulldog by Merrill and the Silver Chief by Rogers.

Why was this significant ? Because if it were the Dutchman, Merrill and Roger's would have found an already worked mine. Knowing the mining laws they would never have risked filing as an original location and have someone step out of the shadows one day and dispute their claim, even if the dispute was flimsy. By filing as a rediscovery it gave someone a set amount of time to step forward or lose all rights to the claim. Neither Merrill nor Rogers filed as a rediscovery. That alone shows neither mine was the former mine known as the Dutchman.

There are many other reasons neither mine could have been the Dutchman. Cox, Feldman and Schoose are all sincere in their beliefs but have to ignore or twist hard evidence to the contrary.

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

Steamboat,

For either the Bulldog or the Silver Chief to have been the Dutchman they would have had to have been filed on as a relocation, not an original location. Both were filed as original locations, the Bulldog by Merrill and the Silver Chief by Rogers.

Why was this significant ? Because if it were the Dutchman, Merrill and Roger's would have found an already worked mine. Knowing the mining laws they would never have risked filing as an original location and have someone step out of the shadows one day and dispute their claim, even if the dispute was flimsy. By filing as a rediscovery it gave someone a set amount of time to step forward or lose all rights to the claim. Neither Merrill nor Rogers filed as a rediscovery. That alone shows neither mine was the former mine known as the Dutchman.

There are many other reasons neither mine could have been the Dutchman. Cox, Feldman and Schoose are all sincere in their beliefs but have to ignore or twist hard evidence to the contrary.

Matthew

matthew...people lie but the xrf doesn't

 

[azdave35]

I don’t know where the man standing came from. I must think Azdave for that. Soon as he said it. I knew where that is I passed it many times. The mine is within 20 feet of the man standing. That’s most likely part of a private clue never given out by Clay.

babymick1

the standing man clue came from brownie...if you know where the mine is why dont you have a tv show mick?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

matthew...people lie but the xrf doesn't

Dave,

That is true, the xrf does not lie. But again we are back to the same old problem. We have to believe the sample ores came from where they are said to have come from and they match what is said to be ore from the dutchman and that someone didn't skew the results in their favor to sell more books, promote their business and appear in TV documentaries.

Yes the xrf doesn't lie, people do and you have correctly identified the dilema.

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

That is true, the xrf does not lie. But again we are back to the same old problem. We have to believe the sample ores came from where they are said to have come from and they match what is said to be ore from the dutchman and that someone didn't skew the results in their favor to sell more books, promote their business and appear in TV documentaries.

Yes the xrf doesn't lie, people do and you have correctly identified the dilema.

Matthew

true matthew..you have to have confidence in the people you are dealing with...when i did those tests i was dealing with ron and clay..and i trust both ..even though they have different views on where the ldm is...ron thinks he has it..clay thinks he knows where it is...and i believe both of them are telling the truth....i'm totally convinced neither one of them would have tried to manipulate the tests or samples .. ..but in my opinion i think ron has found it....you kinda had to be there when i did the tests...you might be swayed ....

 

[wrmickel1]

the standing man clue came from brownie...if you know where the mine is why dont you have a tv show mick?

Not interested in a show. Not my angle.
I do know for a fact that Gordon paid some family members to lie about Travis as the carver of the Stones. Then he invited Frank to come along. So he could dig up a Treasure he planted for one thing.

FAME

BABYMICK1

 

[Idahodutch]

I don’t know where the man standing came from. I must think Azdave for that. Soon as he said it. I knew where that is I passed it many times. The mine is within 20 feet of the man standing. That’s most likely part of a private clue never given out by Clay.

babymick1

I took the clue to be a landmark, for where/when to veer off the trail.
That the landmark can be seen “over the point of a low ridge”, while traveling along a trail.

Did I read it incorrectly?
To see it over the point of a low ridge, from a trail below....
think about that for a bit. Folks overlook the part that says “over the point of a low ridge”.

I don’t think the landmark seen over the point of a low ridge, is the physical size of a man.
Would need to be much larger imho.
Idahodutch

 

[azdave35]

I took the clue to be a landmark, for where/when to veer off the trail.
That the landmark can be seen “over the point of a low ridge”, while traveling along a trail.

Did I read it incorrectly?
To see it over the point of a low ridge, from a trail below....
think about that for a bit. Folks overlook the part that says “over the point of a low ridge”.

I don’t think you he landmark seen over the point of a low ridge, is the physical size of a man.
Would need to be much larger imho.
Idahodutch

that was brownies main clue he was looking for....he heard that one of the cowboys had destroyed it so it may not still be standing

 

[Idahodutch]

that was brownies main clue he was looking for....he heard that one of the cowboys had destroyed it so it may not still be standing

It doesn’t say what the landmark looks like when up close, only looking beyond the point of a low ridge.
If the cowboy knocked over a man sized formation, wouldn’t have been the one from the clue, most likely.
But who knows.

