disputing what you may believe about California TRESPASS LAWS

[geolover]

Last week I got a few replies/warnings about trespassing on other peoples' property, so I checked things out for myself. In CA, IN GENERAL, there are three levels of trespass. An infraction, which I am mostly talking about. A misdemeanour (criminal trespass), which includes taking soil, rocks, etc, but mostly about not leaving after being asked. And aggravated" (felony) trespass.
First I read about what defines a misdemeanour. Basically occupying a property, not leaving after being asked, taking items including soil-rocks, passing through a fence or no trespassing signs (properly displayed).

Here is the legal definition of trespass (at the infraction level): California Penal Code Section 602.8 (a) Any person who without the written permission of the landowner, the owner's agent, or the person in lawful possession of the land, willfully enters any lands under cultivation or enclosed by fence, belonging to, or occupied by, another, or who willfully enters upon uncultivated or unenclosed lands where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering the lands, is guilty of a public offense.
(b) Any person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) shall be punished as follows:
(1) A first offense is an infraction punishable by a fine of seventy-five dollars ($75).
- See more at: California Penal Code - PEN § 602.8 | FindLaw California Criminal Trespass & Trespassing Laws | Penal Code 602 PC

The land I'm talking about is uncultivated, not fenced, and does not have signage (three to a mile). As a matter of fact, there are no signs on most of these properties, and is not occupied, just wide open space. I'm not taking anything, just hiking, checking things out like the mind shaft that I found. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/g...ula-ca-vail-lake-i-found-something-today.html

Obviously, people are going to challenge my interpretation of PC 602. But if you are, please provide specific CA law. It's not that I have to be right or that I challenge everything people tell me. This is how I learn, I don't just take someone's word or advice and apply it, I research it for myself. I remember researching this a while back when I was curious about protecting my 20 acres.

So let the conversation begin, maybe you'll bring up a good point to debunk my beliefs. Good chance I'll learn something either way.



Closely Associated Crimes with Criminal Trespass include:
PC 601(a) Trespass - threat of serious bodily injury;
PC 602(a) Trespass - remove timber of another;
PC 602(c) Trespass - injure or sever produce
PC 602(d) Trespass - remove soil or stone
PC 602(e) Trespass - dig/remove stone of street
PC 602(f) Trespass - damage/destroy highway sign
PC 602(h)(1) Trespass - injure farm animal
PC 602(i) Trespass - damage fence/gate/signboard
PC 602(k) Trespass - intent to interfere with business
PC 602(m) Trespass - enter & occupy property
PC 602(n) Trespass - drive vehicle on private property
PC 602(p) Trespass - enter closed lands
PC 602((q) Trespass - refuse or fail to leave building
PC 602(r) Trespass - ski in closed area
PC 602(s) Trespass - refuse to leave hotel/motel
PC 602(t) Trespass - enter or refuse to leave property
PC 602(w) Trespass - refuse to leave women's shelter
PC 602(x)(2)(c) Trespass - maternity ward
PC 602.5(a) Trespass - unauthorized entry of dwelling
PC 602.8(a) Trespass - fenced area or posted land
PC 602.13 Trespass enter into animal enclosure at zoo
PC 602.9(b) unlawful renting of residential dwelling
PC 602.10 Obstruct teacher/student at college

 

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[Asmbandits]

Im no expert but I think mineral trespass is different, and if im not mistaken a federal offense. Might want to keep that in mind if lurking around any claimed land, also if you planning on trespassing land that is private property id be more worried about being hit with rock salt or worse than what the law may do.

 

[ratled]

Here is good overall background on mineral trespass.

ratled

View attachment M9235.pdfView attachment M9235.pdf

 

[geolover]

There is no "current" claim on the property where I found the shaft, it was filed in 1977 and never renewed. I'm not worried about buckshot, from my experiences people are more inclined to ask if I found something or more currious about what I might be doing and not in a negitive way. They're more concernerned with motorcycles.

 

[geolover]

Thanks for the PDF, I love reading information like that. My post has nothing to do with mineral rights, just the definition or legality of what constitutes trespassing in CA.

 

[Asmbandits]

Trespassing is trespassing, not sure what you want from the community here, its still illegal and your guilty of it if you do so.. I agree that in your situation it might not be that big of a deal compared to other crimes but not sure what you are looking for with this thread, morals are morals so not everyone share them but laws are different. If it makes you feel any better do what you do and keep it to yourself and hopefully you don't get caught.

 

[Reed Lukens]

So there was no sign on the mine shaft saying Keep Out... but somebody saw you and told you that you were trespassing, maybe listening would be a good idea. Sounds like you need to take a new route and stop wanting to trespass where ever you feel like going.

Here's some typical cidiot mentality of what happened up here a few years back. A guy and his family crossed my fence and were eating in front of my old log house. My family and I watched them and it was no big deal, so I let them eat here in my front yard. Then they started looking in the windows of my guest house and then the dad walked into my garage and took some of my kids toys after building a snowman out front. Basically he filled his kids arms with my kids toys. So I went out and told him to put the toys back and he responded that they were just laying in the woods. I told him that these were my woods and that he was in my garage. He had his daughter and son with him and was teaching them how to steal. He then had the blatancy to say to me, "Nobody own's the woods..." And then another dumb citiot found out the hard way. I pulled out my 9mm, put 3 rounds into their snow man in front of his kids, went over and crushed it. I stomped it till it was dead, his kids were in tears. Then, I ordered him to put the toys back into my garage and asked him if he thought that it would be ok if his kids watched him die... As he was walking away, I told him that I was going to be there at his house tomorrow with my family and that we were going to bbq on his lawn tomorrow... and then he went off, told me that he would call the police, that I would be trespassing. I shrugged my shoulders, said that's what you were doing to me and turnabout's fair play, see you tomorrow. Then as they walked away I started shooting the branches in the trees above them and dropping snow on them. They started running in terror as fast as they could, disappeared after climbing back through my fence that was clearly marked, "No Trespassing", and I never saw them again.

So I walked into the Alta store a couple hours later, the Sheriff was there, and Nancy, the clerk at the store then gets this crazy look on her face like she's horrified, she backs up into the wall, puts her arms out and screams at the top of her lungs, Ahhhk, It's the crazy man from Baxter, God Help us all. Then she starts laughing her arse off along with everybody else in the store, including the Sheriff... The guy had actually gone down there with his kids, called 911 and the Sheriff came out and told him that it would be best if he didn't show up in these parts ever again. He let them off with a warning and told them they had been trespassing and that he knew exactly who the guy was that he and his family had messed with...
The Sheriff looked at me and asked, "Did you really start shooting snow out of the tree's on them?", and everyone in the store started laughing including him. The poor little citiot got no mercy from anyone on our mountain and to top it off, got himself ran out of town

 

[geolover]

What I want from the community is to get it right, meaning that I thoroughly understand. You say it's still illegal and I'm guilty. No, I'm not (according to the law). I'm simply hiking around on open land. Get caught, doing what? It's more about legality and knowledge. Wow! I probably come across as a egotistical jerk, sorry I really just want to get it right so I research and question.

 

[geolover]

Don't understand the connection between your stories and my post. And yes, If I were told by someone that I was trespassing, I would get out. My objective isn't to challenge the law just understand and abde by it. To ignore a notice or warning could easily lead to a misdemenor charge of trespass.

 

[Jason in Enid]

This is very simple. If it's private property, and you don't own it, STAY OUT.

 

[Asmbandits]

What I want from the community is to get it right, meaning that I thoroughly understand. You say it's still illegal and I'm guilty. No, I'm not (according to the law). I'm simply hiking around on open land. Get caught, doing what? It's more about legality and knowledge. Wow! I probably come across as a egotistical jerk, sorry I really just want to get it right so I research and question.

Hiking on open land and hiking on private property are two completely different things. It might be beneficial for you to down play the scenario but it doesn't change the fact that its trespass. If its land owned by someone else and you are on it without permission its trespassing, what conspires from that as in consequence is up to the land owner and or the law not you. Sure what you posted holds validity, hopefully you can use it in your defense during your trial if caught trespassing.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Don't understand the connection between your stories and my post. And yes, If I were told by someone that I was trespassing, I would get out. My objective isn't to challenge the law just understand and abde by it. To ignore a notice or warning could easily lead to a misdemenor charge of trespass.