 

[Idahodutch]

In that same set of clues, “low ridge” is mention again, later on.
The low ridge that you come to, after going through the saddle, has a small area and the high point of that low ridge, where Four peaks can be seen as 1 peak.

This combination of clues; low ridge, a ravine below, saddle, see 4-peaks as 1, from the high point of same low ridge.
They absolutely exist.

Is it the correct low ridge?
Confirmation still awaits.

 

[Idahodutch]

I guess I believe Waltz was actually trying to tell how to get there.
And personally, the clues from both camps, don’t seem to line up for getting to either of the mines in question.

As far as testing verification of ore done, I have to agree with Matthew, that things can happen unaware to everyone involved. I don’t disregard the test results. But the ore may not actually be from the locations specified.

My research was to follow the clues. I didn’t end up at either of those mines, so it would be interesting to see how the clues would get you there?

Dave, what did Ron have to say about following clues?

 

[azdave35]

In that same set of clues, “low ridge” is mention again, later on.
The low ridge that you come to, after going through the saddle, has a small area and the high point of that low ridge, where Four peaks can be seen as 1 peak.

This combination of clues; low ridge, a ravine below, saddle, see 4-peaks as 1, from the high point of same low ridge.
They absolutely exist.

Is it the correct low ridge?
Confirmation still awaits.

the only clue that came from dick holmes is the standing man rock...according to him that came from waltz....any other clues floating around should be disregarded ...most of the other clues were made up and sold for a drink at the bar

 

[azdave35]

I guess I believe Waltz was actually trying to tell how to get there.
And personally, the clues from both camps, don’t seem to line up for getting to either of the mines in question.

As far as testing verification of ore done, I have to agree with Matthew, that things can happen unaware to everyone involved. I don’t disregard the test results. But the ore may not actually be from the locations specified.

My research was to follow the clues. I didn’t end up at either of those mines, so it would be interesting to see how the clues would get you there?

Dave, what did Ron have to say about following clues?

dutch...i dont quote people on here because it always goes south...ask ron ...he will be glad to tell you

 

[Idahodutch]

the only clue that came from dick holmes is the standing man rock...according to him that came from waltz....any other clues floating around should be disregarded ...most of the other clues were made up and sold for a drink at the bar

I don’t know Dave, for hogwash clues .... it is interesting that following each of the sets of directions (clues), Holmes, and Julia, that they both lead you to the same low ridge, above a ravine, and Four Peak can be viewed to the North as 1 peak from the high point of that ridge. A peak with a hole in it in the other direction. Water tanks below. ..... more to the list of those silly clues that can be seen there.

Pretty amazing that someone could make all that up .... and it leads to a place ... just as described.
I think many of the clues are very real.

If I can get back in there, and just say ... find a piece of ore, I will get in touch with you to see about checking it out.
I suspect there is a good chance, it would match up.

I too think it was found, just not disclosed publicly.
Thanks for getting back.

Idahodutch

 

[azdave35]

I don’t know Dave, for hogwash clues .... it is interesting that following each of the sets of directions (clues), Holmes, and Julia, that they both lead you to the same low ridge, above a ravine, and Four Peak can be viewed to the North as 1 peak from the high point of that ridge. A peak with a hole in it in the other direction. Water tanks below. ..... more to the list of those silly clues that can be seen there.

Pretty amazing that someone could make all that up .... and it leads to a place ... just as described.
I think many of the clues are very real.

If I can get back in there, and just say ... find a piece of ore, I will get in touch with you to see about checking it out.
I suspect there is a good chance, it would match up.

I too think it was found, just not disclosed publicly.
Thanks for getting back.

Idahodutch

dutch.....the problem with those clues is that they fit alot of places in the supers....matter of fact they fit the silver chief mine....the gunsight clue...the cave with a house clue....people have been following those clues for decades and they all found an area they fit....but none of them has ever found a mine...except one

 

[Idahodutch]

dutch.....the problem with those clues is that they fit alot of places in the supers....matter of fact they fit the silver chief mine....the gunsight clue...the cave with a house clue....people have been following those clues for decades and they all found an area they fit....but none of them has ever found a mine...except one

You may be very right. There are some clues that definitely narrow down the search area, and I stayed within the area.
Maybe bogus but the 5 mile diameter with WN and the center, limits quite a lot.
North of WN limits more.
A ravine facing NorthWest.
Pass the little red hills, gone too far .... means they’re not too far away.

So just taking those, much is eliminated.
Are the clues BS?
Don’t know for sure until I check out the ravine. Was planning on spending 2 - 3 weeks camped out in it. If it is the correct ravine, should find more clues ... perhaps enough to confirm a very, very high likely hood, or nothing more than a close match.

A big part of my belief, is that there are clues for getting there from different paths, from the North, and from the South.
If they are good clues, they would HAVE to converge.

Could they converge if are not good clues, somewhere in the search zone?
Strong probability that they would not converge in the search area.

These do converge.
I have to check it out more, if I can.