Every now and again I remember and want to tell and old story, this is one of my best memories of trespass and it did happen. It's now here for everyone to read and enjoy. I actually wrote it up years ago for the Ashworth forum but rewrote for this one. It doesn't have anything to do with you But it does have everything to do with handling trespassers. I still remember his son, about 6 years old, pleading with me not to kill his daddy... "Please don't kill my daddy...etc." It really was a traumatic moment in my life, I felt sorry for the kids but their dad kept pushing back and needed a lesson. Once again it really has nothing to do with your learning, I just added a bit to your learning though on just how far the law goes to protect trespassers. The law and the Sheriff knew me well and I wasn't the one breaking it... Even though I was really stretching it by shooting snow out of the trees. When I had emptied the 3 clips of 18 rounds from the 9mm, I brought out the 30.06 for accuracy. There were probably 50 cars and a couple hundred people playing in the snow in the parking area outside my gate when I started. There were no cars, and no people, when I was finished.

 

[SeabeeRon]

You have posted yourself that it is illegal as copied below from your original post starting this thread...

Here is the legal definition of trespass (at the infraction level): California Penal Code Section 602.8 (a) Any person who without the written permission of the landowner, the owner's agent, or the person in lawful possession of the land, willfully enters any lands under cultivation or enclosed by fence, belonging to, or occupied by, another, or who willfully enters upon uncultivated or unenclosed lands where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering the lands, is guilty of a public offense.

If you don't own the land and it is not public land, pure and simple you are trespassing!

 

[Jeff95531]

And if you don't like the keep out sign, ask for permission and get the ok in writing. Done.

 

[geolover]

Legally though?

 

[ratled]

So there was no sign on the mine shaft saying Keep Out... but somebody saw you and told you that you were trespassing, maybe listening would be a good idea. Sounds like you need to take a new route and stop wanting to trespass where ever you feel like going.

Here's some typical cidiot mentality of what happened up here a few years back. A guy and his family crossed my fence and were eating in front of my old log house. My family and I watched them and it was no big deal, so I let them eat here in my front yard. Then they started looking in the windows of my guest house and then the dad walked into my garage and took some of my kids toys after building a snowman out front. Basically he filled his kids arms with my kids toys. So I went out and told him to put the toys back and he responded that they were just laying in the woods. I told him that these were my woods and that he was in my garage. He had his daughter and son with him and was teaching them how to steal. He then had the blatancy to say to me, "Nobody own's the woods..." And then another dumb citiot found out the hard way. I pulled out my 9mm, put 3 rounds into their snow man in front of his kids, went over and crushed it. I stomped it till it was dead, his kids were in tears. Then, I ordered him to put the toys back into my garage and asked him if he thought that it would be ok if his kids watched him die... As he was walking away, I told him that I was going to be there at his house tomorrow with my family and that we were going to bbq on his lawn tomorrow... and then he went off, told me that he would call the police, that I would be trespassing. I shrugged my shoulders, said that's what you were doing to me and turnabout's fair play, see you tomorrow. Then as they walked away I started shooting the branches in the trees above them and dropping snow on them. They started running in terror as fast as they could, disappeared after climbing back through my fence that was clearly marked, "No Trespassing", and I never saw them again.

So I walked into the Alta store a couple hours later, the Sheriff was there, and Nancy, the clerk at the store then gets this crazy look on her face like she's horrified, she backs up into the wall, puts her arms out and screams at the top of her lungs, Ahhhk, It's the crazy man from Baxter, God Help us all. Then she starts laughing her arse off along with everybody else in the store, including the Sheriff... The guy had actually gone down there with his kids, called 911 and the Sheriff came out and told him that it would be best if he didn't show up in these parts ever again. He let them off with a warning and told them they had been trespassing and that he knew exactly who the guy was that he and his family had messed with...
The Sheriff looked at me and asked, "Did you really start shooting snow out of the tree's on them?", and everyone in the store started laughing including him. The poor little citiot got no mercy from anyone on our mountain and to top it off, got himself ran out of town

No really I want to see elbows and the soles of birkenstocks!
ratled

 

[geolover]

I like your style!

 

[geolover]

where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering the lands, is guilty of a public offense.

 

[SeabeeRon]

where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering the lands, is guilty of a public offense.

So, are you saying at the location you went to there were no signs posted as outlined above? But you knew it was Private Property??

 

[geolover]

willfully enters any lands under cultivation or enclosed by fence, belonging to, or occupied by, another, Not inclosed by fence or being cultivated, (which) belong to another.

where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering the lands, is guilty of a public offense.